Dutch Investigators Give Results of MH17 Probe to Families

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Velatropa24

As a matter of fact it does. Again just because you dont like the evidence doesnt invalidate it.

As a matter of fact, it does not. It wouldn't stand up in court.

a reply to: Velatropa24

Like I said, you live in some sort of delusional world. Probably as a result of conditioning by mainstream media - the best and most free in the world.

*Snip*
If you have a few precious Minutes watch the second video after the 20 second advert note the plane position and note the impact location on the plane, the missile could only have come from the rebel held area due to the splatter, everyone agrees except you that do in fact seem programmed by RT and the Kremlin propaganda machines. Wake up FFS and smell the Coffee.

www.dailymail.co.uk... -field.html

originally posted by: skywatcher44
a reply to: Velatropa24

Like I said, you live in some sort of delusional world. Probably as a result of conditioning by mainstream media - the best and most free in the world.

Think you maybe living in a Delusional world and time will tell . State media is much more likely to lie and push an agenda and you seem to believe it all even after all the found out lies and conspiracy garbage. Shame on you for claiming intelligence and with not a thought for the 298 innocents who deserve some justice.
If you have a few precious Minutes watch the second video after the 20 second advert note the plane position and note the impact location on the plane, the missile could only have come from the rebel held area due to the splatter, everyone agrees except you that do in fact seem programmed by RT and the Kremlin propaganda machines. Wake up FFS and smell the Coffee.

www.dailymail.co.uk... -field.html

The 298 victims (if they ever existed) and their families do deserve justice - no doubt about it, i would be the first to agree with that. However justice does not come by grabbing the first guy off the street and screaming he is responsible.

I have very good reasons to believe that this was a very well orchestrated falce flag attack, with a clear purpose to frame a certain country, followed by a currently ongoing ordered investigation. This belief has nothing to do with Russian (or any other media) as all of you seem to ignorantly assume - and no, I am not ashamed of my thoughts, and not afraid to go against popular opinion.

a reply to: Velatropa24

(if they ever existed)

No hope with you then. Someone in Russia gave the go ahead for that big big mistake and they thought it was a Ukrainian Aircraft. The truth is out and it will be backed up by much more evidence given time 298 children, women and men all innocents SHAME.

originally posted by: skywatcher44
a reply to: Velatropa24

(if they ever existed)

No hope with you then. Someone in Russia gave the go ahead for that big big mistake and they thought it was a Ukrainian Aircraft. The truth is out and it will be backed up by much more evidence given time 298 children, women and men all innocents SHAME.

I have not seen one bit of legitimate evidence yet. Ive heard claims that evidence exists, but have not seen it. I will have no problems admitting that I am wrong if I see evidence... Show me!

Shame is blaming and demonizing someone without KNOWING. Knowing and believing or thinking are two very different things.

...long storey short, back on topic. Lets summarize:

What I see here - a claim, no legitimate evidence, belief and blame. Opinion without knowledge (ignorance).

Anyone going to show me some evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that Russia is responsible?

Or just keep getting upset at seeing that some one has a different point of view?

a reply to: Velatropa24

The 298 victims (if they ever existed) and their families do deserve justice - no doubt about it, i would be the first to agree with that. However justice does not come by grabbing the first guy off the street and screaming he is responsible.

I have very good reasons to believe that this was a very well orchestrated falce flag attack, with a clear purpose to frame a certain country, followed by a currently ongoing ordered investigation. This belief has nothing to do with Russian (or any other media) as all of you seem to ignorantly assume - and no, I am not ashamed of my thoughts, and not afraid to go against popular opinion.

So using Occam's Razor to eliminate all the evidence presented in the media, you have jumped to the conclusion that it must have been a false flag attack, possibly using an empty commercial jet in the service of Malaysia, designed to frame a certain country. Please, give us a hint: Was it New Zealand? Equador? Andorra? Please share all the evidence that has led you to this conclusion.

a reply to: Velatropa24

*Post removed by staff*

The fact that it was shot down by a Russian missile seems a good place to start. Unless you believe that the wreckage was an elaborate simulation, the debris indicates that it was shot down by a missile, rather than having some sort of mechanical failure. The Donbass Fascists had been shooting at Ukrainian aircraft, and have publicly claimed to have shot some down. The plane was approaching from the West, and could easily have been mistaken for a Ukrainian aircraft by an inexperienced or panicked crew.

Remember, this affair was followed very closely here on ATS at the time. The various social media posts were analyzed, the Russian media's interviews with "witnesses" examined, the sleuthing of Bellingcat and other analysts discussed... ad nauseum. No-one here is nodding their head and saying: "If the media are saying it, it must be true." The simple fact is that time and again, Russia's "evidence" turned out to be implausible or palpably fabricated.

Face up to it: Donbass Fascists accidentally shot down a plane by mistake and Russia's first impulse was to cover it up. What evidence can you provide to the contrary?

DJW001

1) Russian missiles are used by other countries all over the world. 2) the people of Donbass and fashism not only have nothing in common, but are mutually exclusive terms, which can not be said for official Ukraine. So on this point, you are either very brainwashed/confused, or are deliberately lying and twisting the facts. I don't know which is worse. 3) "could easily have been mistaken" is a possibility, not a fact. Usually responsibility/blame is based on "fact" not a "possibility".

"Face up to it: Donbass Fascists accidentally shot down a plane by mistake and Russia's first impulse was to cover it up." A) - what evidence can you or anyone provide to prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that this is a fact and not a mere possibility? B) this (even if true) does not prove that "Russia or Donbass is behind the specific action of firing the missile and downing the plane.

a reply to: Velatropa24

1) Russian missiles are used by other countries all over the world.

MH-17 was not flying " all over the world" when it was shot down, it was flying over Ukraine.

2) the people of Donbass and fashism not only have nothing in common, but are mutually exclusive terms, which can not be said for official Ukraine.

That will come as a surprise to the Donbass Narodny (Volkische/Racial) Republic:





Perhaps you just need to read up on what Fascism is:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And what sort of political parties Russia supports:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So on this point, you are either very brainwashed/confused, or are deliberately lying and twisting the facts. I don't know which is worse.

Since you are either brainwashed or lying, you tell me.

3) "could easily have been mistaken" is a possibility, not a fact. Usually responsibility/blame is based on "fact" not a "possibility".

No, it is based on evidence and reason, both of which strongly support the possibility.

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