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Women - How do you look at other women-Are my perceptions weird because I'm trans-deep thoughts

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posted on Sep, 23 2016 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted byFreija
My mom died when she was 48. I was 25 at the time and will be 62 in a couple of months. Would have been kind of nice to see her age and what I had to look forward to but I'm finding that out now on my own. It's not so great.


That's so sad ... my oldest daughter died at just one year older than your mother,

and I know just how young that is .... at 62 you could be my daughter!

If you were to ask me which were my best years, they would have to be between

42 and 44 years, but you can never say never I'm still very optimistic LOL!!


I was very lucky to have my mother live reasonably fit and well to the age of 94yrs.

So I do understand that you missed out on one of the best female to female

relationships one can ever have. She was very glamorous in her youth and where as

I appreciated it my brother was totally embarrassed by it during parent/teacher

visits!




posted on Sep, 23 2016 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: Freija
We sound a lot alike in many ways except for what we were born as.


I thought the same thing. I love reading your detailed posts, because I see myself in there so many times.


I do have a definite streak of tomboy in me. It took me a long time to realize this and incorporate those aspects of myself I so detested into my personality. It really wasn't until I established myself and gained confidence and strength in my femaleness and womanhood that I acknowledged and felt comfortable expressing this side of myself. You natal girls grow up working these things out. I didn't start until I became known to the world as a girl when I was 18. My lens is always going to be a little bit different on things relating to gendered qualities but it isn't that much different. I have and display those characteristics you listed that often get women classified as bitchy and dog knows I've come across that way at times.


This is very interesting. I never thought about that, but you're right. I worked out my male/female balance naturally, without the influence of how my gender is supposed to behave. I was a tomboy, climbed trees, played rough and LOVED trucks! Especially the earth movers. I still do. But I also had dolls and an E-Z bake oven, and planned for my future, when "Mr. Right" would whisk me away to have babies and live happily ever after. But all of that is socially acceptable for a girl. It's not so acceptable for a boy to play with dolls and plan their wedding.

I have never denied being a bitch and I'm not offended by the title at all. I KNOW I'm strong, opinionated, and sometimes snarky. I admire that in other women. There's a big difference between being a bitch and being an asshole. And sometimes, I can be that, too! LOL! I relate to the song, Bitch, by Meredith Brooks:



I'm a bitch, I'm a lover
I'm a child, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I'm your hell, I'm your dream
I'm nothing in between
You know you wouldn't want it any other way

So take me as I am
This may mean
You'll have to be a stronger man
Rest assured that
When I start to make you nervous
And I'm going to extremes
Tomorrow I will change
And today won't mean a thing


I think you're really strong and brave to reveal yourself here as you always have. Great discussion!
edit on 9/23/2016 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2016 @ 09:44 AM
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Well, Freija, your life experience is interesting, and your mind beautiful. I enjoyed reading your meanderings!

For my part, yes, I do all that you described. There is a difference in the way I regard women I observe in person, and on TV though.

Women on TV, I will look at very superficial things- her clothes, hair, make up. I pick up new ideas this way, of things to try, or not. I like studying the way beauty has so many different shapes, sizes, colors- seeing how different elements come together to make a fascinating face, for example. -Because often I am very drawn to watching women who just have very unusual looks.
There is a teenage girl in our village that, if I was a agent, I'd snatch her up right away! Yet, she has grown up with other kids in the village making fun of her, because she looked strange. She has red hair, white skin, and just strange features. But now, people just can't tear their eyes off her, and don't know what to say anymore. No one would call her a typical beauty, but she has...something, magical. She even has a thin long body, incredible bones, and is incredibly photogenic (she asked to friend me on Facebook, I don't know why, but I am blown away by her photos).

I'm rambling. I'm tired. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I used to be a cosmetologist, so that was basically my thing- looking at each person and seeing their particular beauty and trying to enhance that, bring it out more for them.

Although, now, in person, I think some of my defense reflexes come in, and I look at body language more, inflection and tone of voice, behaviorisms. I sense where a woman in at, if she is a competative or jealous type to watch out for, if she is honest, or kindhearted. This is just an instinct to help us find and form a good alliances with others, I think.

I just joined a group of people in a work training thing, yesterday. I did find myself looking over the women and sensing who I can trust, who I should stay guarded with. Unfortunately the only women there who instantly made my warning sensors go off inside is the only one who lives in the same city as I, and we're expected to share a car to get there each day.

I might try to get out of that- the feeling is that bad.

But anyway.... yeah, we do check each other out. From what my husband and my dad have told me, men check out other men that way too- though they told me it is a lot of comparison- to see who is potentially stronger, more powerful, more handsome, etc. ? I don't personally compare myself that way with other women. I tend to see them like colors of the rainbow, equal yet different. I don't really perceive a vertical hierarchy type of difference. (except perhaps social or economic class, which is sort of separate from who they are as a person)



posted on Sep, 23 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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This an interesting topic because of late I am working with very high powered women and I have taken the train of thought to put myself behind the lens, as an observer not a judge. I do not watch much T.V., so I cannot speak to that.

As I observe the high-powered and not so high-powered women at work, I see great stress and frustration - what from(?) - I can only imagine (but we all know the workloads of women in and out of the house). But, I also see great dedication and that acceptance of great responsibility that most women take on in life. So, if frustration comes my way, I usually take a deep breath and remain quiet and calm...waiting for that storm to pass. I do not react, I reflect and think about what their day might look like. Most women are taken aback by the lack of a knee jerk response from me and believe it or not, that few moments of silence dispels any problem. I believe women have a lot on their plates and don't need any more heavy weights added to it.

Most of my life, growing up in the 60s onwards, I was an athlete and was labelled as a 'tomboy', because I preferred climbing trees, running, playing with frogs/snakes, wood working and I naturally challenged anyone who told me I could not do something because I was a girl. I still challenge anyone who restricts my desired life choices, but the label has changed depending upon the bias and/or ignorance of the labeller.

As a young female athlete, most of my time was taken up practicing, so any time I spent with other girls, was usually playing with dolls, etc., which I found boring. My competitiveness showed only in attaining my personal goals of winning in sports, which I did achieve and which has helped to shape my self-esteem. I had many female friends growing up, but that was due to my other traits, mainly joking around and being a kind person, and true friend.

When I was younger, I loved to follow fashion trends (buying expensive runway outfits which I found a discount outlet store long ago) and I still do, but nowadays I do look to see what other women's fashion choices are and if any appeal to me, but I always revert back to my bohemian personality. It is not that I am trying to behave or look differently from other women, I always have been different (including fighting injustices; protesting) and the bohemian look appeals to me, including being braless.

