Why Are White Americans So Racist?

originally posted by: madenusa
It’s no longer legal to say, We don’t want African-Americans to live here, but you can say, ‘I’m going to make sure no one who makes less than two times the median income lives here.....
Housing Choice Vouchers, also known as Section 8, are meant to give poor families better options about where they live, but are instead confining the poor to the few neighborhoods where landlords will accept the voucher.

Something to thinkn about regarding section 8: we own a few rental properties. We won't rent to HUD because of the insane hoops you have to jump through. Annual inspections with arbitrary upgrades and/or "repairs" being required. The concept is noble: to not allow slumlords. The reality: enormous egos from behind a government desk have to justify their jobs by becoming hated in a personal level with some of the nonsense that they put landlords through the ringer over.

I'd be much happier about renting to HUD if doing so didn't cost me more money in the long run than renting to self pay people.

I also tried to work with MHMR. But when their tenant destroyed the house, they pointed at the tenant as the liable party. Except the tenant didn't sign the lease....the MHMR caseworker did.

Government makes things so much more difficult.

a reply to: Willtell

You don't stop, you change adapt and adjust. During the civil rights movement, there were multiple groups and movements working towards black rights and equality. MLK and his peace marches were just one among many. Not all were as his was, many were violent or didn't discourage violence.

You'll note though that when it comes to success in bringing about change the one name that always runs loudest is MLK and the marches most noted for bringing about change were peace marches.

Honestly there is no real hope for BLM, it's already become to tainted, and muddied to do any real good. There's no good reason to hold onto it, and insist it must be the rallying cry. No good is becoming of it.

Let BLM exist, in fact it makes a great counter example if another group should arise that does it right. Tactically it's good strategy to have a group to send ones violent undesirables, not that having violent undesirables is a good thing to have. Something to help set you apart in contrast.

I'd be very open to listen to and work with people that do it right, I think most would be relieved to see such a thing. It's rare to see it done right.

Never stop fighting for equality or justice. I will never suggest such a thing. I will however suggest recognizing when you've chosen a losing strategy and adapting.

Why are green Americans so ... so ... well green?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's just a universal government trait. Husband sees it too at his job.

It's how they get noticed. They find a way to change this or that regulation and then it has their name on it, so when they go up the bureaucracy, they can put it on their resume that they changed this or that to "improve" things. The problem, of course, is that they really usually have no idea at all what the repercussions are in the real world and they don't care. All they care about is their bonus and salary and how it generates.

a reply to: Willtell

Still doesnt justify the argument.

Dominicans still practice a pseudo form of slavery towards Hatians where they live on a piece of property in the DR and work the land in exchange for food.

That happens right now. THAT is racim. The real kind. And its done by people who are sometimes ethnically black against others of the same complexion.

That makes Dominicans more racist than White Americans.

In south America, groups of natives butcher other groups of slightly different genetic stock....down to the last woman and child. In Brazil this still happens.

In Argentina, Pinochets men threw many indiginous people out of planes...the ones who did the throwing were in many cases the descendants of European undesierables...Thats REAL racism at the hands of the descendants of victims of real racism.

The rwandan genocide was real racism.

So you see, I dont give a crap about the OPs POV.

I am not a racist monster and neither are White Americans, generally speaking.

This is all young morons listening to old morons and not bothering to ask themselves if everyone not liking them is based off their race or maybe in some cases their personality, or attitude.

There is some racism in the US. The rest is human nature and life playing out

Real racism is uglier than mean, and more dangerous than being slighted.

Being pulled over allot is not racism, it is life in the hood.

Being denied a job is not racism, its life in a dog eat dog world.

Not getting a date or a friendship is not racism, its cultural differences at play in closed minded peoples lives.

And so on.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's just a universal government trait. Husband sees it too at his job.

It's how they get noticed. They find a way to change this or that regulation and then it has their name on it, so when they go up the bureaucracy, they can put it on their resume that they changed this or that to "improve" things. The problem, of course, is that they really usually have no idea at all what the repercussions are in the real world and they don't care. All they care about is their bonus and salary and how it generates.

Even more insidious is when they muddle with the rules to the point that only they truly understand the ins and outs and loopholes, then they retire with the pension/benefits and become a consultant to help private businesses navigate the fiasco they helped create. I've seen it twice in my time in the industry and I'm witnessing a third attempt right now.

a reply to: Willtell

Stellar post I agree entirely.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's just a universal government trait. Husband sees it too at his job.

It's how they get noticed. They find a way to change this or that regulation and then it has their name on it, so when they go up the bureaucracy, they can put it on their resume that they changed this or that to "improve" things. The problem, of course, is that they really usually have no idea at all what the repercussions are in the real world and they don't care. All they care about is their bonus and salary and how it generates.

