Zapreuder Film

In the next 2 frames you can see where his hand goes back down, and the reflection lessens...







I really don't see a gun...sorry...

The actual head shot occured a split-second before Zupruder Frame 313. The precise moment of impact was not captured on that film.

Originally posted by Westy

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
If that is the perfect frame you are talking about, it shows the dude in the shotgun seat's hand going to his left ear...

Which is precisely what he (Kellerman) was doing. He was on his radio, which has been thoroughly documented.

Great observation, btw.

Sorry I missed your post, yes you are correct, that's what he was doing...

NOW do you see the passanger's face look towards his chin area then look forward, do you see the "white" image? that "white" image is the sleeve of the driver his gun is in his hand.

oh my god i ve seen it too. download the gif and watch it in the windows picture viewer enlarged, looks really like the driver shoots.......but it is only the reflection of the head, because if it were not where would his head have gone???



[edit on 26-1-2005 by feyd rautha]

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
NOW do you see the passanger's face look towards his chin area then look forward, do you see the "white" image? that "white" image is the sleeve of the driver his gun is in his hand.

No...I don't...

Point to what you are seeing...

Because I don't see a gun, and unless you people offer some proof ( ie: screen shots, pic's ), this is the last I'm posting in this thread, because I see no proof, only spectulation...

The bigest problem with this theory is that there is no smoke from the gun from the driver, and no visual proof, in the frames...



[edit on 26-1-2005 by Jedi_Master]

1. I beleive it's a special gun so noone can see the smoke 2 it is a black/steal blue gun what the clip from 3:09 to 3:19 in slow motion don't just try and look at the frames, thats the only thing I can suggest.

[edit on 26-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

see if it were a gun it would be in front of the second agents head. sorry tiger this is not possible, i had doubts myself at first the whole movement looked really freaky.



[edit on 26-1-2005 by feyd rautha]

A few names to add to your research list on the JFK assasination...
Dr. Cyril Wecht, Lee Bowers, Ed Hoffman, Gordon Arnold, Beverly Oliver (who had filmed the assasination as well, her film was confiscated and never returned or seen again), Mary Moorman, Abraham Zapruder's secretary, "The Wilsons", "The Newmans", Mayor Cabel (who was responsible for changing the motorcade route), Roger Craig, Guy Bannister, Dave Ferrie, Clay Shaw, just to name a few...

And believe it or not, George Bush.

www.sumeria.net...
A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez....
That is exactly how evidence was uncovered placing George Bush working with Felix Rodriguez when JFK was killed. A memo from FBI head J. Edgar Hoover was found, stating that, "Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. (Source: The Nation, 8/13/88).
On the day of the assassination Bush was in Texas, but he denies knowing exactly where he was. Since he had been the supervisor for the secret Cuban teams, headed by former Cuban police commander Felix Rodriguez, since 1960, it is likely Bush was also in Dallas in 1963. Several of the Cubans he was supervising as dirty-tricks teams for Nixon, were photographed in the Zagruder film.
In 1959 Rodriguez was a top cop in the Cuban government under Batista. When Batista was overthrown and fled to Miami, Rodriguez went with him, along with Frank Sturgis and Rafael Quintero. Officially, Rodriguez didn't join the CIA until 1967, after the CIA invasion of Cuba, in which he participated, and the assassination of JFK. But records recently uncovered show he actually joined the CIA in 1961 for the invasion of Cuba when he was recruited by George Bush. That is how Rodriguez claims he became a "close personal friend of Bush."

www.copvcia.com...
inquirer.gn.apc.org...
www.sumeria.net...

Quite a few points of interest in regards to Mr. Bush...
www.google.com...

Tiger...and your croney...have you finally gotten the message? There is no gun...and if your gun is not the imaginary one created by the passenger's head and yours is black...how the h*ll can you see it in that blackness in the car?

Your claim has been refuted for 40 years as well as by just about everyone on this thread. Move on to something else.....

