Revisiting Jaques Vallée - Beyond the Control Loop

originally posted by: klassless

originally posted by: Peeple
*disclaimer: written on tablet, excuse the unusual presentation*

I am pretty sure most of you know Jacques Vallée, lately he's been a lot on my mind and I think he already gave us the answer to the question what the UFO phenomenon really is. But please note this is a presentation of my own conjecture.
snip

NO ONE knows anything more about UFOs than what is found in the public record.

What an obviously incorrect statement. This guy has a problem with logic.
His contention is that every UFO sighting is in the public record.
An unsupportable claim.

The vast majority of witnesses never report their UFO sighting or abduction encounters, so how is it in the public record?

a reply to: mirageman

Oh be wary of the Zika virus. Those aliens could be working on not just abducting but infecting as well.

I thank you for the heads-up. I will now wear bug spray with my tin-foil helmet.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Says the man who believes in winged frog lizards... but I am out there for saying, it's really advanced technology but ours from the future.
Our perception is very fragile. Hackable, manipulatable, think about hypnosis, these will one day go wifi, we are on our way. The activities of the "aliens" makes sense if you think about them as gardeners, farmers, biological engineers.
I mean what do we really know what politicians are actually doing? Or how it is to be an ant, wale, dog, plant, ....
But at some point you have to make a decision, I am not there yet, I feel I don't know enough, but us manipulating the past through "disturbance of the force", holographic drones/robots and stimulating the right brainparts, could be, right? I would tell myself if I would invent time travelling.
Who knows, maybe people back then would tell a very different story than what we think we know about interaction of the past? Jesus, Noah, the fallen angels, the Egyptian gods, who knows what the author really was thinking?

a reply to: billydebunker

Stop talking about other people. That's your problem, play nice and if you can't focus on the subject. You're not doing your argument a favour if you constantly bitch.

Ready to read, if you can keep it objective. Can you?

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Great Post, brother! Testify! Sh*t just got real, yo!

Here's the bold face bull-fertilizer that really cracks me up:

"Five specific arguments articulated here (Journal of Scientific Exploration 1990) contradict the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis) 1. unexplained close encounters far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth 2. the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel 3. the reported behaviour in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race 4. the extension of the phenomenon throughput recorded human history demonstrates that UFO are not a contemporary phenomenon 5. the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives"

1. Who said the ETH has anything to do with a "physical survey"? Let alone be limited to it?
So this entire list starts with pure manure, not "Scientific Exploration" by any stretch of the term.
And I agree that it is so frequent that it looks a lot more like an invasion and colonization than it does a "survey".

2.Based on what exactly? Why not? What makes them experts on intelligent life on other planets? And what form of space travel are they talking about? The Space Shuttle? A tie fighter? What do they know about these alien ships? Absurd declarations without support.

3. Hogwash. Abduction reports almost universally detail a genetic reproductive program. It's almost like these 'experts' never read a single abduction report. This appears more and more to be a work of pure disinformation.

4. Again, so undeniably incorrect it seems to be the writing of a child. If abduction encounters are happening NOW, guess what, that means it is indeed a CONTEMPORARY phenomenon. The "scientist" who wrote this should be ashamed of his sloppy work. Perhaps he meant to say it was not ONLY a contemporary phenomenon, but if that is the case he should have said that. He didn't.

5. According to what, Doctor Strange comic books? So beings who can manipulate time and space can't come from planets? I manipulate space every time I go somewhere, what exactly are they trying to say?
More importantly, somebody ought to tell this genius that time dilation projects at major universities are not without successes. Right here on a planet, of all places.

Anybody taking this bunk seriously deserves to understand as little as they do.

a reply to: billydebunker

Good point, even we are talking about how we have to manipulate spacetime if we want to do meaningful exploration.
But if they'd come from far away, why do they care? What's their agenda then? Wouldn't it be better, if they'd be from here?
Where do you stand on ancient aliens?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: billydebunker

Stop talking about other people. That's your problem, play nice and if you can't focus on the subject. You're not doing your argument a favour if you constantly bitch.

Ready to read, if you can keep it objective. Can you?

Stop telling me what to do, thanks. I'm doing just fine making my points. Pip pip cheerio, eh wot?

a reply to: billydebunker

Just answer my questions, you childish little f*ck.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: billydebunker

Good point, even we are talking about how we have to manipulate spacetime if we want to do meaningful exploration.
But if they'd come from far away, why do they care? What's their agenda then? Wouldn't it be better, if they'd be from here?
Where do you stand on ancient aliens?

Now this is a much better post, and it is very welcome. You ask some terrific questions.

I don't really have a strong opinion of the ancient alien question. I'm far more concerned with the beings that came into my house.

I do think we have to remember that there are encounters with dozens of radically different species of "aliens", with very different agendas, even though we are currently discussing primarily the Grey-related abduction phenomenon. If it turned out that an alien race or two, or three, played a big role in human development, that would make a lot of sense to me. I don't see a lot of dissimilarity between Ezekiel and a contemporary UFO witness. But that sort of knowledge is way above my pay grade, and I don't like to guess. I try to stick to what I actually know when it comes to UFOs.

