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Revisiting Jaques Vallée - Beyond the Control Loop

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posted on Oct, 11 2016 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

He never published the results insofar as i know.

That's all i can say.

Kev




posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 01:54 PM
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Sometimes things are what they seem to be! These beings seem to be what would traditionally be called spirits. But they also seem like physical beings. If they are spirits from another planet then, the physical form they take would look different from the human form. The confusion in the accounts is because we are looking at the thing on two levels, the physical and the spiritual. And it is happening on both levels, apparently.

In my opinion they are alien spirits that can manifest in physical form.

As for hypnosis, there is no point comparing. These beings clearly have power over their victims. It is more like advanced hypnosis or mind control. There is a great deal of evidence that once these beings have control over their subjects they can make them see what they want them to see.
edit on 12-10-2016 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: EnPassant

Well "scientists" have to hide behind a wall of jargon because its humiliating to say "spirits which can materialize" !!



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Bah... you need some liquor to loosen those lips, sir! You are far too honorable regarding confidential information... and prurient interest in such! I'm guessing Valee's results were positive, though... just a hunch.

And as far as the ensuing comments above, I would think spirit to physical as the origin to most UFOs is a given... just fits...

BUT (drums fingers on desk) it is still very probable that UFOs are a mix of (mostly) spirity beings and hard as nails tech perhaps derived from human brain sweat, ancient stashes and/or those same hypothesized beings... just thought that should be said, again.



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

How did Vallee conduct this feedback experiment?



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: ColdWisdom

If you read Forbidden Science volumes 1-3
You should get a pretty good idea.

He really never goes on the record in private meetings any more than he does in his books.

Kev



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

What do you think about Skinwalker Ranch?

Do you think that security guards were hired in part due to their belief systems?

There was fair turnover and they were "rotated".
I say that they were lab rats...that was their real purpose not to chase away "Ryan"...that was secondary. Part of the "theater".

If i was Bigelow thats what I would have done.

And no, JV never said that or hinted at that.

This is pure Kevin.

You can also use this mindset and apply it to different famous cases....

And to put your mind at ease...i dont know *markedly* more about such subjects than you.

Kev



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I know you weren't asking me Kev. Skinwalker Ranch is always painted as "Paranormal Disneyland" with some great stories but I've never really seen much evidence of anything beyond those stories,

Do you know of anything out there beyond anecdotal evidence?



posted on Oct, 12 2016 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Not one thing as far as i know.

But many people "are utterly convinced" about Skinwalker Ranch with zero personal experience or the slightest proof.

Im betting that just that situation was/continues to be a test....the morphology of internet-meme based stimulation of self-delusion "control loops".

Now....one can read Dean Radin books...one can study the PEAR (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research)....one can read about the "Lawrence Livermore incident" in Vallees books....

But none of that proves anything.

Kev



posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear



But many people "are utterly convinced" about Skinwalker Ranch with zero personal experience or the slightest proof.


Thanks, KPB.

The book Hunt for The Skinwalker, by Knapp and Kelleher, is important to me because it was that book that altered my present course when it comes to all of this stuff.

The book was a travesty. It was so absurdly irresponsible that I actually dropped the whole subject for half or a decade or so until I came to ATS. I could almost say that the book primed me for ATS; Knapp and Kelleher got me started and ATS finished me off over several years.

I'm better now.



Anyhow, I agree with your line of reasoning re: "What Bigelow is up to", because that's the only real research available when it comes to this subject matter: people and their brains.


edit on 13-10-2016 by Dan00 because:




posted on Oct, 13 2016 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: Dan00

Well I'm not saying that the so called "paranormal" doesn't exist. But the mind manipulators distort things 10 layers thick, and then tack on regular personal delusion, and the real phenomenon (if any in a particular case) is so distorted, any instructional value is often lost.

I personally enjoy ATS and such topics, but you have to keep a very firm grip on yourself at all times or the bunny hole swallows you up whole and you descend into madness like so many brave/foolish people do.

Kev



posted on Oct, 14 2016 @ 01:15 AM
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Briefly, and after the Nats loss. This from knowledge in the mil-tech and "defense sciences" background. JV was well ahead of his time but not in on the secrets. He is aa searcher. We seem to have two theories of disturbing (dr Dave jacobs) and benevolent (dr Steve Greer). What Dr JV understood is the complexity which is based on several different phenomena.

