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Revisiting Jaques Vallée - Beyond the Control Loop

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posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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There's little to be said in response to ch1n1t0 angry post to me. I rarely see posts more insulting, or more condescending.

Your insistence that my experiences didn't happen or that I'm incapable of accurately discussing them is ludicrous, almost megalomaniacal. I'm corroborated by thousands of people with the same experience. Frankly, I'm a little concerned for public safety that a person who is adamant that he cannot distinguish if his perception is real might get behind the wheel of a car.
..."find in the area of the mind/brain/consciousness, in order to understand how little "you" is really you. The unconscious is at play every single moment of your existence, and it's a tad bit funny that you don't even realize it."

A tad bit funny? I'm a tad bit scared that a person who believes this might be on the road with the rest of us.

It is not an act of "egocentric anger" to discuss one's experiences with conviction. Rather it is you "stomping your feet in tears of egocentric anger" to think you're in a position to pretend another's experiences didn't happen. "Take a minute and reflect on that", in your words.

And you might just have your "BS detector" pointed the wrong way, you may be holding it backwards, because you've set mine off too.

"I'll be dead honest. Which month of your UFOlogy career is this? 3rd? And if you say anything above 1 year, well... I'd just fly away from this thread silently." Well, remember you promised. I'll be dead honest, too. I first discussed the alien abduction situation on national televison in 1998.

Bye now, let's see if you are a man of your word.
edit on 3-10-2016 by billydebunker because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-10-2016 by billydebunker because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: Peeple

Hi Peeps,

Just a couple questions about your theory.

1) How long has this satellite been in orbit? One might argue that Neanderthal may have witnessed "UAPs". Has that thing been in orbit that long?

2) What would that thing be accomplishing for say 30,000 years? If it is intended to stop future extinction, it seems to be mighty patient (and apparently ineffectual). The Neanderthals would certainly agree.

3) You do know that myriad control loops exist in nature right? Multitudes of them actually....the ph balance in our bodies..the sodium/potassium balan e across neurons to name just two. Without control loops we wouldn't exist.

But to answer your challenge..when Dr. Vallee came to my house for dinner..we discussed his retrograde satellite experience in 1961.

It was my opinion that it was an Early Russian satellite test. Dr. Vallee did not agree.

However in all honesty, there was a "retrograde element" to my own BTUFO "experience" so that was rather ironic!

You aren't a Black Knight satellite fancier are you my friend are you?

Best,

Kev


edit on 3-10-2016 by KellyPrettyBear because: Omitted the word "fancier"



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: billydebunker
There's little to be said in response to ch1n1t0 angry post to me. I rarely see posts more insulting, or more condescending.

Mirror mirror.


A tad bit funny? I'm a tad bit scared that a person who believes this might be on the road with the rest of us.

Then I'd suggest picking up on 21st century science discoveries related to the way the mind works (and ways it can be deceived). If I remember correctly, I think "Through The Wormhole" had an episode about how little you and every one of us really control of your daily life. You'd be amazed to discover how many scientists you should fear of driving you over, including guys who have scaled down the yard-sized machine to a laptop so you could intentionally (imo) cause thread drift in one of the more info-thick threads in quite awhile.


I first discussed the alien abduction situation on national televison in 1998.

Says much more about you than it does about me, given the context of this thread and the amount of "useful" ill-mannered contributions coming from your end.


Bye now, let's see if you are a man of your word.

I'll keep my word, as long as thread drifting stops being a burden and I continue enjoying this, otherwise, well-mannered and thought provoking thread. Also, I meant it as I would contain myself from comment as you'd appear even more ridiculous if you had more than an year experience. Not that I would assume you are right due to your long "career", it's just that such wouldn't be talking good about you, as previously noted.

p.s. for the record, some of us (I will repeat) do NOT discard you experienced something, it's only that you fit this experience of yours into a box while this thread's purpose is partially to fight with the built up alien paradigm and replace it with fresh, out-of-the-box questions. The questions we need to be asking.

With that said, I don't trust your senses. And neither should you.

*flies away and leaves behind interdimensional fairy dust for this thread to re-prosper*
edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey KPB,

Glad to crash into you in a thread. I've been thinking about your case for awhile now. Can't help but ask the question - there's something about those rivets you mentioned... Do you have a favorite book/movie from your childhood that's Sci-Fi related (not alien/UAP related)? And if you could dig back in your memories - do you happen to recall any illustrations involving devices with rivets that might be an "inspiration"?