A key difference between government and private sector.

In the private sector, you get noticed for results. The difference there: results rewards smarts and innovation. My wife works for the State of Texas MHMR. Some of the nonsense she tells me has me completely lose my cool. From rewarding incompetence to rewarding bickering and petty behavior. They have automated almost all HR processes, so there isn't anyone you can really turn to to hold operations in check.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

White people are so racist because after breaking the spirits of black people during the time of slavery, black people became generally unsuccessful at life, and continue to be unsuccessful. Not always but in general. Whites used VIOLENCE in the name of slavery, which was the wrong answer. This VIOLENCE resulted in prolonging of racism. As Lincoln said him self, it was all about forcing the south to bend to his will and didn't care if the slaves were freed. This caused the whites in the south to resent blacks and be racist against them. You cannot attack someone's rights of freedom and expect no long-term consequences. The whites are tasked with the job to REPAIR the spirit of blacks, which has nothing to do with money. Spirits can only be repaired by giving someone your time, not your money. Spirits can only be repaired by voluntary labor.

So government was the focus, whereas spirit was supposed to be the focus. You cannot rest a society on a foundation of violence and expect a peaceful result. In specific, Lincoln should have resigned immediately rather than getting hundreds of thousands of Americans killed, then personally visited over 1,000 black people to repair their spirits after a life of broken spirit. And he should have asked other people to join him. If he did that, we would have minimal racism like in Britain and we wouldn't have such a culture conflict.

If 1 in 300 people in the USA would collectively agree to try and repair the spirit of blacks, these problems would generally go away. However, liberals seem to have no interest in doing that. Rather, they want to use the violence of the state to force people to pay more money to the IRS and then have the IRS issue checks to make the issue go away. No, not how it works. It has to work by real people and real connections. Love is the answer. Repairing the spirit of blacks is the answer.

So, if you see a black person ask if they want a hug. You'll be fixing the issue. Or if you are black and see white person, ask them to help repair the spirit of the black community. That is how it is done. Nothing the government, an agency based on involuntary violence, can fix this. Violence is not the answer. Love is the answer.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Puppylove

Something to consider: when you say "your neighborhoods", what is being ignored is that those are "their neighborhoods" because of the Federal Government herding them there with housing subsidies. And while it may not be only black people living in HUD housing, statistically it would seem that in most urban ghettos, it basically is.

This all results from the viewpoint that the poor are the problem, instead of seeing socioeconomic vacuums as the problem. When you have such a viewpoint, herding the people into smaller areas makes sense, since it makes your problem easier to manage.

I understand what you are saying, and I used to say the same thing. However, in my neighborhood (suburban) we have been building condos and apartments with many of them subsidized to relocate inner city families to more bountiful surroundings in hopes they can flourish. What we have seen though is an increase in violent crime and home invasions. Victims are saying the majority of these crimes are being committed by black people. We just had our first smash and grab type of robbery, also by a group of young black men. Locals are already passing petitions to end the subsidized housing and stop importing what they see as nothing but criminals and thugs. I know not all meet that criteria, but I can't deny the increase in serious crimes in my own neighborhood. No one I know goes to the mall any more. It used to be one of the attractions in this area. Now it isn't safe even during the day time. Just driving through the lot is dangerous. People from the inner city don't seem to have a concept of lanes or lane direction, even though they are clearly marked. I drive in Chicago on a pretty regular basis. I know what city driving is like, and this isn't it. Its like they are going out of their way to be as bad as they can be. I know that sounds ridiculous but I can't think of any other reason things are as bad as they are.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You bring up a valid point.

Just giving someone a new "situation" isn't going to give them the motivation to do something with it. They have to want more than living on government assistance. And when that assistance is never ending, why would they want to go to work and pay bills?

I'm a big believer in time limits on assistance for able bodied adults. If you go beyond the time allotted, assistance doesn't end, but the rules change. You have to volunteer and do community service.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Part of it is that the program you are talking about is taking the "horse" to "water." In this case, it is thought that the reason that poor families from the inner city cannot thrive is because they just don't have access to nice housing, good schools, ready jobs, and the amenities that come with healthy neighborhoods you find in the suburbs. The usual excuse is "white flight" because whites are too racist to want to live with poor urban minorities. So they bring them in with programs like this one.

The problem however is much more complicated than simple lack of access. There is a reason why there aren't decent schools, educated people, nice housing, ready jobs, and the amenities in those poor neighborhoods. And it has nothing to do with the denizens' skin color and everything to do with the behaviors of the denizens themselves.