Most other women's fashion choices I see, seem to reflect a 'fitting in' look rather than a 'this is who I am' look. Sometimes I think some women are afraid to step out of the boxes society has stuck them into, even by stepping out of line with what is an acceptable look/attire. (My daughter just dyed her hair purple/red and so good on her!).

So Freija, I can only speak from my long life's perspectives and I don't let anyone dictate to me how I should live my life, in any way. All I can say, is that I always nurtured a healthy self-esteem for myself and other women see that and perhaps that is why they are drawn to me.



posted on Sep, 23 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: Freija

Thanks for sharing Freija, I enjoyed reading your innermost thoughts. It's wonderful that you have a place to go and find people that are willing to listen to you and not judge. I'm not saying everyone here is that tolerant, but there are a good few.

I'm a 100% straight man but I would not judge anyone for their sexual preference or gender identity or anything like that. I'm older, almost your age only a few years younger, and have been married to a way younger woman for 11 years now. She was a surrogate, or gestational carrier as they are sometimes called, for a gay couple that an agency hooked her up with. She was actually glad that it wasn't a 'normal' couple because of the possibility that the woman might have jealousy issues over her carrying her husbands child. Anyway, the point of me bringing this up here is that there are a lot of people in my family who I'm sure judge us for having a baby for a gay couple but I don't waste any time thinking about it or losing sleep over it. We are thrilled watching the joy my wife was able to bring into these guys lives.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing. And I think you are completely 'normal' compared to other women as far as the way you look at them. I know my wife is exactly the same, she tells me so all the time.



posted on Sep, 24 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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Since some have seemed interested and this is a chance to be informative, I'm spending another evening writing to expand a bit more about some of the points raised even if they wander somewhat beyond the original scope of this thread. I hope no one minds? Again, this isn't because I have some massive ego or think I am anybody special but how else are others going to learn about everyday people like me unless we talk? Besides, who doesn't like reading personal and revealing stuff about other people?

Please do keep in mind that I, like everybody else trans-whatever is unique and our journeys and backgrounds all different and I am not representative of any community. I am just me. I know few can wade through my massive posts too and my writing style is hard to read for some and for that I apologize.


originally posted by: eletheia

That's so sad ... my oldest daughter died at just one year older than your mother, and I know just how young that is .... at 62 you could be my daughter!

I'm so sorry for you. No parent should ever have to face the loss of a child. I can't imagine anything more painful.


If you were to ask me which were my best years, they would have to be between 42 and 44 years, but you can never say never I'm still very optimistic LOL!!

This made me think about what were my "best" years but I am reluctant because I've had so many and I value them all equally. There were times in my life that were very adventure filled, exciting and memorable and I did some crazy things that certainly are among my "best" years with some major highlights but there have also been times when loves and relationships, security and intimacy were the best years. Getting the healthcare I needed and going through all that was one of the best things in my life. Being completely alone and doing whatever the hell I want whenever I want like I am now has made for some good times too as long as I keep myself amused. I'm in-between hobbies right now.

As I've written here, I had some pretty tough challenges growing up and along with them, a number of years I'd really rather forget with things that aren't always comfortable to remember but I can't look back at these memories too negatively because the difficult things I went through are what made and what makes me, me. Sure, there were some dark and painful times in my life but these have only taught me to appreciate the good times all that much more.


I was very lucky to have my mother live reasonably fit and well to the age of 94yrs. So I do understand that you missed out on one of the best female to female relationships one can ever have...

I would have never made it without my mother. Our relationship was adversarial and our communication style augmentative but we were very close. I put her through a lot and caused lot of pain, confusion and embarrassment but she was always there for me. Accepting me as her daughter was more of a relief than anything to her because she had always known who I was and how hard my life had been and she had seen me struggle. Changing my name and pronouns and living my life as a girl was the only thing that really made any sense for me and she knew it as it had been a long time coming and was inevitable. She became my biggest supporter and advocate and dearest friend. Oh, we still had our fights and some big ones but the seven years of mother/daughter time we had together before she died is something I will cherish fondly forever.


originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
This is very interesting. I never thought about that, but you're right. I worked out my male/female balance naturally, without the influence of how my gender is supposed to behave. I was a tomboy, climbed trees, played rough and LOVED trucks! Especially the earth movers. I still do. But I also had dolls and an E-Z bake oven, and planned for my future, when "Mr. Right" would whisk me away to have babies and live happily ever after. But all of that is socially acceptable for a girl. It's not so acceptable for a boy to play with dolls and plan their wedding.

My childhood was weird. I've never known a time in my life that I've ever thought of myself as anything but a girl but when your parents are trying to raise you as a boy, it's rather problematic. People say kids are too young to know these things but how many five or six year olds have any doubt if they're boys or girls? Maybe I didn't understand it or couldn't explain it but all I knew was I couldn't look like or be treated like the person that I was on the inside and that was a big deal. I couldn't even talk about it but who I was came out in my personality, actions and behaviors. If I couldn't be a girl, I sure as hell wasn't going to act like a boy and I hated and avoided traditional boy things like sports, rough and tumble play, trucks, getting dirty etc., or anything that would lead others to think I was a boy. None of that was really in my nature anyway. I played with dolls and played house and had tea parties. I had Barbies and EZ-Bake Ovens too. I did needlepoint and cross-stitch and drew and painted. I went overboard with all this just to show people who I was. It was the only way I could express myself and it was all too obvious.

What was socially acceptable for a boy went out the window in my early childhood, I was irrepressible and this caused considerable social and even family problems. My school years were hard and literally scarring. High school was intolerable as I pushed the boundaries of what I could get away appearance wise and not knowing if I was a girl or a boy confused a lot of people and caused trouble. Upon graduation, I was finally free from the things holding me back.

In many ways, my life didn't really begin until then. Being a whole person and not some in-between or mixed gender "it" made a huge difference. I didn't have to hide anymore or pretend and because you could then tell who the person was inside by looking at the outside, some of the previous ways I had used to express myself became less important. It became easier to accept those parts of my personality I considered more masculine qualities because I had become a girl, socially at least at that point, and nothing was ever going to change that.

For a while at least I went a bit overboard toward the feminine side. After years of repression and not being able to do things or look a certain way, naturally there was some catching up to do developing my own style. There were a few months of belated adolescence trying and experimenting with new things but after I became more comfortable with myself and learned that others accepted me as a girl no matter what I did, I did more things and I became a more well-rounded person. Natal girls can be as butch or tomboyish as they want but are still female. I didn't really have that luxury and stuck to things traditional and typical as much as I could because at that I time, my body did have boy parts and that was the last thing in the world I wanted anyone to know or suspect. Ugh!