Thinking about the "feedback" points of a control loop when I'm asking this question.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hi Kev! Wonderful you stop by!
1) well that's everyones guess I would say, maybe since forever.
2) could be it has to be patient if it messes with the course of things too much the effects would be crass in the future, which brings the Mandela Effect to mind, think of it what you will. Maybe it's just there to speed things up in a 3h/100year ratio or something?
3) I just was referring to the cultural/ misinformation loops.

Psst, yes I am, I know that sets me up for ridicule, but my AI is riding on the Black Knight satellite.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:19 AM
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originally posted by: ch1n1t0

originally posted by: billydebunker
There's little to be said in response to ch1n1t0 angry post to me. I rarely see posts more insulting, or more condescending.

Mirror mirror.


A tad bit funny? I'm a tad bit scared that a person who believes this might be on the road with the rest of us.

Then I'd suggest picking up on 21st century science discoveries related to the way the mind works (and ways it can be deceived). If I remember correctly, I think "Through The Wormhole" had an episode about how little you and every one of us really control of your daily life. You'd be amazed to discover how many scientists you should fear of driving you over, including guys who have scaled down the yard-sized machine to a laptop so you could intentionally (imo) cause thread drift in one of the more info-thick threads in quite awhile.


I first discussed the alien abduction situation on national televison in 1998.

Says much more about you than it does about me, given the context of this thread and the amount of "useful" ill-mannered contributions coming from your end.


Bye now, let's see if you are a man of your word.

I'll keep my word, as long as thread drifting stops being a burden and I continue enjoying this, otherwise, well-mannered and thought provoking thread.

p.s. for the record, some of us (I will repeat) do NOT discard you experienced something, it's only that you fit this experience of yours into a box while this thread's purpose is partially to fight with the built up alien paradigm and replace it with fresh, out-of-the-box questions. The questions we need to be asking.

With that said, I don't trust your senses. And neither should you.

*flies away and leaves behind interdimensional fairy dust for this thread to re-prosper*


As I suspected, you are not a man of your word.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Psst, yes I am, I know that sets me up for ridicule, but my AI is riding on the Black Knight satellite.


Kubrick was right all along!



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

If you're referring to 2001: A Space Odyssey, that's Arthur C. Clarke. But yes.

Funny if you think about it, as they both got rumours connected to them as being knee-deep in NASA conspiracies.
edit on 4-10-2016 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:33 AM
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Peeple, a brief moment to thank you for the neat initiative, been mostly loving it so far. (Oh, and there's no Mandela Effect, think of it what you will lol, we wouldn't know if there was one to start with)

I'll jump on the fringe and will remind us that we still don't know what accounts for 96% of the mass of the Universe and call that dark matter (and as a fellow ATS member mentioned "What's mass in the first place?").

Scary thought, I know, but it is there, measurable like the wind is, whatever it is... I also doubt we'd ever build up a concept that the average Joe would be able to wrap his head around fully at what hides beyond our senses. Probably something that even the brightest minds would struggle with, too.
edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:34 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ch1n1t0

If you're referring to 2001: A Space Odyssey, that's Arthur C. Clarke. But yes.

I stand shamefully corrected. But Kubrick's take on it is brilliant. Therefore Aliens!




p.s. Kubrick has always seemed a bit... in the loop to me.. so am not surprised.
edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

I agree with the dark matter thing, there is something there we can't perceive and that's proof of it, could be spots where the dimensional membranes pull on eachother? Which would be super exciting, but how do you build something that can withstand the extreme gravity? And would quantum entanglement communication work to send information back to us?
And for the ME, people are experiencing it, if we say abductions, time loss, etc are real for the experiencer, why shouldn't we take the information shift equally serious?
Especially one guy here on ATS has pretty much convinced me, as he's honest and smart and I do believe him.

Holographic drones! That's what we need!
edit on 4-10-2016 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 01:08 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

My problem with ME is that if something like that happened, I don't think we would know, or that we would even survive such a thing (if possible). We could only guess. But I can tell you that - the last thing that I'd take as a sign or proof for such a time shift would be a few misspelled words/names that are very prone to being misspelled by default.

Not that long ago I was thinking about this (a bit silly if you ask me, but I'll admit it) - what if what matters is the worldview you built around you? What if that is what dictates reality and there really are multiple realities?

And it seemed a luring thought for awhile. But when we get down to Earth and look at it on a practical level, it's not actually how it works. We people generally tend to feel special, tend to refer to ourselves as "me", when that's all misconception. So is the soul (as Kev would agree wholeheartedly).

