Revisiting Jaques Vallée - Beyond the Control Loop

*disclaimer: written on tablet, excuse the unusual presentation*

I am pretty sure most of you know Jacques Vallée, lately he's been a lot on my mind and I think he already gave us the answer to the question what the UFO phenomenon really is. But please note this is a presentation of my own conjecture.

1. The man, the genius, the legend

wiki
A retrograde satellite is what made him invest his time in the examination of UFOs.

2. The Findings in a Nutshell
"Five specific arguments articulated here (Journal of Scientific Exploration 1990) contradict the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis)

1. unexplained close encounters far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth

2. the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel

3. the reported behaviour in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race

4. the extension of the phenomenon throughput recorded human history demonstrates that UFO are not a contemporary phenomenon

5. the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives"



3. The Three Main Aspects

ufoevidence
1. tremendous quantity of electromagnetic energy in small volumes
2. perception altered possibly under the influence of microwave radiation
3. the actual "control loop" reports submitted to society, the cultural context



4. My Conclusion

All aspects are an expansion of our own research, we study AI, holograms, the manipulation of time, use drones/robots we create in our image, satellites, subtle manipulation of behaviour ... that's all human invention just taken a few steps further.

What I suggest is basically, the mentioned retrograde satellite is ours and source of the UFO phenomenon, which are holographic "drones"2.0. It is us who sent the AI on board back in time because in the future we face the serious threat of our extinction.
Now we reach the zero point, which could mean various things, scientific breakthrough or the contact moment, but definitely implies the end of superstitious lore like religion and ET and with that the crumbling of the control loop.

Please challenge my opinion, that's how we learn.
But just to maintain a certain quality of discussion, let me remind you, an argument contains a premise, inference and conclusion.
Thank you for your time and in advance your contribution.

a reply to: Peeple

Yummy, about time. Bookmarking, ever since the Guts presentations I have been lapping it all up. This is a subject both frightening and empowering in ways; I have nothing to add, but am a keen cheerleader!

Go Peeple

a reply to: Peeple


You mention one of the most crucial aspects of the UFO story but the sentence seems to contradict itself. Please explain.

"3. the reported behaviour in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race."

Valle later gained a supporter in Allen J. Hynek. Hynek, an astronomer hired by the Air Force to debunk a UFO sighting and creator of the "swamp gas" hypothesis, also wondered if our view of reality was too restricted to accept what the phenomena really represented to us. To this dilemma no one better explained it than the science-fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke with his "Clarke'sLaw ":

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

a reply to: Aliensun

I'll have to go on a limb if I try to explain because it's a quote from Vallée, but my guess would be, that one could assume an advanced race would make it's research less traumatic and intrusive to the subject.
Which to me supports the theory that the one(s) conducting them has no idea what a trauma is, because it's functioning on an unemotional purely logical basis, not biological.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Aliensun

I'll have to go on a limb if I try to explain because it's a quote from Vallée, but my guess would be, that one could assume an advanced race would make it's research less traumatic and intrusive to the subject.
Which to me supports the theory that the one(s) conducting them has no idea what a trauma is, because it's functioning on an unemotional purely logical basis, not biological.

That view, if truly Valle's, has some value and, in fact, probably originates with the first ever widely reported abduction, that of Betty and Barney Hill as she likened the manners of the ETs to Nazis.

As an abductee myself, having followed abduction cases for a long time, I suspect Valle's hunch has some validity. Other contributing factors may be a lack of their ability to completely apply the mind-control technique inherent in virtually every abduction case.

However, I can best refute Valle's rumination on that topic by citing that human history, as late as a few decades ago if not currently, clearly shows that some specific human mindsets have no emotional qualms or barriers on how they tread their fellow humans.

