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Dutch Investigators Give Results of MH17 Probe to Families

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posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 06:55 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

*Snip*

You saw Parrys article, didn't you? Maybe there never was any satellite data, otherwise the US would've been lucky to provide? What exactly is your spin on that now?


edit on 9/29/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

What makes you think that all of the evidence the panel has had access to has been made public?



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

So you think they sit on US satellite data but are somehow unable to deliver? *Snip*

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, you know the drill.
edit on 9/29/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Velatropa24

That is the suspicion by Russia and their supporters because the don't like the outcome of the JIT's investigation. They have no proof to support the claim that Ukraine, the US, or the JIT falsified any evidence.

On the other hand we have clear proof that Russia has spent two plus years pushing misinformation and blatantly false information. We have proof that they have taken every opportunity to attempt to impede and discredit this investigation and the search for justice. Why else would they push the Su-25 narrative for do long? Why else would the veto the UN Tribunal? Why else would they have Almaz-Antey say that Russia has no 9M38M1s in their stocked even though we have pictures as recent as 2015 that prove this claim false? Why else would they try to pin the blame on Ukraine by using data from a radar that wouldn't be able to detect a SAM? Why else would Putin say, mere days after the event occurred, that no matter who pulled the trigger Ukraine is at fault?

I've asked these questions numerous times now. You keep ignoring or deflecting them. Clearly you can see that Russia isn't exactly been acting like an innocent party. They are acting like someone who knows the guilty party and ate trying to protect them. Now why would they do that if it wasn't a Russian or a separatist that pulled the trigger?



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

The investigators already said they are not releasing all the evidence to the public yet. There is still a long way to go before this case sees the inside of a courtroom and they don't want to potentially sabotage their efforts before they get there.



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254




They are acting like someone who knows the guilty party and ate trying to protect them


Well. And here we are, talking about another cover-up keeping the fictional evidence secret for national security reasons or something. You better keep pushing that russian straw-man button if you really wanna control the damage done by this investigation.

Why would someone do that if it wasn't an ukrainian helmet with ss marks pulling the trigger, that's right.



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Velatropa24

That is the suspicion by Russia and their supporters because the don't like the outcome of the JIT's investigation. They have no proof to support the claim that Ukraine, the US, or the JIT falsified any evidence.

On the other hand we have clear proof that Russia has spent two plus years pushing misinformation and blatantly false information. We have proof that they have taken every opportunity to attempt to impede and discredit this investigation and the search for justice. Why else would they push the Su-25 narrative for do long? Why else would the veto the UN Tribunal? Why else would they have Almaz-Antey say that Russia has no 9M38M1s in their stocked even though we have pictures as recent as 2015 that prove this claim false? Why else would they try to pin the blame on Ukraine by using data from a radar that wouldn't be able to detect a SAM? Why else would Putin say, mere days after the event occurred, that no matter who pulled the trigger Ukraine is at fault?

I've asked these questions numerous times now. You keep ignoring or deflecting them. Clearly you can see that Russia isn't exactly been acting like an innocent party. They are acting like someone who knows the guilty party and ate trying to protect them. Now why would they do that if it wasn't a Russian or a separatist that pulled the trigger?


Well - that is you suspicion, and that is all it is, just that. The su-25 version was just that - a version which could not be excluded at the time, therefore needed to be worked through - and that is what happened. How about the fact that Russian military radar has pinpointed the exact launch siteon the Ukranian territory and provided recorded data? Did anybody listen? There is no proof Russia did it period. That is the claim, but there is no proof.

No proof = no case.
edit on 29-9-2016 by Velatropa24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

One has to wonder how the public could be able to sabotage their efforts if said evidence would be legit. I'm thinking we don't get the full story here, and there's something else pointing in that direction as well:


Investigators believe that some of the documents seized after last week's raid on the detective's home in Bad Schwartau, northern Germany, may shed light on the circumstances of the tragedy. Some of the papers are said to be "explosive" and could help determine the culprits.

'Explosive' Papers Seized From Private Detective Investigating MH17 Crash

Probably better to open another thread for this story, but there you have it.
edit on 29-9-2016 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-9-2016 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: Velatropa24

And once again you miss the bulk of my point in an attempt to deflect. Almaz-Antey have definitively lied on Russia's behalf twice now. We had witnesses (who just so happened to be separatists) claim that they saw an Su-25 down MH17. We had Russian government owned and operated media outlets publishing an obvious Photoshop photo as proof there was an Su-25. The facts are that over and over Russia has lied during this investigation. Any time they presented a new theory or was backed up by lies.

I ask again. If Russia is so innocent why have they done nothing but attempt to impede and discredit this investigation through constant lying?



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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edit on 29-9-2016 by Velatropa24 because: Double post



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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edit on 29-9-2016 by Velatropa24 because: Double post



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Velatropa24

And once again you miss the bulk of my point in an attempt to deflect. Almaz-Antey have definitively lied on Russia's behalf twice now. We had witnesses (who just so happened to be separatists) claim that they saw an Su-25 down MH17. We had Russian government owned and operated media outlets publishing an obvious Photoshop photo as proof there was an Su-25. The facts are that over and over Russia has lied during this investigation. Any time they presented a new theory or was backed up by lies.

I ask again. If Russia is so innocent why have they done nothing but attempt to impede and discredit this investigation through constant lying?


...and I tell you once again - throughout this whole topic, I never once claimed anyones guilt or innocense. I maintained quite consistently that there is a lack of evidence to start blaming some one. Show me the fault in my claim...



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Velatropa24

That point deserved a triple post and I starred every single one of them, but let's blaim some russians now.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Let's blaim Almaz for providing any data at all!
Let's blaim some rebels for supporting the Su-25 narrative!
Let's blaim the russian gubbermint for a media fake provided by someone else!

*Snip*

Let me ask one thing: Do you happen to have any evidence in support of the claim, that Russia discredited the investigation through constant lying? Is that something Al Qaida was able to pull of with the Nist report as well or is that just you again, utilizing lies for the sake of the spin?



edit on 29-9-2016 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/29/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

The court of public opinion, contrary to what Russia / pro russians think, is not the same as a court of law. They cant release evidence in the manner Russia demands and the continual push on that topic demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge about the law / rules of evidence in the west.

Trying to invoke the failed nazi argument again is further proof of what I am talking about.



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 02:01 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 


(post by Velatropa24 removed for a manners violation)

posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Velatropa24
...and I tell you once again - throughout this whole topic, I never once claimed anyones guilt or innocense. I maintained quite consistently that there is a lack of evidence to start blaming some one. Show me the fault in my claim...


There is not a lack of evidence. The flaw is your refusal to believe any evidence that doesn't support the Russian false claims.

Just because you don't understand / agree with the evidence does not invalidate it. The evidence is there and has always been there. Your refusal to accept it is your flaw.


Show me the evidence! A guy speaking at a conference about how he has evidence does not ammount to evidence. Also a recorded phone conversation with no further details does not ammount to evidence.

I could record a phone conversation with my friend claiming to be CIA and discussing how e bougjt the plane down, then put it on social media and wait for the likes of you to pick it up and start the blame game. See my point?


So - i am waiting for legitimate irrifutable evidence which you speak of. Everything else is bla bla



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

How about the constantly changing story of what happened? When Russia falls victim to its own propaganda I think the jig is up.



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Velatropa24

There are more neo nazis in Russia than ukraine.
There are neo Nazis in the Duma.

There are none in the Rada.

Not a delusional opinion - fact.

*Snip*
edit on 9/29/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: Velatropa24

As a matter of fact it does. Again just because you dont like the evidence doesnt invalidate it.




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