-continued



posted on Sep, 24 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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Then there was the whole thing of trying to get help from the medical profession that was a whole lot different in the 1970's than today. There was a lot of cautious gatekeeping especially because I was a teenager and practically nothing was known about trans youth at the time or that it was even a thing. Expectations and requirements were very high. If you weren't pretty enough, not feminine enough, didn't fit in well enough, you couldn't get help so whatever masculine aspects I felt I had about my personality were even further suppressed. These standards were relaxed over time and why there are more visibly trans people than there used to be. Those of the 70's and earlier were expected to be invisible, blend into the woodwork and keep quiet about the whole thing and that's what I did and have done the rest of my life except for the things I've posted here.

Somewhat ironic that there were still restrictions or limitations about how gender was expressed when I'd fought my whole life trying to live without restrictions on my personality. When the whole process of physically changing sex was done and dusted, I became much more accepting of those elements of myself I did feel were perhaps a bit more masculine. A lot of that came with the confidence of knowing whatever I did or was interested in or how I was dressed (or undressed) I was always going to be a girl and female and nothing was ever going to change that.

There are still a few things I police my gender about but that's just a lifelong thing I'll take to the grave. I think most people do this but aren't aware or conscious of it but most people don't come into this world with gender dysphoria either? I've done a few things or have a few interests that I don't consider to be typically feminine pursuits that aren't even that big of a deal but I'm still sensitive about or aware of them. I've never let being a girl stop me from doing anything though. My measure or yardstick has been if it is something that natal girls do, then it's fair game for me as well. I like motorcycles and mechanical and technical things and love to watch racing which are all somewhat atypical. I do think about it sometimes but have learned these things are just things I like and it is okay to not gender code them in any specific way.

You know, you can read various definitions of what it means to be transgender or transsexual and they all get simplified into something like feeling that your social role or anatomy doesn't feel right or fit with the body you were born with but this falls short of what it is actually like. When these incongruities do exist, it makes one hyper aware and very sensitive of everything to do with the differences between men and women or those things we attribute to gender as well as the differences between the physical sexes. It gets pretty noisy.


I think you're really strong and brave to reveal yourself here as you always have. Great discussion!

It has been a good discussion and I really appreciate that and for all the thoughtful comments. I'm kind of hung up on the being brave thing though as getting some of these things out and sharing them with other people has been valuable to me and hasn't taken any real courage. Collectively, I've written and shared more here about my childhood, my history, my thoughts and emotions than I have anywhere with anyone but I think that's good for me in a way and is cheaper than a therapist. It may also help people come to better understanding of those like me even though we are all different and unique. I'm not "out" in life, don't march in the streets, wave flags or make YouTube videos but if some of the things I say here do get through to a couple of folks, then it feels like I have done something to help bring awareness about people like me and those similar which can only be helpful in the long run. I'm a nice and wholly genuine person and don't know if that comes through or not but I would like to hope it does?


originally posted by: Bluesma
Well, Freija, your life experience is interesting, and your mind beautiful. I enjoyed reading your meanderings!

Thank you and I was hoping you would see this and chime in. I always appreciate your thoughts and perspectives.


Women on TV, I will look at very superficial things- her clothes, hair, make up. I pick up new ideas this way, of things to try, or not. I like studying the way beauty has so many different shapes, sizes, colors- seeing how different elements come together to make a fascinating face, for example. -Because often I am very drawn to watching women who just have very unusual looks.

Yes, me too. What draws us into watching other women though? Earlier in this thread, I wondered if it's because I have a certain of physical attraction to other women but there's a whole lot more to it than just that. Are our eyes just drawn to things of esthetic beauty that are pleasing or is it a way we measure and compare our own attractiveness or is there just some kinship or identification going on there? Is it all of that?

I look at men too and probably in a more overtly sexual way more likely to spawn fantasies about sex and romance and relationships but I'm very particular and have a type. Men seem so much more one-dimensional and not nearly as interesting and something almost like a necessary evil in many ways - not that men are evil or actually one-dimensional but you know what I mean, maybe? I've also had some issues learning to trust and feel safe around men stemming back to nothing but abuse and violence from boys during my school years and a hella ton of rejection as an adult. I got over that for the most part and have had some great relationships with guys but it does take someone special to catch my eye that I'd be willing to be vulnerable with or open my heart to. I know there have been men that have loved me deeply that I have loved in return but on a purely emotional level, my relationships with other women have been more connected or vibrant or something nebulous I can't really put into words then there's the whole thing of dealing with my medical history too that women seem so much more understanding about. I might be more physically attracted to men but my emotional attachments to women have always been stronger, on a another level or maybe just different? Now I'm the one that's rambling!


Although, now, in person, I think some of my defense reflexes come in, and I look at body language more, inflection and tone of voice, behaviorisms. I sense where a woman in at, if she is a competative or jealous type to watch out for, if she is honest, or kindhearted. This is just an instinct to help us find and form a good alliances with others, I think.

Isn't if funny how quickly these things are picked up on often without saying a word? Without explanation or reason, you sometimes just know that someone is going to be a bitch or not like you or that you aren't going to like them. There's just a vibe you get sometimes that's more than just BFFT's "people chunking" or relying on stereotypes. Is it just easier to read another woman's emotions and feelings through things like body language and tone because we're more in tune or is as you said just instinct and intuition?

-continued
edit on 9/24/2016 by Freija because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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I listen to all these things and have been wrong on more than one occasion so always try to give people a second chance to make a first impression. I hope the lady that set off your warning sensors that you're expected to carpool with is one of those that's not what they seemed at first.


But anyway.... yeah, we do check each other out. From what my husband and my dad have told me, men check out other men that way too- though they told me it is a lot of comparison- to see who is potentially stronger, more powerful, more handsome, etc. ? I don't personally compare myself that way with other women. I tend to see them like colors of the rainbow, equal yet different. I don't really perceive a vertical hierarchy type of difference. (except perhaps social or economic class, which is sort of separate from who they are as a person)

People are funny critters, aren't we? With all our social classes and status levels, those hierarchies and rankings we create and observe and how we try to place ourselves somewhere within the strata is all still fairly primal when it comes down to it.

Thanks, Bluesma, for your thought provoking contributions.


originally posted by: InTheLight
This an interesting topic because of late I am working with very high powered women and I have taken the train of thought to put myself behind the lens, as an observer not a judge. I do not watch much T.V., so I cannot speak to that.

As I observe the high-powered and not so high-powered women at work, I see great stress and frustration - what from(?) - I can only imagine (but we all know the workloads of women in and out of the house). But, I also see great dedication and that acceptance of great responsibility that most women take on in life.

And women are considered the fairer/weaker sex but I think we all know that's just not true. I also think these responsibilities and weights are more or less unspoken things too because they're usually just things that come with the territory.


