A question for Masonic Light and other Masons

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
masonary is usually considered work with rock,brick,and/or concrete.

Actually, that's "masonry" too. There's no such word as masonary...although even some Masons say and spell it that way, too.

Originally posted by freudling
Sounds like a bunch of childish crap. Those that belong to something like the Masons or other like organizations are weak. I am not saying abandon all clubs and Religions, but life is wating to be experienced and I don't need a bunch of guys telling me so called 'truths' about life and reality: I have my own mind to determine these rather dogmatic, academic dimensions.

Moreover, the way you masons are protraying them, it sounds like the classic road down the garden path: shoved full of propaganda early on, only to know that your leaders are sick and twisted leaders of this world. What is so different about belonging to an organization, like, say, a society in a country! For example America with its moral code (constitution), public Universities, and the like. But hey, if you need that organization, then let it be your drug. I have read some stuff on the teachings and it is LOW RENT. The only interest I have is determining who is at the top and whether aliens exist on this planet. If I have to be a member of a stupid club, then let it be.

I am sure that in good Universities all over the world young people have more intellectually stimulating conversations than most of the ones going on in the lodges.

Thank you for sharing that open-minded opinion of yours. Now all of us who are Masons can go and resign or membership in the Order and feel SO much better. Wow! You've really opened my eyes! You're obviously such an enlightened person. I'll bet you had a wonderful childhood, too.

sheesh!

Originally posted by freudling
Sounds like a bunch of childish crap. Those that belong to something like the Masons or other like organizations are weak. I am not saying abandon all clubs and Religions, but life is wating to be experienced and I don't need a bunch of guys telling me so called 'truths' about life and reality: I have my own mind to determine these rather dogmatic, academic dimensions.

Moreover, the way you masons are protraying them, it sounds like the classic road down the garden path: shoved full of propaganda early on, only to know that your leaders are sick and twisted leaders of this world. What is so different about belonging to an organization, like, say, a society in a country! For example America with its moral code (constitution), public Universities, and the like. But hey, if you need that organization, then let it be your drug. I have read some stuff on the teachings and it is LOW RENT. The only interest I have is determining who is at the top and whether aliens exist on this planet. If I have to be a member of a stupid club, then let it be.

I am sure that in good Universities all over the world young people have more intellectually stimulating conversations than most of the ones going on in the lodges.

My goodness....

Aren't we just full of ourselves today.

Masonic Light this is for you:
You voted for A Demolay Youth, in Bill Clinton.

That would mean he has taken vows similar to a Mason.

You have pointed out numerous times Vows are more important to you than anything, so that clarifies in which way you thought Clinton was deserving.

Let me ask you Masons this, how do you feel about your Brothers making more than one allegiance? For example, joining another Society ontop of Masonry, whether it involve religion, philosophy, politics, finance, or maybe a tiny bit of the occult. Are they still as MUCH your brother as people who are exclusive to North American Masonry?

Originally posted by akilles
Let me ask you Masons this, how do you feel about your Brothers making more than one allegiance? For example, joining another Society ontop of Masonry, whether it involve religion, philosophy, politics, finance, or maybe a tiny bit of the occult. Are they still as MUCH your brother as people who are exclusive to North American Masonry?

I'm a member of the National Association of Realtors (NAR) that is both a political and financial organization. It's also an exclusive organization. I was required to go through a grueling 120 hour initiation and I was tested to insure I knew the ritual throughly. I am required to give preferential treatment to other members of the organization. It has a complex degree structure with a vast number of designations. The members of these higher degrees have secret knowledge that gives them an advantage in society over the lower degrees and the rest of society. Members pay annual dues. I am subject to severe penalties, including fines and incarceration for failing to abide by the organizations "Code of Ethics". Also rather that a "G", many members where pins with a stylized "R". Instead of Lodges we meet in a building call the Board of Realtors. I am subservient to Worshipful Broker that requires me share a large percentage of the fruits of my labor with him.

The Masons were aware of my membership when I petitioned and did not hold it against me.


.

LOL,
Hillarious DF1, I salute you.

To answer your question along a more serious line. As long as the organizations or groups one joins does not break any of the oaths of his Masonic Obligations then no I have no problem with it.