You bring them into the nice neighborhood, but that doesn't change their personal behaviors. If the people given the chance to have access to those things through the program aren't ones who will truly value them and make use of them to best advantage by making sure their kids will behave and get a good education in the schools, will take care of their housing, will make an effort to get and then hold down one of those jobs that are available, and use the amenities the way they are intended to be used rather than abuse them, then all you are doing is importing the same destructive behaviors and impulses that created the phenomenon that destroyed the neighborhoods they were just taken out of.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Earlier i made a post in this thread discussing how peoples brains actually change dependant on environment. Actually, thats not wholly true, as neural DNA tends to be widely varied in humans, with about half of the neurons in your head having DNA that has been altered (and will continue being altered) via insertions/deletions. This has multiple variables driving it beyond environment. But environment (read: stress, most often caused by constant crisis) is a major factor.

You are moving people into a completely different environment. One that still patronizes them, and one that still does not teach them that property isn't just stuff, but is an investment. So i can imagine that the results aren't going to be the desired result.

You can't put a square peg in a round hole. And if you try, its going to get messy.

ETA: I forgot to point out the key failure....that people are still living for free. The solution is not to give subsidies. Or to raise minimum wage. The solution is to fix the value of the dollar, and to figure out how to get dollars into the hands of people who are poor. Our governments primary job is to protect our currency and to protect our markets/economy. Add to this protecting our borders.

Name 1 of those things that our government even makes a half assed attempt at doing. I cannot see how anything else will succeed, as they are simply band aids meant to hide the aforementioned failures.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Puppylove

Something to consider: when you say "your neighborhoods", what is being ignored is that those are "their neighborhoods" because of the Federal Government herding them there with housing subsidies. And while it may not be only black people living in HUD housing, statistically it would seem that in most urban ghettos, it basically is.

This all results from the viewpoint that the poor are the problem, instead of seeing socioeconomic vacuums as the problem. When you have such a viewpoint, herding the people into smaller areas makes sense, since it makes your problem easier to manage.

I understand what you are saying, and I used to say the same thing. However, in my neighborhood (suburban) we have been building condos and apartments with many of them subsidized to relocate inner city families to more bountiful surroundings in hopes they can flourish. What we have seen though is an increase in violent crime and home invasions. Victims are saying the majority of these crimes are being committed by black people. We just had our first smash and grab type of robbery, also by a group of young black men. Locals are already passing petitions to end the subsidized housing and stop importing what they see as nothing but criminals and thugs. I know not all meet that criteria, but I can't deny the increase in serious crimes in my own neighborhood. No one I know goes to the mall any more. It used to be one of the attractions in this area. Now it isn't safe even during the day time. Just driving through the lot is dangerous. People from the inner city don't seem to have a concept of lanes or lane direction, even though they are clearly marked. I drive in Chicago on a pretty regular basis. I know what city driving is like, and this isn't it. Its like they are going out of their way to be as bad as they can be. I know that sounds ridiculous but I can't think of any other reason things are as bad as they are.

This is what I speak of, some are criminals that is definitely true. But your community is petitioning to stop the program entirely, so it's like just saying, to those that aren't criminals trying to escape from criminals, they can't. Black people face these adversities too and it's a real shame.

As ketsuko said though, offering free things is not going to change the mindset of a person.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Puppylove

Something to consider: when you say "your neighborhoods", what is being ignored is that those are "their neighborhoods" because of the Federal Government herding them there with housing subsidies. And while it may not be only black people living in HUD housing, statistically it would seem that in most urban ghettos, it basically is.

This all results from the viewpoint that the poor are the problem, instead of seeing socioeconomic vacuums as the problem. When you have such a viewpoint, herding the people into smaller areas makes sense, since it makes your problem easier to manage.

I understand what you are saying, and I used to say the same thing. However, in my neighborhood (suburban) we have been building condos and apartments with many of them subsidized to relocate inner city families to more bountiful surroundings in hopes they can flourish. What we have seen though is an increase in violent crime and home invasions. Victims are saying the majority of these crimes are being committed by black people. We just had our first smash and grab type of robbery, also by a group of young black men. Locals are already passing petitions to end the subsidized housing and stop importing what they see as nothing but criminals and thugs. I know not all meet that criteria, but I can't deny the increase in serious crimes in my own neighborhood. No one I know goes to the mall any more. It used to be one of the attractions in this area. Now it isn't safe even during the day time. Just driving through the lot is dangerous. People from the inner city don't seem to have a concept of lanes or lane direction, even though they are clearly marked. I drive in Chicago on a pretty regular basis. I know what city driving is like, and this isn't it. Its like they are going out of their way to be as bad as they can be. I know that sounds ridiculous but I can't think of any other reason things are as bad as they are.