Most of my life, growing up in the 60s onwards, I was an athlete and was labelled as a 'tomboy', because I preferred climbing trees, running, playing with frogs/snakes, wood working and I naturally challenged anyone who told me I could not do something because I was a girl. I still challenge anyone who restricts my desired life choices, but the label has changed depending upon the bias and/or ignorance of the labeller.

It is sad how we get pigeonholed into categories and labeled even if we don't want to be or think it's fair or accurate while yet others feel the need to label every aspect about themselves. I'll respect whatever label someone wants to use but to me, we're all just people regardless of how diverse we may be.


As a young female athlete, most of my time was taken up practicing, so any time I spent with other girls, was usually playing with dolls, etc., which I found boring. My competitiveness showed only in attaining my personal goals of winning in sports, which I did achieve and which has helped to shape my self-esteem. I had many female friends growing up, but that was due to my other traits, mainly joking around and being a kind person, and true friend.

Being a kind person and true friend epitomizes what it is to be a decent human being. Finding something that does help to shape and build self-esteem is something valuable in every young person's life and I'm glad you found what worked for you. Self-esteem and friendships weren't really part of my growing up years. I had obstacles and those things had to wait until a bit later in life.


When I was younger, I loved to follow fashion trends (buying expensive runway outfits which I found a discount outlet store long ago) and I still do, but nowadays I do look to see what other women's fashion choices are and if any appeal to me, but I always revert back to my bohemian personality. It is not that I am trying to behave or look differently from other women, I always have been different (including fighting injustices; protesting) and the bohemian look appeals to me, including being braless.

Most other women's fashion choices I see, seem to reflect a 'fitting in' look rather than a 'this is who I am' look. Sometimes I think some women are afraid to step out of the boxes society has stuck them into, even by stepping out of line with what is an acceptable look/attire. (My daughter just dyed her hair purple/red and so good on her!).

Not quite sure I can picture the quintessential bohemian look but I think I get the general idea? I've never been particularly fashionable or sought to follow trends. I worked in offices the first 20 years of my working life and wore dresses and heels and the style and look thing was kind of competitive and I did do some of that fitting in stuff but I still mostly did my own thing and still do. Doing my own thing has always kind of been my deal. I got out of that rat race quite some time ago and mostly am casual - jeans, simple tops and no high heels unless I'm feeling racy. I work from home 80% of the time, most days in something I would never go out in public in like old shorts and holy t-shirts and indeed braless. I'm a little too old to be flaunting the girls around the neighborhood anymore - gravity and all, you know?


So Freija, I can only speak from my long life's perspectives and I don't let anyone dictate to me how I should live my life, in any way.

Oh, I have my influences but if you've read my writings, you know I've gone to extremes to live life my way on my own terms so I can relate. Thanks for joining in.


originally posted by: wtbengineer
Thanks for sharing Freija, I enjoyed reading your innermost thoughts. It's wonderful that you have a place to go and find people that are willing to listen to you and not judge. I'm not saying everyone here is that tolerant, but there are a good few.

Thank you, wtbengineer! Posts where I have shared personal thoughts and feelings usually go well. In others, not so much and I've been involved in some real crap here and heard some truly unpleasant things. Fortunately, I usually write so much people fall asleep halfway through which spares me from some of the negativity.


We are thrilled watching the joy my wife was able to bring into these guys lives.

That's really a special and a wonderfully altruistic thing to do. Even if I could have carried children, I don't think that is something I could have ever done.


Anyway, thanks again for sharing. And I think you are completely 'normal' compared to other women as far as the way you look at them. I know my wife is exactly the same, she tells me so all the time.

"Normal" maybe but "completely", is something even I would debate.


It's been a pleasure, everyone. Thank you!



posted on Sep, 24 2016 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Freija





How do you look at other women and what do you see? What do you notice first and how do you form your initial impression of them? Do you look for similarities or familiarities in their appearance or manner? Do you compare yours to theirs?


(BTW I used to do that too, just now I don't have time for THAT anxiety I have enough going on as it is.)

Honestly, these days I honest to god look for "good" personality traits or quirk or eccentricity. I look for energy levels and humour. I used to worry about being too tall, or that I'm not voluptuous and too bony. I said ef the jealousy cause I really don't need that in me.



posted on Sep, 24 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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originally posted by: Mousygretchen
a reply to: Freija

(BTW I used to do that too, just now I don't have time for THAT anxiety I have enough going on as it is.)

Honestly, these days I honest to god look for "good" personality traits or quirk or eccentricity. I look for energy levels and humour. I used to worry about being too tall, or that I'm not voluptuous and too bony. I said ef the jealousy cause I really don't need that in me.


I don't really understand your anxiety unless you are super insecure. Are you honestly telling me you don't look at or check out other women for first impressions before you have a chance to determine personality traits or eccentricities? Making comparisons or looking for similarities or differences shouldn't really be a competition that makes you feel down on yourself or that you don't measure up somehow. FWIW, I am familiar with your story and some of the issues that you have and am not trying to be mean.

As far a jealousy, I spoke about that a little earlier in the thread. First of all, you are right, ef that. As I was writing last night, I had a crappy sci-fi b-movie on the TV that had an attractive young girl in a leading role. (big surprise) She had a very ethnic look and her character was Iranian. Her face was really pretty and her dark eyes and mouth gorgeous. She had a nice body too. (do average looking or less than attractive people even appear on TV?)

This didn't make me jealous. In fact, because of this thread and these kinds of things on my mind, I did stop to reflect for a moment on what I was thinking. My first thought was that she was lucky to be so pretty and good for her. I enjoyed looking at her, she was pleasing to my eye. I didn't turn this into some negativity or inadequacy about myself but did acknowledge she was prettier than me. So what? There's millions of women prettier or more attractive than me. I think you'll find every woman thinks that. I also know a lot of women would think that I was prettier or more attractive than them so it goes around plus I, as we all are, am a whole lot more than just my face, my body and my looks. If I based my self-worth or that of others on those things alone, it would be pretty superficial of me and going from what others have said, I'm a pretty deep person with a lot of my own special talents, attributes and unique experiences.

Sometimes I am in awe of beautiful women and I find things of beauty in most but it doesn't intimidate me or make me anxious because I am merely average looking plus I know that extremely good looking people have issues of their own I'm glad I don't have to deal with. Heck, I think sometimes people don't take me seriously because I'm blonde and I imagine if I was really pretty too, people would think I was a bimbo and take me less seriously unless things moved into the realm of beautiful people privilege and that's the topic of another thread.



posted on Sep, 26 2016 @ 07:15 AM
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--I debated long and hard about posting this. In the end, I tossed a coin to decide.--

It is awkward to bump this thread but I'm not sure my multi-quoted replies were seen by the intended people or easily picked out of my mega-posts? Sorry about that. These are just some additional thoughts that weren't worth starting another thread about that were somewhat relevant to this discussion and on my mind that wanted out.