My only point of contention is that I encountered physical beings in a metallic, physical craft.
Now, these beings did not tell me much about themselves, any more than a veterinarian tells a dog he's treating about his hometown. I think that analogy fits the nature of our relationship. My only useful information comes from what happened, what I saw, what they say, and what they do.

From that It seems clear that they are occupying the Earth and through generations of systematic hybridization, creating a physical body that looks perfectly human yet has the mental ability to control and manipulate human beings. The end goal appears to be replacing the human race or enslaving it. It is really a brilliant plan, the seamless take-over of a developed planet without a shot fired, or a single casualty on their part. And it is working perfectly. They are stealing the Earth from us and forcing us rapidly into extinction. And we cannot even slow them down. That's why there will never be a disclosure from the government.

a reply to: billydebunker

You think the government just knows, or are they collaborating?

a reply to: Gianfar

Vallée interprets this high strangeness case as an intelligently manufactured illusion, simply because he sees it as purely irrational that real ETs would do such a thing. Vallée's fundamental flaw of assuming that non-human beings would behave as we do is quite astonishing and should be obvious to any intellectual thinker capable of double checking his own assumptions.

Great post, So well written and informative. Vallee fails as a scientist and a Ufologist. Why waste time talking about him, unless as a way to deliberately avoid meaningful discussion of the very real and physical alien abduction crisis.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: billydebunker

You think the government just knows, or are they collaborating?

Good question, I just don't know. I just don't like to guess, your opinion is as valid as mine.

From what I know of human beings, I would imagine they are doing everything they can to protect us and trying to find a way to fight back.

What is your opinion?

a reply to: billydebunker

Of course, there might be even more possibilities.
You only take it serious if you can acknowledge it's real, most have to experience to believe.
All I'm wondering about your stories is how you can be so sure what they are? Do you remember so much and so clear? Did you touch them?

You added a question.
My opinion? I wish I had one! There are reports of physical traces, radiation for example. But I don't know. If I hypnotise you I can do a lot of fancy stuff.
What if they're like parasites? We are too. But I strongly feel there is a deeper connection. And the reports of it are the problem. You compare to what you know.
Ghosts are reported to go with electro magnetic fields, if I remember correct. UFO goes with radiation. They could be the same but on a different scale.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: billydebunker

Of course, there might be even more possibilities.
You only take it serious if you can acknowledge it's real, most have to experience to believe.
All I'm wondering about your stories is how you can be so sure what they are? Do you remember so much and so clear? Did you touch them?

You added a question.
My opinion? I wish I had one! There are reports of physical traces, radiation for example. But I don't know. If I hypnotise you I can do a lot of fancy stuff.
What if they're like parasites? We are too. But I strongly feel there is a deeper connection. And the reports of it are the problem. You compare to what you know.
Ghosts are reported to go with electro magnetic fields, if I remember correct. UFO goes with radiation. They could be the same but on a different scale.

Another great post! To answer your question, yes, they did physically put their hands on me, and they were hands with jointed fingers. I couldn't touch them, they control your actions before they even get close to you.

Tell me how radiation poisoning is a product of hypnosis? We both know that is not likely the case.

How about this, just one sentence to prove Vallee wrong once and for all, and to cut simply through this Gordian knot in one swing of the sword:

If these are mental projections and not metallic, physical ships, then how the hell can you take pictures of them?

Sorry Jacque.

a reply to: billydebunker

No that's not what I meant, you can have both you know, I can make you look like a bag of potatoes to people around you. They would try to put you in the cellar, while you think aliens attack.

a reply to: billydebunker

Another great post! To answer your question, yes, they did physically put their hands on me, and they were hands with jointed fingers. I couldn't touch them, they control your actions before they even get close to you.

So did they leave any marks? Did they tear your clothing or step on something on the floor, crushing it?

Tell me how radiation poisoning is a product of hypnosis? We both know that is not likely the case.

You got radiation poisoning? Do you have a note from the doctor to prove this?

How about this, just one sentence to prove Vallee wrong once and for all, and to cut simply through this Gordian knot in one swing of the sword:

If these are mental projections and not metallic, physical ships, then how the hell can you take pictures of them?

You took a picture of them? Please post it![/sarcasm]

You are repeating claims other people have made as though you experienced them yourself. Having had an experience, you have sought out reports that confirm your interpretation.

a reply to: billydebunker

Tell me how radiation poisoning is a product of hypnosis? We both know that is not likely the case.

Believing or the false memory you had radiation poising certainly would be. hypnosis is not your friend in this case.

Jacques Vallee can explain this related phenomenon:



Can the ET hypothesis explain it?

a reply to: billydebunker

That aside, there are over three thousand physical trace sightings of UFOs, do some homework on the issue.

When people throw around numbers like this and tell you to "look it up", its usually bullcrap. Its easy enough to supply a link to shut everyone up.

Some people would rather tear down ideas, than consider them.