Originally posted by akilles
Let me ask you Masons this, how do you feel about your Brothers making more than one allegiance? For example, joining another Society ontop of Masonry, whether it involve religion, philosophy, politics, finance, or maybe a tiny bit of the occult. Are they still as MUCH your brother as people who are exclusive to North American Masonry?

Religion and Politics are not to be discussed in a Masonic Lodge it is a hard and fast rule not just in America but World Wide. Why? so that no division is found in Freemasonry. Finace is restricted to the Finances of the Lodge and the matters surrounding that I have never heard any mention of outside finance in any lodge I have attended. The occult I would place under the same banner as religion, so while there would be no basic rejection of someone who practices any off centre religion again any discussion of it is strictly banned. Philosphy is such a wide ranging issue I dont think anyone can say that there is no part or parcel that would not find its way in to any activity.

I have just been through the obligation of a Mason , just to check. But there is no mention in it of being held above other obligations, for example a Masonic obligation can not overide a Marriage Vow. It is specifically worded to exclude any laws of the Governing Body of that district or Country as a Mason must always uphold his Moral and Civil Law.

In the English ritual the candidate is told before taking the obligation , that "there is nothing in it contary to his Moral , Civil or Religious duties". So even if the anti masonic lobby says this is a point that causes concern the pre amble gives the Candiadte the right to deny any irregular use of that point of the obligation if it is said to impede, say his religious obligations.

Originally posted by akilles
Masonic Light this is for you:
You voted for A Demolay Youth, in Bill Clinton. That would mean he has taken vows similar to a Mason.

That's true, but I didn't even know he was a DeMolay at the time. I just knew that I wasn't going to vote for Dole.

Let me ask you Masons this, how do you feel about your Brothers making more than one allegiance? For example, joining another Society ontop of Masonry, whether it involve religion, philosophy, politics, finance, or maybe a tiny bit of the occult. Are they still as MUCH your brother as people who are exclusive to North American Masonry?

I'm a member of several different organizations; I don't see how that sort of thing would matter. A person can be a Mason, Moose, Elk, Knight of Pythias, Oddfellow, etc., all at the same time. He just has to remember which hat to bring to each Lodge.

Originally posted by freudling
Sounds like a bunch of childish crap. Those that belong to something like the Masons or other like organizations are weak.

You come on here insulting something very loved and trasured by a lot of people and insult us... don't you dare come on here and speak like that about something you have no clue about. Nothing gives you the right to insult either Freemasonry or it's members in the way you did, I don't give a crap what side of the litter box you woke up on...

I don't need a bunch of guys telling me so called 'truths' about life and reality: I have my own mind to determine these rather dogmatic, academic dimensions.

The thing is, Freemasonry gives us the tools we need for finding these so called "'truths' about life and reality" on our own. But of course you wouldn't know that because you're not a Freemason, nor have you taken the time to do any research on the subject.

Moreover, the way you masons are protraying them, it sounds like the classic road down the garden path: shoved full of propaganda early on, only to know that your leaders are sick and twisted leaders of this world.

For the last time: FREEMASONRY DOESN'T HAVE ANY LEADERS!!! IT'S A BROTHERHOOD, A FRATERNITY!!!!

What is so different about belonging to an organization, like, say, a society in a country!

Now THAT'S weak! As a matter of fact, all masons belong to society in their respective country.

But hey, if you need that organization, then let it be your drug. I have read some stuff on the teachings and it is LOW RENT.

What have you read? Do you even know? Of course not. STOP INSULTING SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

The only interest I have is determining who is at the top and whether aliens exist on this planet. If I have to be a member of a stupid club, then let it be.

Dude, you're lucky most of the guys here decided to ignore your insolent post. Unfortunately I'm too hot-headed for that. Even so I've restrained myself from saying what you DESERVE TO BE TOLD because I'm better than you. In any case, if your principal directive in life is what you stated above, you must be stupider, more low-rent, weaker than anything that Freemasons or our silly club could ever be.

I am sure that in good Universities all over the world young people have more intellectually stimulating conversations than most of the ones going on in the lodges.

There's great conversations going on in college. College is where you get your critical thinking skills that allow you to have those great conversations. But, since you have never been in a lodge and wouldn't know the first thing about what goes on....

STOP INSULTING FREEMASONRY AND IT'S MEMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have they ever insulted you? Have they ever hurt you in any way, so that you would be insulting us, people and an organization you don't even know? That's very weak of you...