Regarding abductions; 1. Muti-generational and occuring for centuries. 2. Not defensible to protect species usless assisted by "friendlies". 3. Paranormal is a misnomer. 4. Trans-dimensional capability is the explanation. 5. Dimension number in excess of 16 based on square roots of pi. 6. Information ( and matter) is transferred interdimensionally into differing energy states based on advanced tech and the ability to tune the resonance or negate resonance. 6. Carbon life forms are conscious and the information caan transfer to silicon. There probably is a universe based on Silicon. Don't believe me? Understand what happens during Carbon decay and look at the element below carbon on the periodic table. 7. Why is this important ?- because the technology that allows ET to transverse spacetime is the ability to store and retrieve matter and info across dimensions. It is technological not magic. 8. Hybridization has and is occuring. 9. Government can not protect the populaation from what has been occuring for tens of thousands of years. 10. The control loop is important because the questions is if the purpose of beneficial evolution or degradation of human species. and yes, abduction is about reproduction. Next specie is Homo Optimus. 11. End goal -? Speculative. 12. Universe is teaming with advanced civilizations which means they are Trans-dimensional and have competing agendas. 13. Bottom line is don't get caught up on this time, dimension thing from the standpoint of something not being from other world's. AI is partial to he program of abduction control loop but I doubt it is our future selves but evolved ET.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 06:44 PM
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On the last page of his last book "Forbidden Science Volume 3", JV disavows the ETH
and mentions that occult factors are definitely involved, but does not go into them.

That's Jacques Vallee!

Kev



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 05:46 AM
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I think it is interesting that we seem to continually run into a few fundamental questions about ourselves and the universe we experience in this thread.

Questions such as:

What are we, anyway? After all, "human beings" is just a label. What is conciousness and where does it spring from?

How can anything be proven to be objectively true when none of us can step beyond the limits of our own perception? And how can we observe our world and our reality when we are forever (seemingly) doomed to observe it from the inside?

These are questions that philosophers struggled with and theorized about for a long time, and I think one of the most interesting points of the whole ufo phenomenon is that is forces us to grapple with how little we really understand.

It is more than a bit humbling to have to admit that our current scientific knowledge about how the universe operates and what it is, is so flimsy that virtually any piece of knowledge can be brought down to either " we do not know" or " because that's how it is" with just a couple of iterations of the humble question "why?"

Try it for yourself, it's great fun..

And I think we as a species/entity/thing/wossname could do well with injecting a little humility into our biochemical processes/conciousness/thoughts/whatsit now and again.

Just my severely limited by own conciousness and perception of reality thoughts.

BT
edit on 17-10-2016 by beetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: beetee

You are correct of course.

Kev



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Oh, I know few people outside of certain circles have any real insights into this!

And as far as Skinflicker Ranch, I only read the first couple articles and missed the big book, thinking nothing of import would be learned... but, it seems like biz as usual in highly strange places, and despite any hype, consciousness is certainly tied in to this (above the point of needing one to witness anything at all).

The idea mentioned above that the aliens are from another "dimension" or "universe" and just have such high tech that we see it as 'magic' is very, very probable , too... but that's what I meant by them being "spirity" anyway.

Either way, thinking we could interpret the actions and tech of such beings is pretty cocky... we have trouble figuring out other people just like us! Another frame of reference so far removed would be hard to grok... heck, recognizing an alien as a living thing might be hard, I'd think.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Well one way or another they are "trying to deceive us" and doing a splendid job of it.

Of course "they" seem to require "our brains" in collusion to do much....

So our own (very actively in use) self-deception participates with "their deception" and our own.

Really its difficult to prove that "other" exists at all....it could theoretically be all on us....with no "other" at all.

Thats the most critical thing to straighten out..what are the boundaries of "us".

And that is the most top secret knowledge of all time...mere "UFOs" and "disclosure" is meaningless in comparison...and is in fact "the real disclosure" and it will not be forthcoming anytime soon.

(If it did happen..all the UFO/supernatural seeming crap would probably cease that instant).

On some level, i truly believe all this melodrama is just a variant form of masturbation.

But what do i know?

("I have seen the enemy and he is us." -Pogo)

Kev



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Another great post, Kev.



Thats the most critical thing to straighten out..what are the boundaries of "us".


We are boundless. Right? That's what anyone that's ever been "in there" ever reports: it's always some variation on, "OMFG. It's huge in there".



On some level, i truly believe all this melodrama is just a variant form of masturbation.


Sure it is. But feel free to run the full gamut of sexual dysfunction. Some of us are pathologically abstinent (a.k.a. sexual anorexia). Or maybe by design.


edit on 17-10-2016 by Dan00 because:




posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: Dan00

Selves are innately bounded.

That is their nature.

To remove bounds is to remove structure.

To remove structure is to transform one thing into another, and that is another name for death.

Mystic oneness is overrated. Most people pull back at the moment of death.

Sorry. Most mystical stuff and religious stuff is misunderstood propaganda.

In my experience.

Kev



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That's almost all true.

And it's also huge in there.



And also "Mystic Oneness" has about nothing to do with realizing how huge it is in there.

Traveling on that trajectory I can imagine how one might become frustrated.

*shrug*





Sorry. Most mystical stuff and religious stuff is misunderstood propaganda.


Uh. Well, Kev. That's not quite true. Only a small amount of it is "propaganda".

I've reminded you of this before: "Mystical stuff" has been in the American idea-grinder for how long???

Don't get sloppy.



Okay. For the sake of conversation: Our boundaries are obviously defined by our technology. Where do you not find us, human beings, immediately present in our technology?

We are boundless.



Hey Kevin? Can something be ugly and beautiful at the same time?

Wadda ya think?
edit on 17-10-2016 by Dan00 because:





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