If you're like me, I'll sometimes look at the end of a thread to see if I want to go back to the beginning. There's a lot of reading and detail here and some of it is rather deep. Some around here appreciate this level complexity and discussion while others move on at anything longer than a Twitter post. If you're just coming in, this thread probably isn't for you if you're in the latter group. This is for the readers around here as I know my posts require some effort and time to wade through. My appreciation to those that manage.

I've been in quite the pensive and philosophical mood the last few days while also under a lot of stress from potentially catastrophic work problems. My normal sleep cycle has been anything but since mid-week but things went well today. I prevented a company from losing $10,000 and putting 50 people out of work for a day or maybe even more and they were gracious and thankful. They're also going to get a big bill. I had my ego stroked and it feels really good to have done a difficult and responsible job well so I'm a couple of glasses of wine into the evening pounding away at the keyboard and winding down with more of this stuff that seems to be coming out raw. Indulge me if you will?

It's funny. I didn't want this discussion to really be about me or even trans issues so much but I did wonder how that may color the way I see things. It's hard to not go into a little bit more depth on some of these things because I want people to know what my experience of being someone who has changed gender and sex has been like. I think there's some educational value in that but at the same time, I don't want these factors to be overestimated or to be seen as a "trans woman" either rather than as just an ordinary woman which is how I consider myself and the way others see me.

This identity thing and how we see ourselves runs deep and I have my sensitivities. My childhood years and early adolescence, while a huge part of who I am, seem foggy or disconnected from the life I've grown up to have. I don't really feel that I have the need or feel like I should have need to defend myself to anyone but I've paid my dues in the girl's club and lived my entire adult life as just an "ordinary woman" and not something other. Maybe in saying this I'm just being preemptively defensive due to some past experiences here in other threads? At any rate...

Different? Sure but I'm not reality challenged. Like I said earlier if you have gender dysphoria or are trans, you will always have it or be that way and you will never forget regardless of how well integrated into society or invisible you are or what kind of surgeries you have or how high your confidence level. You can have an outwardly perfectly normal life in all aspects but the internal dialog never goes completely away. Don't let anyone tell you it does.

That is the curse part of being of being like this - remembering that I wasn't born female and how screwed up that is and how it has influenced my life. It can be turned into a non-issue or something far in the back of your mind or in your past with the right therapies but it will always nag you or be one of those most private and personal thoughts that can't help but cross your mind from time to time or all the time. That part of being this way sucks. It's mental overhead or baggage that I think it's natural to want to believe doesn't exist or to ignore it. I'll add that I'm not stupid, blind or unrealistic about it either and know that some will always consider me broken. However weird or otherworldly it may seem from the outside though,it has always been a part of what seems normal for me for it has been my reality forever.

Gah! I really hate this sometimes.

It's hard to not forget and I'm sensitive about modern trans issues but have lived my life of privilege as someone accepted as being cisgender and issues about bathrooms and being trans and "passing" and everything heard recently in the media has never really applied to me but it does give me a lot of things to think about or things on my plate that I wish that weren't there sometimes.

I've mentioned in other threads of dealing with my own internalized transphobia or of hating having anything to do with all of this. That's true. I do. I wish this part of my history never existed and is something I wish I never had to deal with. I find being this way more of an embarrassment than something I want to embrace or identify with regardless of political pressure to do so. It's private and it's just a f'd up thing to have to tell someone or to be perceived as anything but an average female as people are wont to do if they know. That's a horrible feeling.

Although I recognize my differences, all I've ever wanted out of life was to be a regular girl. That's behind everything I've ever done or at the core of my personality and who I am. This is something I've had to fight for that others take for granted. How I got chosen for this "special privilege" I'll never know and I don't really care but it sucks? Just to add for clarity, being who I am as a woman, a person and in the ways I'm female is wonderful and there was never any other way or thing I could have been. I'm happy about that and nothing else was in the cards for me but this whole thing of being born physically male is haunting or like a bad dream. It's hard to talk about or even imagine and since I started this thread even wondering how much being this way may influence my perceptions, it is obviously something I think about still. It can be frustrating.

Whew! That was quite a load and tomorrow, probably more revealing than I'd wish I'd been. These are really personal things I hope I don't regret trying to express because I don't always get my emotions across well at times even though my head and heart are full of feels. There's a conflict that goes on inside me between wanting my uniqueness and individuality to be known and wanting to be seen as normal and like everybody else. It's hard sometimes. By sharing my thoughts and feelings here, it is becoming clear which one is winning out which I can only justify by thinking the more someone can get to know somebody like me, the more they might understand (or be convinced more than ever we're off our rocker). My only real solace is that 99% of the people that know me in the real world know nothing of this or what goes on in my little pea brain on top of everything else in a person's normal life. As i said, it can be noisy. Some days more than others.

All is quiet now though and I'm off to bed at 5:00 AM and hope the phone doesn't start ringing at eight o' clock.

Respectful remarks, insightful observations or curious comments welcome. Thanks for reading if you did?



posted on Sep, 26 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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My sharing my thoughts and feelings here, it is becoming clear which one is winning out which I can only justify by thinking the more someone can get to know somebody like me, the more they might understand (or be convinced more than ever we're off our rocker). My only real solace is that 99% of the people that know me in the real world know nothing of this or what goes on in my little pea brain on top of everything else in a person's normal life. As i said, it can be noisy. Some days more than others.


It almost seems like you are staying in the closet for real or imagined fears of how people will judge you. You got a glimpse of what you will face out there, from some responses you read in other threads here at ATS. You do have a choice to not let others' negativity bring you down. You do have a choice to just be your unique self and not compare or try to fit in to (what?) some type of 'norm' that someone else thinks should be the 'norm' (regular woman? - whatever that looks like?).

So little scientific research has been done to find the answers for why we are -as we are - physically, emotionally, intellectually etc.

I think you are on the right track to view women (and men?) as just people trying to make the best of what has been put in front of them in life and not superficially or judgmentally in a negative light to make yourself feel better about yourself, or pigeon-hole people into a misguided societal programming stream of 'one size' fits all.
edit on 26-9-2016 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2016 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: Freija

Normalcy has never been something that I've been overly concerned with. Actually I enjoy being unique or different from the crowd. I learned at an early age that peoples collective intelligence often diminishes and more progressively so as the group gets larger. Don't get me wrong I still very much hope that my peers or society in general see me as and treat me as a woman. Now when it comes to the dysphoria itself I think that we all are affected by that in varying degrees, some people's dysphoria is worse or stronger than others if you will. Yourself for example, your dysphoria was strong enough to compel you to take measures earlier in life and in a time when this was far less accepted across society. Kudo's to you for being so brave or perhaps you were just so driven by it that you did not care about how society felt and good for you. I regret waiting as long as I did but I have my reason's but generally speaking I also do not feel as though my dysphoria is as strong as some others.