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the white image you mention as the driver's sleeve is the curb in the back ground of the whol frame...if you look at the whole frame you an see that that "sleeve" is just part of the curb and the reflection of the driver's head is your supposed gun....IT"S OBVIOUSLY NOT A GUN...plus if that curb was the driver's arm...that would have to be a hell of a long fore arm and if it's the length of his arm it would be impossible for him to be in that position....so agin....YOU ARE DEAD WRONG ON THIS ONE AND MOVE ON......I think this thread needs to be closed......

Ill admit at 1st glance it can look like the driver did it.

I have a good quality slo mo that I got off Bittorrent today and its as clear as day that the "arm" is the kerb and the "gun" is the passengers head. If people want to see that the driver did it, thats what they will see, however if you have an open mind then it clear that it not right.

www.torrentspy.com...

here is the clip in case anyone wants to have a look.

Did you see the movie, "JFK"? I think it was what the David Ferry character talked about. I think it was triangular crossfire. I thought one thing that was strange was when the man opened the black umbrella. I think that was a signal to get ready to fire. The man claimed that he was taunting Kennedy with the umbrella, which was what they did to his father in England, but it seems like a signal to me.

I was reading last night about the Zapruder film being tampered with inmmany ways...and if you look, it does appear that the head shot came from behind in the film because the blood spews out of the front of his head, but then if you look at the autopsy photo with him lying on the slab, there is no damage to the front of his head....The Zapruder film was tampered with to make it look like the shot came from behind.....also in the film a few frames after the head shot, the blood just disappears....and if Jackie went onto the hood to pick up a piece of his skull, then obviously the shot came from the front or Grassy KNoll as we all know it did....while the FBI or CIA or whoever had possession of that film and beofre it was released to the public, it was doctored up a great deal!!

But anyway....the point of all this was: THE DRIVER WAS NOT THE SHOOTER!!

Originally posted by UnMature
I have a quick question about what is shown of the Kennedy Assasination in the Zapreuder film. Why is Kennedy's reaction so odd? His hands or in the shape of fists on his neck. If you got shot in the neck wouldn't you normally put, say one hand flant against the wound and apply pressure? Any medical reason (or other) as to why he would respond in this way?

Interesting thread....but I'm not sure anyone actually answered this question...Here's one medical explaination for JFK's odd movement:

A spinal injury at C-6 forces the victim's arms to jerk up into a fixed position - parallel with the chin, hands in toward the chin, elbows out. This is called Thorburn's position, after the physician that discovered it in the 1800's. Once the spine is so damaged, the arms lock in that position.

The author of "Case Closed" contends that the Zapruder film shows Jackie trying to push JFK's arms down, but that they will not yield until the head shot occurs, releasing the reflex.

( BTW, Jedi, I was not refering to the 'flicker' that would be inherent in that type of film, but the jerky flow of the motion--as if frames were being skipped....the first documentary I recall seeing that showed the frame numbers confirmed that some frames were not present.) I have since found sites that provide all of the frames, even the damaged ones. One here



[edit on 27-1-2005 by frayed1]

frayed..............that was an awesome link!! i viewed every one of those slides.

unbelievable.............i'd never seen a slide by slide breakdown.

wow!


angie

Glad you liked it! It is one of the best I've seen.
...I can't take all the credit for finding it...Zabilgy has it too.

Here is one of the autopsy results, but be aware....they are graphic. Autopsy photos

NOW I WANT EVERY ONE TO LISTEN TO ME NOW, where you have put that "YELLOW ARROW" that is NOT what I'm talking about O.K. listen again THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M talking about , now if you could just keep that picture frame EXACTLY as it is but REmove the arrow I could verbaly direct you attentions to where the gun is, here the best I can do so far even with the yellow arrow there, listen carefully do you see the two edges of the arrow on the left and right sides, o.k. look ar the right ( top) curved edge of the arrow right in front of that curve do you see a whitish color, THATS the driver's inside sleeve being exposed becuse he has begining take aim with the gun

[edit on 27-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 27-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

BETER yet heres a good example just post up the EXACT image again but this time WITHOUT the Aroow and I'll describe in detail what everyone should be looking for.

Why dont YOU post a picture and circle the gun seeing as noone has a clue what you are refering to?