[edit on 28-1-2005 by sebatwerk]

"You come on here insulting something very loved and trasured by a lot of people and insult us... don't you dare come on here and speak like that about something you have no clue about. Nothing gives you the right to insult either Freemasonry or it's members in the way you did, I don't give a crap what side of the litter box you woke up on... "

Don't you EVER threaten me here again. I have knowledge of Freemasons, much more than you know since you don't KNOW me.

Originally posted by freudling
I have knowledge of Freemasons, much more than you know since you don't KNOW me.

And it sure shows...

Originally posted by freudling
Don't you EVER threaten me here again.

Uh...dude! I fail to see that ANYONE threatened you. A bit paranoid are we???

I have knowledge of Freemasons,

I'll bet you do. Probably ACCURATE knowledge as well, right? Well... I have knowledge of a secret plot to paint the Empire State Building orange with pink polka-dots. Trade ya!

....[snip] since you don't KNOW me.

I can't speak for everyone on this board, but I, for one, hope to keep it that way, too!




[edit on 28-1-2005 by senrak]

So how about, hmmm, a Freemason getting Knighted by the Queen of England?

Thats fine for you? Because to me it means your highest degrees serve the British Crown.

I don't want to convince any one to quit Masonry, or that its any different from how they perceive it to be, I just wonder how come Masonry hasn't been able to prevent any wars (or even help negotiations of on-going conflicts).

Masonry may bring its Brothers closer together, but it splits Humanity further apart.

Originally posted by akilles
Masonry may bring its Brothers closer together, but it splits Humanity further apart.

And how exactly does it do that???

Originally posted by akilles
So how about, hmmm, a Freemason getting Knighted by the Queen of England?

Are you aware that every king of England has been a Freemason since the 17th century? So what if a Freemason is knighted? What's the difference between that and a non-Freemason being knighted?

Thats fine for you? Because to me it means your highest degrees serve the British Crown.

That's a pointless statement too. All UK masons serve the British Crown - regardless of their status.

I don't want to convince any one to quit Masonry, or that its any different from how they perceive it to be, I just wonder how come Masonry hasn't been able to prevent any wars (or even help negotiations of on-going conflicts).

Again, what do you hope to gain by making such a generalised comment that really doesn't make a point? Non-masons have caused more wars and been unable to stop them. Doesn't this make them worse?

Masonry may bring its Brothers closer together, but it splits Humanity further apart.

Bit of a waste of time again. I'll just give you one example: Hitler wasn't a Freemason (he tried to destroy it). He also tore Europe apart. Churchill was a Freemason. He led his country to victory over tyranny and as a direct result the EU was born. European states generally live in a state of harmony with one another. There you have one non-Freemason splitting humanity apart and one Freemason uniting it. Could you be more wrong?


You really should think your statements through before making such vaccuous comments.

Originally posted by akilles
So how about, hmmm, a Freemason getting Knighted by the Queen of England?

I would imagine quite a few Masons have been Knighted by the Queen (and by post monarchs) Is there something wrong with that?

Thats fine for you? Because to me it means your highest degrees serve the British Crown.

Being Knighted by the Queen has NOTHING to do with degrees of Masonry...any more than me being a State Certified Real Estate Appraiser does. The two aren't connected, I just happen to be both.

I don't want to convince any one to quit Masonry,

Whew! What a relief. You had me worried for a minute there...

or that its any different from how they perceive it to be, I just wonder how come Masonry hasn't been able to prevent any wars (or even help negotiations of on-going conflicts).

Uhm...I didn't realize we were supposed to prevent wars (us being a fraternity and all....) But now that we know our job is to prevent wars, we'll get right on it!!!! Thanks for the "heads-up"

Masonry may bring its Brothers closer together, but it splits Humanity further apart.

On what do you base that ridiculous assumption? I mean, do you have documented evidence of that? ...or are you making blanket statements about something just to evoke response? (Perhaps it's that war thing again....)

Originally posted by akilles
Because to me it means your highest degrees serve the British Crown.

I love how these guys always try make it seem like masons always put Freemasonry first and foremost in their list of priorities, then their jobs, families, and morals. It cracks me up to read that just because someone is a Freemason, everything he does in his life is somehow intended to benefit the Craft. YOU GUYS ARE RIDICULOUS!!!

Could a Mason dispute that :
A person should continually strive to improve oneself.

I mean, the point of the Craft is to make a better man, is it not.