Take a scenario for example, I have seen trans women that are like 6'5" with very masculine facial features yet they still soldier on and live their life as women and wish to be seen as such. I personally don't understand that as they have to realize that there is no way in hell they are passing in public (which is important to me) not that that is what determines one's "Transness" or not. Still I can not help but feel like if I were cursed with that stature and those features I most likely would not have pursued transitioning. Again I think that that is because my dysphoria is not as strong or compelling as others. I was blessed with a thin athletic frame, soft facial features, small hands and feet so my transition has been relatively smooth despite having done so later in life. I've also found that it's usually these types that are the moset vocal about being allowed to use the bathroom they identify with. When it comes to that I can't help but think "gee no wonder people are looking at you cross eyed when you use the bathroom." You look like a giant lumberjack in a skirt that is quite frankly too short and wearing 5 inch heels that make you almost 7 ft. Like how can someone not know that their appearance is intimidating, out of place and prone to garnering attention looking like that.

Each individual has different priorities when it comes to their very own personal journey. I recently met a friend of mine's roommate who is also trans at a bar I frequent. I was sitting at the bar with another friend of mine and her gentleman for the evening when this girl approached us and asked me if my name was what it is. I said yes and replied "You must be so and so's roommate" she replied yes and stood there chatting with us for a bit. Everyone was polite and friendly as we were getting to know one another but when she left another conversation started. The gentleman that was with us remarked how "that kid has a long way to go" and that if he saw her walking down the street he would think that's a boy in a dress while asserting that he would see my friend and I as women. He also said that maybe if she didn't have such a robotic walk then maybe but she still has strong facial features and short hair. We also found it odd that one of the first surgeries she had was vocal cord surgery. Always willing to play devils advocate I brought up that we did not know how deep her voice was to begin with and maybe for her that was something that she was very uncomfortable with to which everyone agreed. My friend and I also could tell that the girl was wearing her roomate's clothes which didn't fit that well. That seemed odd to the both of us because in our minds we agree that a wardrobe is one of the first things you spend money on. Again we all have our priorities and insecurities that drive us in whatever direction we go.

I joke with my friends sometimes that I'm a giant Amazon because I am on the taller side for a female. I am 5'10" and most of my friends are shorter than me so I rarely wear heels despite having a collection that makes some of my friends jealous sometimes. Because of this I only pursue men that are 6 foot plus and 6'2" or taller is preferred. Large strong gentlemen also make me feel safe. There is only one or maybe two more surgeries I would like to have in order to feel complete. I'm a bit out of shape right now but it is intentional as I have been saving up fat for a Brazilian butt lift so the end goal is worth it but man it sucks walking around with this pouch. I was 154 last summer which is a nice and thin but healthy weight for me but have hovered around 170 since saving up my fat. I'm very insecure right now but know that in time it will pay off and I will have a lovely shaped body.

My friends till misgender me sometimes but I don't cry about it I just remind them to please refer to me with female pronouns and that I understand that it will take some time to get used to. If they do it in public that is a little different as it is embarrassing to be outed like that in front of a stranger but still a forgivable offense as it does not come from a place of malice or ill intent.



posted on Sep, 26 2016 @ 03:45 PM
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originally posted by: Freija

It's hard to not forget and I'm sensitive about modern trans issues but have lived my life of privilege as someone accepted as being cisgender and issues about bathrooms and being trans and "passing" and everything heard recently in the media has never really applied to me but it does give me a lot of things to think about or things on my plate that I wish that weren't there sometimes.

I've mentioned in other threads of dealing with my own internalized transphobia or of hating having anything to do with all of this. That's true. I do. I wish this part of my history never existed and is something I wish I never had to deal with. I find being this way more of an embarrassment than something I want to embrace or identify with regardless of political pressure to do so. It's private and it's just a f'd up thing to have to tell someone or to be perceived as anything but an average female as people are wont to do if they know. That's a horrible feeling.

Although I recognize my differences, all I've ever wanted out of life was to be a regular girl. That's behind everything I've ever done or at the core of my personality and who I am. This is something I've had to fight for that others take for granted. How I got chosen for this "special privilege" I'll never know and I don't really care but it sucks? Just to add for clarity, being who I am as a woman, a person and in the ways I'm female is wonderful and there was never any other way or thing I could have been. I'm happy about that and nothing else was in the cards for me but this whole thing of being born physically male is haunting or like a bad dream. It's hard to talk about or even imagine and since I started this thread even wondering how much being this way may influence my perceptions, it is obviously something I think about still. It can be frustrating.

These are really personal things I hope I don't regret trying to express because I don't always get my emotions across well at times even though my head and heart are full of feels. There's a conflict that goes on inside me between wanting my uniqueness and individuality to be known and wanting to be seen as normal and like everybody else. It's hard sometimes.


I have a question - although directed to you, it is general and not meant to be

personal, and if you prefer not to answer that's OK.


If I had breast implants, or like the poster above my bottom topped up, or my

nose reshaped, or any other kind of personal surgery. It would become me

and i would never refer to it .... feeling that it was no one else's business.


Recently there has been a lot of controversy about toilets and rest rooms etc. and

who should use them. I don't see what the fuss is about as I see it after a transition

surely the *new* sex is who the person has become?


You have been 'female' for most of your life .... as have others, so why the need to

refer to yourselves as transgender/transitioned surely you have become in every

way the person you want to be and have left the 'baggage' behind. As I referred in

the start of my post if I had in my way taken advantage of surgery, I wouldn't refer

to it again .... It would be my business?



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
It almost seems like you are staying in the closet for real or imagined fears of how people will judge you. You got a glimpse of what you will face out there, from some responses you read in other threads here at ATS.


Staying in the closet or living in stealth as they say makes life so much easier plus there's an element of physical safety involved in doing so. It's also not so much a matter of being afraid of other people's judgment or caring what other people think. I have pretty tough skin. Disregarding all this trans business, even as a child I have never been afraid to be my own person and do my own thing which in itself has always kind of singled me out as different and individualistic. I have no problem with that at all and am of proud of my quirkiness. I'm kind of a geek/nerd, a bit of a gearhead and during those times I have had relationships with other women, not been shy about it or worried about what other people might think.

BUT, when it does come down to being someone that has had a transsexual experience in life, I don't think that unless someone has been down that path, that they really understand the difference of what it feels like to be known as someone cisgender compared to being known as someone transgender which in case people haven't noticed, transgender isn't a word I'm particularly fond of or use to describe myself.