I liked the quote from Terrence McKenna and I think they can very much apply to the current conversation.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 01:42 AM
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To correct a few points here, "2001: A Space Odyssey" was co-written By Stanley Kubrick and Arthur C. Clarke. It was written by them both as a movie. It was only after filming was already underway that Clarke began the novelization on his own. Clarke changed the story markedly, diverging very far from the story as Kubrick had written it, so much so that Kubrick insisted his name be taken off the book. When asked about the book, Kubrick stated that the book was not the story he was telling in his film.

By some accounts, the film was about false flag operations and mind control through media manipulation, and that there is a ruling elite that control the rest of us.

What is the real meaning behind the monolith?
Turn your head sideways and look at it, like the caveman did. Grey, dark, satiny.
It is the exact proportions and dimensions, the exact color and texture, of a theater movie screen.
The elite's weapon of choice for controlling the minds of the American public.

Seriously, enjoy this link. It is fascinatingly informative, and gives a much deeper respect for the brilliance of Stanley Kubrick. Who, by the way, was dead just a few days after finishing his expose on the Illuminati, Eyes Wide Shut.

2001.a-false-flag-odyssey.com...

Happy reading!
edit on 4-10-2016 by billydebunker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: billydebunker

Interesting, huh? How it's all about deception? Thank gawd you're immune to that... silly Billy.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 02:06 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: billydebunker

Interesting, huh? How it's all about deception? Thank gawd you're immune to that... silly Billy.


Name calling now? Isn't that better left to children? Or is it past your bedtime?



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: ch1n1t0

I won't attempt to defend or explain what it is. Others have done much more research and it would go off-topic.
The McKenna quote invites us to search for the core information.
What is it doing to me, how does it effect me, how am I Influenced? What it surely does is making one ask the question:
What the f* is going on?
And that's true for pretty much all woo-things. I mean we're collectively doubting reality, aren't we?



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 02:17 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Don't feed, they thrive on it. We were just starting to get back on a healthy track. If thread drift continues, I'd suggest use report option to its fullest, I know I'm about to.

Now, I'm completely aware that the simulation theory might just be a byproduct of our current IT era and us trying to explain things with our current vocabulary (same as when old men thought gods were farting when thunder was heard). However! Dark matter. The problem for most scientists in regards to the Universe being a simulation/computational in nature, is the amount of resources required to run such an "equation". Well, how much was dark matter, 96%?

This is wild speculation and is almost certainly not true at it's whole BUT - what if dark matter is the hardware that's running the software, the Universe? You know, they already encode digital information into DNA, so heck, it really seems it's all about information and the byproducts of information exchange (think cause-consequence relations). Now, this would tie in interestingly with Vallee's observations on UAP, don't ya think? Also, if even close to true - a very sad thing for most frail humans in terms of implications.

So I guess abduction is not as close to abduction, as it is close to hacking, keeping these references in mind.

Also, as you said it - ME is a totally different topic, lets lay it aside. Not the place (this thread), and also, not the person to debate this with (me). I'll say that I agree to disagree and enjoy letting people live and let live.


edit on 4-10-2016 by ch1n1t0 because: (no reason given)

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posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 04:55 AM
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a reply to: Peeple


Psst, yes I am, I know that sets me up for ridicule, but my AI is riding on the Black Knight satellite.


The Black Knight Satellite is an excellent example of how "alien technology" looks suspiciously like what our own technology might look like a few years later! Few engineers seemed to understand that there would be no point to "hitching a ride" on a small natural satellite; the energy required to reach it was the same as putting something into that orbit in the first place. It is also an example of the way a mistaken interpretation of an experience, in this case an astronomical observation, has a way of becoming a self perpetuating belief that hinders understanding. More here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: Peeple
Oh I agree (and I believe he would too) that hypnotic regression is not so reliable, as in a highly suggestible state one can be coerced to say/believe anything. But it is also seemingly true that the unconscious mind records everything that is missed by the conscious state, and sans leading questions, one might uncover missing information.

Hypnotism itself is certainly a real phenomenon. Scientific inquiry into it is also not recent, as he has shown me books from the 1800s performing controlled tests. He has demonstrated that whatever happens to the subject appears to them to be completely real - the human mind filling in any missing sensory input, including hallucinations, sounds, physical touch.

And you can make people do things against their will. Or more accurately, as he put it, you can't make people do things against their will - but you can convince them that what they are doing is something they desire to. It is a loophole of sorts. And a very creepy one at that.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

which is why I believe like many others that psychedelic mushrooms are evidence of alien contact
an almost unintrusive way to communicate and get symbiotic access to a human being with access to consciousness

I think aliens are watching us , just to see we arent breaking out into the greater galaxy to cause even more trouble
and then there are those species who are meant to leave us alone according to galactic law but do so anyways for their own gains!

much like local mafia

I think we just need to get our act together and they will let us know where we stand



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