So by trying to improve himself in everything he does he is ALWAYS serving the Craft. Not ridiculous at all.

Senrak and sebatwerk:

YOUR REDICULOUS! Blah, blah. Your comments smell of emotionally charged, irrationality, although some of the statements that poster made, I agree, are too general. However, how on earth can you first say you are a newly formed Mason and then come onto a internet forum and respond to people in a way that you think you are a good representation for Masons? What do you really know about them? I too have been to some meetings and have colleagues in my Government who are Masons. I never bought into as my earlier posts elude to. I still hang out with them and they are interesting people, but you will find much hostility here against Masons because based on the vast material available (i.e. History of the Masons, the Knights of Templar, etc.), and from peoples "so called" personal experiences, the Masons appear to be Satanic, or at least a group with enough power to decide peoples fate: the ultimate conspiracy which drives people to keep coming back to this site and discussing the issues of humanity, Religion and our future. Course a group deciding our future does not fair well with some people and you two certainly are NOT the ones to persuade us otherwise, right Master Masons?

I too bought into Plato's Republic, which I feel is a doctrine intertwined with the end goals of the Masons. In fact, I was totally sold. If the information is correct, measures are being orchastrated by the most powerful, and thus, as speculated, the highest members of the Masons to take control of the world. Plato refers to pupeteering humans with "The Noble Falsehood." Forgive me if you already know, which you probably do. However, where I feel these people err is in the fact that Plato specifically says that the Rulers - the Philosopher Kings - are people who do not want to rule; people who do not want material things; people who will eat bread and drink a morsel of milk and be content. Is not one of the tenets of Masonary materialism? Further, we can observe the material lifestyle of those speculated as belonging to the Masons. Hell, we all lead those kinds of lives - well, most of us. But this is a so called Democracy, which, in Plato's 4 States, he placed a Democracy 3rd on the list, 2nd last that is. The last was a state run by the military, which is "supposed" to be the powers plan for America and perhaps the rest of the world. The fact that the Bush Administration passed the Patriot Act is suspect in this regard: now no search warrant is needed to come into your home.

Well, if the conspiracy is correct, that the Freemasons most Powerful leaders (Rockefellers, Rothchilds, Bushes, etc.) are plotting population reductions and martial law, then the Noble Falsehood has been adhered to beautifully: that is, Plato thought lying to the people for some "good" end in his eyes was Just (i.e. killing babies that were born from the 3rd class of people: the craftsmen). Now, I am not saying that our Governments are doing the latter example, it is just an example of a measure Plato thought was necessary to positively effect humans' evolution and thus the evolution of the State. Of course, nobody would know what happened to the babies. As I pondered, and discussed his State with people, he ended up being a cold blooded Aristocrat who advocated playing God. What was his goal for killing those babies? Of course, he wanted to, throughout many generations, convert the whole of the people of the state to "Philosopher Kings." He detailed a plan on how to accomplish this, which was keeping only the 2nd level people's babies alive, the ones who had silver in their souls, since these babies could ascend to having gold souls, the 3rd level, like the Philosopher Kings. Why can't the Philosopher Kings have babies themselves? Well, I think women can actually become Philosopher Kings as well, so they could do that. But, by definition, PK do not engage in Physical Pleasures of that sort, so the under-class are expected too.

Sure, I too believe that the worlds population is too large, but in so many countries, the exponential growth of people has actually STOPPED and in some cases reverted, so I do NOT buy the argument that the population will continue to grow exponentially. To some extent, I feel the Economy dictates how many people can exist at one time, so the argument to wipe people out appears in part, fallacious. I guess I could go on, and perhaps if the conspiracy is correct, maybe it is GOOD for us. I admit, I still think about the conspiracy as being something GOOD, as I still think of the Plato's Republic as being good, but most times it is the absolute opposite. Why good? Well, maybe true Utopia comes with only a group of Philospher Kings. The crying question is this, in a Kantian sense: "Do the means justify the ends?" I simply DO NOT know.

[edit on 29-1-2005 by freudling]

Originally posted by akilles
Could a Mason dispute that :
A person should continually strive to improve oneself.

I mean, the point of the Craft is to make a better man, is it not.

So by trying to improve himself in everything he does he is ALWAYS serving the Craft. Not ridiculous at all.

There is that warm fuzzy feeling when someone eventually gets it.