When people know that you are someone that has changed sex or does not present themselves as the gender typically associated with their birth sex, it changes their perceptions even if only subtly. It makes them scrutinize in ways that are different or not thought of when they don't know. Beyond my high school years, I've never had anyone treat me poorly or be disrespectful in the real world because of who I am but you're still considered a curiosity or an oddity or as something other or somehow less authentic and genuine if they do know. Knowing changes people and this isn't just paranoia. I doubt there's a transgender or transsexual person out there that won't back that up. We have our own intuition or sense about these things.

I do not have a single person in my life that knew me before I was 18 or as anything other than a girl and that includes relatives and family because I don't have any. There are a small handful of people that do know my history but none really have been privy to the details at the level I've shared here since "coming out" in May of last year. Even with some the people I do know in life that know, it isn't something that is talked about or discussed but I don't think it is something that anybody really forgets. Hell, it isn't even something I can forget but have learned to live with it. I was encouraged to tell my story by a former member here who was like me. I only did this to help inform and educate about these matters. At that time, I had been a member here for eight years and never mentioned it previously.


originally posted by: eletheia

I have a question - although directed to you, it is general and not meant to be personal, and if you prefer not to answer that's OK.

If I had breast implants, or like the poster above my bottom topped up, or my nose reshaped, or any other kind of personal surgery. It would become me and i would never refer to it .... feeling that it was no one else's business.


I really don't mind trying to answer personal questions if they are asked sincerely as yours have been. What you really don't understand though is that changing gender or changing sex is not the same to others as having a boob or nose job. With those types of things, you're still the same person before as after. As much as I have always been me to myself and not a different person inside, when it comes to others this "baggage" of having outwardly been something different even if done poorly or a long time ago is usually too significant to ignore. It's kind of a big deal to some, actually.


You have been 'female' for most of your life .... as have others, so why the need to refer to yourselves as transgender/transitioned surely you have become in every way the person you want to be and have left the 'baggage' behind. As I referred in the start of my post if I had in my way taken advantage of surgery, I wouldn't refer
to it again .... It would be my business?


I get where you're coming from - why don't we just shut up about it. Well, first of all I don't refer to myself as "transgender" and have nothing to do with LGBTQxyz communities and have shut up about it except for here. I've met maybe five or six others trans people in my entire life and not for the first time until I was 22 (1977) but still feel some kinship as part of a marginalized demographic that's a little more complicated than post rhinoplasty patients.

There's never been anything wrong about my gender, at least the internalized part of it or my personality that needed changing or "transing" other than it didn't align with the sex of the body I was born with. What changed in my life was the sex of my body to go along with who I already was and had always been. Technically speaking, this makes me transsexual but that is more of an experience I went through rather than something I am or identify as. I prefer to be known and thought of as just a regular woman and when people haven't been told, that's what they do. BTW, thanks for quoting "female". Even with your open-mindedness, my femaleness gets othered and that kind of illustrates my point.

I don't tell people these things about me or bring it up in casual conversation and you can't tell either but there are times when it is necessary. Not that I haven't done it a few times in my crazy 20's but getting romantically or sexually involved with a man and not mentioning this is the number one way to be killed or severely beaten up if they should find out somehow. This is a rather basic survival skill or common street knowledge for those like me. You can do it (not say anything) but the potential is high that it will end badly.

Besides that, the things I have been through in life are a pretty big part of it and not really something one would want to hide in any kind of a meaningful relationship with another person but I've done that too. I was in an intimate, loving and sexual relationship with another woman that didn't know for two years but the feeling of deceit by omission about my past became overwhelming and we had "the talk". "Stealth" is great for the masses but not practical for those we are intimate with or close to so in many or most situations, it is impossible to just never refer to it again. Of course yes, I told my future husband before we went all the way in the bedroom which was one of the scariest things I'd ever done. He was not the sort of guy that handles these things well but he did.

While on the subject of sex, people wonder so I'll answer for educational purposes. My lady parts look like and work any other woman's do. There's nothing unusual or weird going on down there.

-continued- Damn!



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 01:50 AM
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Recently there has been a lot of controversy about toilets and rest rooms etc. and who should use them. I don't see what the fuss is about as I see it after a transition surely the *new* sex is who the person has become?


This is where it gets tricky. Of the hundreds of thousands of people that have socially transitioned full-time to live as the gender opposite their sex at birth, only somewhere around 1/3 actually undergo sex reassignment surgery. This isn't even on the radar for some or isn't possible due to financial or health problems. Taking anti-androgens and hormones for feminization and having boobs facilitates changing gender but even having an orchiectomy (removal of the testes) is not the same as having a "sex change" operation. This means a majority of transgender women may have an evil penis lurking about for raping babies and scaring wives. As ridiculous as this sounds, that's why bathrooms are a problem even though they have doors for privacy and transgender women as a rule, are very discrete. It's just stupid. Also know that "transitioning" is different for everyone and may have no particular end goal or timeline. Rather than just a before and after, there are many shades of grey so things aren't as cut and dried as you propose.

There really should be no fuss about this, there hasn't been one in the past and trans people have been using the bathrooms that have been best for them since there have been bathrooms or like forever. There are a lot of laws and a ton of confusing things that makes life for trans people challenging and unavoidably political and why it is very difficult to just forget about it all and go your merry way. These things vary from state to state. From a technically legal standpoint, even with a vajayjay, I can't pee in a woman's bathroom in North Carolina. I'll explain why if anyone asks but regardless of any stupid law, I'm not going in the men's toilet if the right one is available. I'm a rebel!


You do have a choice to not let others' negativity bring you down. You do have a choice to just be your unique self and not compare or try to fit in to (what?) some type of 'norm' that someone else thinks should be the 'norm' (regular woman? - whatever that looks like?).


Oh, people piss me off more than they bring me down if they get any real reaction from me at all and it would be a mistake to think I can't face a little negativity particularly when whatever negativity I have faced has been mostly just words on a screen here from idiots. How seriously can you take that? Sticks and stones and all. There is a definite stigma attached to being trans that I simply prefer to avoid in real life because quite honestly it categorizes me a man which is something I've never been or was. Not that I'm going to cry in my beer or retreat to my safe space because of it, but it's kind of unfair.

Thanks to everyone for continuing this discussion and for your comments. I appreciate that.



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

Normalcy has never been something that I've been overly concerned with.


Yeah, it's really overrated.


... some people's dysphoria is worse or stronger than others if you will. Yourself for example, your dysphoria was strong enough to compel you to take measures earlier in life and in a time when this was far less accepted across society. Kudo's to you for being so brave or perhaps you were just so driven by it that you did not care about how society felt and good for you.