I also will mention that in many abduction reports, the little creatures are evidently of a worker class and the taller beings with the large, dark and deep eyes have the ability to transmit love, compassion and understanding. --Not to say that such projections are true or honest or simply called forth if they think they are needed for the traumatic situation at hand (or claw).

a reply to: Aliensun

They don't need to transmit anything they could simply disrupt the Papez's circuit, cutting of the cingulate gyrus temporarily et voilà you calmly follow them wherever they take you.
My point is more that the human reaction is often not predictable, what you see and experience if someone fries your brain with microwaves is highly subjective and unique because the human psychological make up is not as homogeneous as scientific generalisation would want to assume.
So if humans fed the AI operating those humanoid bots with up to date psychological models, they'd be almost 100% wrong in predicting the subjects reaction on the individual scale.
Because they would have been made from a different cultural context and someone from 2000 bc reacts and perceives it different than someone from 50, 1360, 2016, .... impossible to correctly assume from someone at home in the cultural frame of 3002. Or something processing the data without the capability of actually "feeling" it.

Betty Hill is 1876-1960, that's totally in Nazi/authoritarian period of interaction.

a reply to: Peeple


Your response strays too far from the actuality of the event of an abduction. Two things work against our local logic. First, we have no clue to the extent of how mind control works. Is it mind-to-mind, technologically augmented, or a combination of both. It would seem on the face of the continuing evidence that the ETs have a very good concept of how we operate AND how to control us. To suggest anything short of that is, again, denying the evidence of about every abduction experience.


We simply need to assume that the ETs, whatever they are, wherever they are from, have basically the power of God, or as I suggested in the first reply that it is all magic from the appearance of the ships from somewhere else right down to making me behave other than my intentions.

a reply to: Aliensun

That's true, but ignoring the evidence that while it surely is impressive it's not unfailable. As time progresses the database grows, making the stochastic predictions more precise but still never reaching 100%. You die before your file would be thick enough. And the next one might be similar but not the same.

How well experienced are you in terms of synchronicities? Can you always nail down exactly what triggers were implanted to set you on track? Without missing a single one?

a reply to: Peeple




You stray even more with mentioning synchronicities which may or may not exist outside the mind the mind of the perceiver and have no direct connection to UFOs.

I'm done.

a reply to: Aliensun

You started with mind control and if I adress it you are done? Sorry if I am not telling you what you want to hear, but it's all connected and most of it, even your precious abduction, mostly happens in your mind.

Oh and btw nothing and no one can make you act against your intentions, that's an established fact we know from hypnosis. The stories you tell yourself about small greys and tall whites are part of the control loop, i.e. cultural bias and phantasy.

The eternal battle rages on. Like that song of AC/DC, "who made who". Did we made aliens or aliens made us?! History clearly shows that man is master of his demons, which in some cases could turn for bad and possess him. But in the late 50s, when TVs started to appear and churches become obsolete it was a time where our demons become equal to man. We called them with names and even created a whole lore for them, just next to the elves and the tricky dwarves. The AESIR had to meet the Ice Giants in the final battle. The cold-eyed alien. And ragnarok would follow, unless a kid, with name spelled Frodo, returns the ruling ring back to the oblivion where it was forged. Yet who is to protect this bear foot fellow? The alien would rapture him, and he'll never dream again the rabbit hole. "Run, you fools...!", the wise man said, with his last breath. The demon shall be slaughtered!

a reply to: Argentbenign

I thought it was fly you fools, I thought he was alluding to the eagles hahaha.

a reply to: Peeple

In a nutshell, the ET hypothesis is simplistic and does not take the bewildering variety of experiences into account. I have always thought that Ufology has hobbled itself by treating all UFO reports as being examples of a single phenomenon. In fact, there is a large overlap with other phenomena, both objective and psychological. Vallee was one of the first to understand this.

a reply to: Peeple

I wont challenge your opinion....but tend to agree with it. I havent read Valee in awhile, but have some of his books on the shelf.

Thanks for reminding me to re-read them!

My beliefs somewhat mirror Vallee's on UFO's. So in general terms I have not much in the way of challenges to your theory.

I actually got to hear Vallee speak at a kind of new-agey psychic fair deal at a local college back in the late 70's and bought Invisible College around that time. I had almost forgotten Vallee, then read Hunt for the Skinwalker, where the sometimes absurd reported activity brought me full circle. The extraterrestrial theory is (to me) a simplistic explanation of a complex phenomena, similar to how in remote areas of the world there are cargo cults. We had/have no other explanation so it must be aliens from other planets, since they fly in the sky, right?

a reply to: Peeple
Interesting. I have always found it significant how Vallee started out as a believer but changed mindset alongside the evidence. That is how science should work.

