A question for Masonic Light and other Masons

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posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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Whattya know, I should have just walked right into my School's Directors office...




posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Let's just quote your "Brother" Albert Pike from "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry".

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”

In other words, every explanation to non-Masons of their symbology is a lie, and in fact I wouldn't trust a word that came out of any of their mouths.

Pike sure made good use of his "light", co-founding the KKK and all.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
Let's just quote your "Brother" Albert Pike from "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry".

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”

In other words, every explanation to non-Masons of their symbology is a lie, and in fact I wouldn't trust a word that came out of any of their mouths.

Pike sure made good use of his "light", co-founding the KKK and all.



Good grief man, does everything have to be so literal? Try wrapping your brain around what is being said, rather than taking everything at face value.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And for the hundred millionth time, Albert Pike was NOT associated with the KKK!



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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www.impiousdigest.com...

Pretty convincing about Pike and the KKK. Then again since Pike himself clearly stated Masonry is all about lying and deception its no surprise his KKK ties are constantly denied by any Mason.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
www.impiousdigest.com...

Pretty convincing about Pike and the KKK. Then again since Pike himself clearly stated Masonry is all about lying and deception its no surprise his KKK ties are constantly denied by any Mason.


For an article that claims to have "evidence" in the headline, there sure is a lack of it in the text. Lots of speculation, but no proof. Also, I do not believe that Albert Pike was ever "owner-publisher of the Memphis, Tennessee, Daily Appeal", but he did work there as an editor for a time, if memory serves me.

A lack of proof does not constitute proof.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by LogoWatch
www.impiousdigest.com...

Pretty convincing about Pike and the KKK. Then again since Pike himself clearly stated Masonry is all about lying and deception its no surprise his KKK ties are constantly denied by any Mason.


For an article that claims to have "evidence" in the headline, there sure is a lack of it in the text. Lots of speculation, but no proof. Also, I do not believe that Albert Pike was ever "owner-publisher of the Memphis, Tennessee, Daily Appeal", but he did work there as an editor for a time, if memory serves me.

A lack of proof does not constitute proof.



Wow! How does this author live with himself!?!?!? I can't believe that this guy would go as far as to even provide a sort of timeline of Pike's KKK career, without once, NOT EVEN ONCE, providing any kind of reference, source, or proof of any kind. Did he make all that stuff up!?!? AMAZING!!!

Reminds me of many of the posts on this forum...



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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That's debatable on either side, but his quote below certainly is not. How come you're avoiding it?

Let's just quote your "Brother" Albert Pike from "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry".

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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quote]Originally posted by LogoWatch

Pretty convincing about Pike and the KKK.

Only to someone whose research credentials would parallel those of Bozo the Clown. This hoax is all over the internet on anti-Masonic sites, and is being perpetuated by quacks like Lyndon LaRouche. But the simple facts are that there are no Klan documents in existence ever showing Pike to have been a member, the Ku Klux Klan never claimed that Pike was one of their members, Pike never mentioned them in any of his writings, but the vast volumes of writings that he did leave behind show that his beliefs were incompatible with those that were required to be a Klansman.

And that, my friend, is "pretty convincing."

This whole story is pretty cut and dried: you can slander him all day long about it, but no matter how many times you claim it, it still won't make it true. Better luck next time.



Then again since Pike himself clearly stated Masonry is all about lying and deception its no surprise his KKK ties are constantly denied by any Mason.


Wrong again. What Pike actually wrote is that all religions and other metaphysical disciplines use false interpretations of sacred symbols whereby those unworthy to receive them would be led astray, that the Arcanum would not be profaned. This certainly isn't an earth-shattering secret, nor is Pike telling the intelligent reader anything he doesn't already know. After all, Plato, Jesus, and St. Ambrose, along with thousands of other scholars, have all said the same thing.

Plato said that a man's intellect and perseverence must be tested in this manner, which in part is what makes him worthy of the truth. Jesus warned his disciples not to cast their pearls before swine, and said "To them I speak in parables; but to you, I speak openly."

Therefore, if you just don't get it, blaming Pike for writing the facts isn't going to help you anyway. Who ever made any advancement or wise decisions by shooting the messenger?



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
That's debatable on either side, but his quote below certainly is not. How come you're avoiding it?

Let's just quote your "Brother" Albert Pike from "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry".

Page 104-105 “Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.”


I can't speak for anyone else, but I did not avoid it, and if you read my thread that I linked to there you would see that. Did you read it? Masonic Light also answered this, true to form, in an intelligent, balanced, rational post. Why you can't accept it, well that's on you, not us.