Blindly driven but yet at the same time, unconsciously so by some natural unseen forces. I didn't really get it until I started kindergarten, where when compared to other kids, I realized I wasn't like the other girls. Other than the bullying, teasing and getting picked on, I didn't really think about being accepted by society or socially. My parents worried about and faced more problems on the social front than I ever did. I was oblivious and went right on being me. I didn't really feel the backlash of this big time until I hit junior high in 1967. Then things went sideways.


I regret waiting as long as I did but I have my reason's but generally speaking I also do not feel as though my dysphoria is as strong as some others.


Had I been born in recent times, I would have been one of the kids we see today that socially transition in early primary school but that simply wasn't possible during my growing up years. Hell, even cross-dressing was illegal in my state until 1973. My only comfort was I was able to start growing out my hair after the 3rd grade and wasn't stopped from doing typical girl things. I couldn't look like a girl (except for my hair) or dress like one but the things I was allowed to get away with kept me sane. My folks were really the pioneers here allowing me the outlets of expression that they did. They took a lot of crap for it too.

By my second year in high school, it was all over. I fought tooth and nail to look like a girl and walked a fine line between doing what I wanted to do and getting kicked out of school. I was sent home several times for clothing or for getting busted wearing make-up. People thought I was gay for a while but eventually figured out I was something weirder. Even with letters from psychologists and psychiatrists that had only managed to keep me out of PE and locker rooms, I was still a boy in name which became ridiculously inappropriate by my senior year. Within weeks of graduation, I put a stop to that nonsense.


Take a scenario for example, I have seen trans women that are like 6'5" with very masculine facial features yet they still soldier on and live their life as women and wish to be seen as such. I personally don't understand that as they have to realize that there is no way in hell they are passing in public (which is important to me) not that that is what determines one's "Transness" or not.


It is kind of unfortunate that gender dysphoria is pretty indiscriminate about body types or "passing privilege". I was lucky on that front. Even as a properly dressed young lad, I was often misgendered and by the time I was 16/17 my femme leaning flavor of carefully calculated androgyny and my very long hair found me being called miss, she and her everywhere except within the school environment and at home at that point. That embarrassed the heck out of my folks when we were out in public and they always felt obligated to correct people until they realized how much doing that hurt my feelers and they stopped doing it.


Still I can not help but feel like if I were cursed with that stature and those features I most likely would not have pursued transitioning.


In times of the past, no one like this would have been able to get help medically transitioning. There was never really a point where I pursued socially transitioning or made any sort of decision about it. It just happened by itself organically and why I don't really have much in the way of transition stories. There wasn't really any boy there to transition from. If I had to mark some point or milestone, the end of it would be when my parents switched to using my girl name and female pronouns right after graduating hs but things had been approaching this point long, long before that. I didn't think much about being correctly affirmed in my gender but if that had been a problem for me, I would have probably just killed myself. After the social things were sorted at 18, the quest to become physically female was overwhelming and it took until I was 22 (1977) before all of that was over but it was all just icing on the cake to round out the life I already had.


I've also found that it's usually these types that are the most vocal about being allowed to use the bathroom they identify with. When it comes to that I can't help but think "gee no wonder people are looking at you cross eyed when you use the bathroom." You look like a giant lumberjack in a skirt that is quite frankly too short and wearing 5 inch heels that make you almost 7 ft. Like how can someone not know that their appearance is intimidating, out of place and prone to garnering attention looking like that.


The most frequent age of transition is between 35 and 45 and while maybe not lumberjacks like you described, this is the primary voice behind the "transgender community". These people have virtually nothing in common with me or my life and maybe some of this guilt by association helps drive my desire to be distanced from the whole thing?


My friends still misgender me sometimes but I don't cry about it I just remind them to please refer to me with female pronouns and that I understand that it will take some time to get used to. If they do it in public that is a little different as it is embarrassing to be outed like that in front of a stranger but still a forgivable offense as it does not come from a place of malice or ill intent.


Yikes! I don't remember ever being misgendered or outed like that. That's got to be unpleasant. Heck, I don't even like to be thought of transgender let alone the wrong gender. I'm not sure how I'd react to that? I feel weird and othered as it is when I even have to go to the doctor that knows.

edit on 9/27/2016 by Freija because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: Freija



Yikes! I don't remember ever being misgendered or outed like that. That's got to be unpleasant. Heck, I don't even like to be thought of transgender let alone the wrong gender. I'm not sure how I'd react to that? I feel weird and othered as it is when I even have to go to the doctor that knows.



I'm pretty chill about it really. I know I'm different and that difference has a name and it's Transgender and I refuse to be made to feel ashamed of or down about who I am, I've had enough of that in my early life. I grew up with a lot of emotional and physical abuse at the hands of a cruel stepfather so I've developed really thick skin. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and I've been through a lot so I'm pretty tough mentally and physically. I didn't touch not a one of my prescribed pain pills after my surgery and the doc was like "really? You must be tough" the pain wasn't bad enough for me to feel like I needed them. I also tend to date guys of larger stature like the guy I'm seeing now is like 6'3" 270 and not the type to let someone disrespect me and get away with it. I'm told I pass by most so that really helps my confidence. I haven't been misgendered by a stranger since near the beginning of taking hormones and man it's crazy the way hormones alone change your face. I'm very much a tomboy when it comes to interests, hobbies, entertainment and such but I'm very glam fab girly in manner of dress.



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Freija

i look at women as i would a male...both are human beings with thoughts and emotions...i used to be a jealuos possesive friend of another woman and i looked at her like she was incomparable friendship...or like a mom or bro...
now i just try to look at all folks with a pleasant thought of not being super possesive...hope i make sense to your question about looking at other women from my perspective as myself.
i usually wait until i am noticed or some other friends point out a person to me...growing up with brothers made me feel like they might feel looking or approaching a woman..shy or not sure what say or how to look at one...by my twenties i got over that stuff and would strive for appropriate complements on the way they look or what cute/sweet factor is in their character..it's not so easy to win a gal over if there is some sorta mean boyfriend near her...so i strive to just make friends with folks as you never know for sure who is spoken for who sometimes!
or they don't have some sort of ring or other notice of being already commited in union with eachother !

this is a great thread and i love the opportunity to share with ya my thoughts on looking at a woman!
happy Tuesday and hope to read more writing from ya!

edit on 27-9-2016 by peppycat because: computer made me put cb emoji!



posted on Sep, 27 2016 @ 10:25 PM
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a reply to: Freija


Yes of course I do that, I'm not going to describe it but yeah I definitely do it. I got over it a few years ago but growing up it would make me feel bad that I'm not as attractive as them.



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