I am unsure what to believe of the UFO phenomenon but I sincerely doubt it is alien related (or, at the very least, not solely so). One of my closest friends is a psychologist who claims to have seen many and he believes it is somehow a psychological phenomenon, and he also talks about how the imagery has evolved with society. He would strongly disagree with you about hypnosis, however.

a reply to: SargonThrall

Really explain the hypnosis bit, please? All I know about it is not really scientific as they're just starting to investigate it. It doesn't work with me. And well what you catch on the ride, suggestions make it unreliable for fact gathering around the abduction phenomenon and I always hit the "screw you" wall.

Interesting article if you like to know where I am coming from mindfulness meditation and hypnotisability

I've always loved reading Vallee. I believe there are a few different explanations for anomalous sightings. Some are physical nuts and bolts craft, some are ours, some may be interdimensional bleed throughs, and some are space animals. Depending on what is sighted.

a reply to: Peeple

Thanks, Peeple, your post on this is well written and elucidated, and I appreciate that. However, there are, perhaps, more possibilities in conjecture from your research per that which you drew, already.
Such as, this, could mean something else entirely:

Now we reach the zero point, which could mean various things, scientific breakthrough or the contact moment, but definitely implies the end of superstitious lore like religion and ET and with that the crumbling of the control loop.

Just because the MILAB (military abduction, pov), represents a wish to politically do away with religions, as they've repetitively meant more war, more people dying and more cultures becomes more disparate and separate, does NOT mean, really, there is no G-D, nor true text of His/Her definitive teachings. However, I would err on the side of caution, being truly, every text we have presently is likely just a now more than convoluted result of man's interpretation and man's influence..... However, that doesn't mean God didn't speak to Moses, or in fact, someone else, divinely inspired to take an oral story/history down. But that has long been polluted and over edited now, for other purposes that G-d's obviously, so we can hardly trust that.

But more what I am thinking, is what your research shows more than anything is none of us can trust what we would have previously called "empirical" evidence, and therefore, would have trusted it more than anything (say, gut instincts, for instance) any longer: therefore, what we see, report, experience, report, feel, see and experience, and then: yes, report, is no longer the empirical enth degree of evidentiary anything: for we can probably be made to see, feel, hear, experience almost anything, which would totally set "empirical" in definitive terms, on its ear (forgive the almost pun), and then we'd have to begin to consider we may not know almost anything, if our senses that we use to judge are that manipulatable and malleable.

Scary thought, isn't it. I argue this point constantly, and see the best minds alienated from my rather scientific mind, based on just that I argued with that one singular thing. Because that turns everything sideways, potentially, and that being the case, is quite uncomfortable to believe: for if it were so, then how do we negotiate, initiate, be interpretative of our investigative "proofs," or move forward to some other perceived paradigm from there, the last perceived paradigm.

Having said that, Peeple, I think the other option you've neglected to mention is that this doesn't crumble Mr. Vallee's Control System Theory, at all, but rather, uniquely, reinforces it, and makes us feel even more a lack of understanding of the complexities of the issue, plus a lack of control, which is what the control system theory and the control loop represent....that ultimately, we have no control, true understanding, interpretation or understanding, and we are rats running on a predictive wheel. Ergo, the control loop.

Everything points to it, much as everything in us as humans, wishes to reject it.
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

Hey Peeps, nice thread.

And hi Tets. Yes... agreed. Or to put it more succinctly, all signs point to Fort's final consideration.. .we are property. (eta and all information fed to humans is potentially untrustworthy, being heads in vats, essentially).

Who's property and why are good questions, though... and it might be an ever enlarging set of controllers, with another level always pulling strings from the next level up (or down)... along with a mix of totally mundane (and perhaps not so) periphery players, as always.

But wow... this life is weird enough without some magicians behind the scenes goofing around.

My prescription is to treat this life as a temporary carnival ride... don't take it so seriously (to people in general, not you) and see you at the Village Inn afterwards.

That "it's all just stuff to entertain us" mind set works if it's a one time deal or a ride, either way.. .and it doesn't mean we can't investigate it... it's just ...er ...protective.