This is what I speak of, some are criminals that is definitely true. But your community is petitioning to stop the program entirely, so it's like just saying, to those that aren't criminals trying to escape from criminals, they can't. Black people face these adversities too and it's a real shame.

As ketsuko said though, offering free things is not going to change the mindset of a person.

Very true. But the neighborhood is looking at this, and in fact one of the examples was, like vetting of refugees. We know some of them are bad but we don't know which ones. So what do we do? Let them all in and hope for the best? Or, stop letting them in until we can tell which is which? Everyone discusses this issue like it is something that absolutely has to happen so there are NO options other than doing your best to prevent real threats from emerging. My point is that NONE of this MUST happen. We can start and stop this relocation any time we want for any reason. Or at least we should be able to. So, stop it until we can be as sure as possible we are bringing in people who want to succeed and be part of the community.

I know its a meme but its funny, we put up signs in national parks that tell people not to feed the animals because they become dependent on the handouts and stop taking care of themselves. Then we turn around and do exactly that to the poor. There is no incentive to get off the dole once you are on it. That has to change.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Problem is that, like with the refugees, there is nothing in place to screen out the ones who aren't going to take advantage of the opportunities they're offered.

So instead of selectively importing the ones who would be able to make use of the program as intended, something I think you'd find very few people would really have a problem with, you import the whole mess from one place to another.

Pretty soon, the whole problem that has been labeled as "white flight" happens all over again as those people who moved to the neighborhood in the first place so that they didn't have to live in unsafe conditions beset by crime once again move elsewhere to avoid the problem which the program just imported.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You make a great point, part of it is environment. But that reminds me of a debate/discussion I had not too long ago. My opponent made the statement that no other creature is as adaptable as man and that was one of the reasons we were at the top of the food chain. I took a contrary position. I believe that man is one of the least adaptable creatures that ever existed. The reason is this: everywhere we go, we change it to be very much like where we just came from. We force our environment to bend to our will, to accept our changes and requirements. We do little changing of our own. We move from a city to the country. We do not live in the wild. We build a big house with all the amenities and bring civilized utilities and all the creature comforts we are accustomed to along with us. The only difference is the scenery outside the window that shields us from the new environment so we can enjoy the same climate we enjoyed at our last location.

We are picking people up out of a nightmare and dropping them in the middle of our little piece of tranquility. And in two seconds flat we had the beginning of a nightmare. The neighborhood isn't going to change them. They are going to change the neighborhood.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Unfortunately, both will change.

It didn't get messed up overnight. Mitigating it won't be overnight, either.

So sick of being made to feel like I need to apologise for being white.

So sick of having to keep apologising for slavery, for Christianity...for everything. If it's that bad, why don't you guys elect a black president to really change stuff for the better...?

Oh, I forgot....you did...and it's worse!

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

what happened to the black race post slavery? Weren't they basically shuffled into ghettos?

Most of them stayed exactly where they were, but were now paid wages and given a place to stay.

People of the black movement do all those things you mentioned, movies, protests, media, social media.

And those are the ones doing things correctly. How does one justify criminal behavior for their cause? That only makes their cause become an evil through its association with them, and thus they hurt the cause.

Many investigations where there is video evidence of an unjust killing pretty much end with nothing happening to the officer.

Specifics? You may be able to come up with two or three. That is by far not many.

Intelligence? If a cop tells you to do something and you don't then you're a criminal and automatically in a position to be killed. Sounds good.

A cop is not going to shoot you for disobeying commands. That is a gross misrepresentation. They will however shoot you if you pose a threat to them or any innocent bystanders (the people they were hired to protect) and fail to obey their commands (usually to disarm).

While I acknowledge people should accept responsibility, I refuse to accept being a part of a problem because I'm not ignorant to something that is evidently wrong. Being ignorant to racial matters and allowing them definitely solves the problem, rather than tackling it for what it is.

No. Making EVERYTHING into a race problem is what causes a race problem in the first problem. If a white man attacks a black man out of hate, or if a black man attacks a white man out of hate; lets call it what it is . . . a personal problem. That one person may have been racist. But giving credence to it causes more people (on both sides) to promote and become racist themselves. You have fallen guilty of this yourself. The idea of all white people being racist and these cops all being racist because you don't like what happened in an incident, is racist.
The solution is for all people (no matter color) to come together united and stand behind the innocent party and against the guilty party. But that can't happen if you don't await investigations. And race baiters who profit off race wars (Al Sharpton, Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, BLM, etc...) are the problem not the solution.