[edit on 2/5/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Only to someone whose research credentials would parallel those of Bozo the Clown


Hey leave the clown alone.
Bozo was a cool guy. smart to.
careful he might have to call Depity Dawg.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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What did you expect to find? A picture of a guy in a cloak, and say, thats Albert Pike!

I mean, thats proof to you guys, the only acceptable kind apparently.

We've been over this more than a million times, maybe its you guys who should change your approach.

We already know Freemasons don't keep secrets, and would never lie.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by akilles


We already know Freemasons don't keep secrets, and would never lie.


What we know is that these guys keep repeating the same old tired rhetoric with not a shred of evidence to back any of it up.

Just as easily, I could accuse you or Logo Watch of being members of the KKK. I don't have pictures of you guys in hoods, after all, but that's not really necessarily. I mean, I wrote it on the Internet, and since it's on the Internet, it must be true, right?

During Pike's lifetime, no one ever said anything about him being a member of the Ku Klux Klan. His name is not listed in any of the histories of that organization. Even those who really did found the Klan (Nathan Bedford Forrest and company) shut it down and resigned from it when the rank and file became violent.

But in any case, there is no evidence linking Pike to the Klan in any way, shape, or form. And as much as the anti-Masons hate this fact, they can't change it, and it's pretty much the end of the story.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Well, logowatch, I disagree on a lot of things with the bulk of ATS members, but they certainly got it right when they voted Masonic light WATS for the month.

I guess that most of the people here -- inlcuding me -- realize high-class ignorance-fighters like Masonic Light when we see them and reward them appropriately.

I think that a lot of people here also recognize the other type of people, too. You know, the ones who bring up false stories and will do anything possible to slander good people -- not because these individuals are fighting ignorance or anything like that, but becuse they are just petty and vicious folk who have few if any friends on or off the Internet.

Not that I'd mention any names, of course.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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So does that mean you are vouching for all Masons of that time period not being KKK, or what are you trying to argue Masonic Light?

Are you just saying, sure, Masonry may have had some innocent pawns with their little paws inside the KKK, but by no means were they leading it?

Masonic Light, you are 32 degree, right? Here's to thawing
.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Masonic Light, you are 32 degree, right? Here's to thawing
.



Here's to you getting a clue.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
So does that mean you are vouching for all Masons of that time period not being KKK, or what are you trying to argue Masonic Light?

Are you just saying, sure, Masonry may have had some innocent pawns with their little paws inside the KKK, but by no means were they leading it?

Masonic Light, you are 32 degree, right? Here's to thawing
.


That's pretty unconventional thinking. By extrapolating your logic, if one Mason adhered to KKK thinking, you would condemn the bunch? That's trawling my friend. Close to trolling, it remains to be seen. Just in case you want to know, I am not affilliated with the Masons in any manner. I'm just trying to Deny Ignorance.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 03:08 AM
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eXtrapolate my ideas all you want. That makes them yours.

In fact, I would like evidence of Negro membership in Freemasonry at that time. I know they weren't solicited, so it might be difficult
.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
In fact, I would like evidence of Negro membership in Freemasonry at that time. I know they weren't solicited, so it might be difficult
.


Try Googling Lodge 441 during the American War of Independance.
You'll find that it had 15 black members. You can even find thier names - Prince Hall, Cyrus Johnson, Bueston Slinger, Prince Rees, John Canton, Peter Freeman, Benjamin Tiler, Duff Ruform, Thomas Santerson, Prince Rayden, Cato Spain, Boston Smith, Peter Best, Forten Howard and Richard Titley.

You might also want to look for African Lodge 459 which was formed in 1784 in Boston under the English Constitution with a charter given to them from London.

This predates the KKK by what? At least 50 years? In fact, one could say that black people were present as Freemasons even before the birth of the USA. They were certainly around before the forming of the KKK.

And contrary to your claim, it's not difficult to find this information at all if you bother looking - a simple check would have told you all you needed to know within seconds. But it looks like you couldn't even be bothered to do that. You just spewed a lot of unfounded insinuation without even once having the decency to look and see if what you are writing is true.
So, I've provided the evidence you asked for, now be so kind as to return the favour. If you can be bothered to research for once, offer me one bit of evidence that Freemasons were involved in the creation of the KKK. One solitary fact will do. We've been through this whole subject of the KKK many times and nobody has ever been able to bring up one single piece of evidence that shows Freemasonry or Freemasons were involved in the creation of the KKK. Why? It's quite a simple explanation - there is no evidence.

The sad thing about people like you Akilles, is that you will probaby now ignore this information. People like you tend to treat truth as if it doesn't exist, even though you've played your cards and been revealed as a loser.



[edit on 8-2-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Another source concerning Albert Pike and Prince Hall:

ncmason.org...





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