Theoretical discussion about the affect of the Mandela Effect

It is my opinion that the Mandela Effect is happening as a result of non deliberate action. I personally don't believe that it is caused intentionally by agents of destruction, CERN, or any human connection at all. I think it is most likely the result of the very nature of our existence whether it be an Ancestry Simulation, the dream of Vishnu, The Matrix, etc.

For whatever reason it seems that not everyone is experiencing this phenomenon. I don't know if that will eventually change or what it means, if anything at all. I personally have a feeling that it has something to do with the individuals experiencing it but the nature of the phenomenon and the facts about memory and confabulation tend to obfuscate most of the real data whether by accident or design.

I suspect there has been at least one concerted effort on Reddit to obfuscate claimed Effects whether just for research or experimenting or something else I don't know. I also suspect that posts in ME that are made more as inquiries which are then pointed out to be mistakes are sometimes remembered much later on as a reported ME and given as evidence for a flip flop. Most of the data currently online is a confusing and self referencing mess that is doing more to harm any genuine attempts to study the phenomenon then not.

The nature of the Mandela Effect itself leaves that there really is no possible way to either prove or disprove that what is occurring is anything but memory problems and confabulation. I think the search to find the one piece of evidence to prove to the world this is occurring as a non local phenomenon is fruitless. In that sense if one hasn't experienced the Effect there is probably little value to continue asking for proof or imagining that it exists in a form to satisfy them right now. I don't suggest one necessarily starts looking for them personally because there is no joy or happiness in this position. One will soon find them self questioning their own sanity, scared of what else might be incorrect, and at the same time being told by a vast majority of people that they are just terrible at remembering things.

Having said that it is also my opinion that the only tangible thing that can come from this experience are ones actions going forward. For myself and many others I speak with having experienced this phenomenon has either been a part of or the catalyst for a spiritual and intellectual "epiphany" that has shaped and in some cases completely rewritten the way one perceives reality and their environment, as well as their relationships with their fellow human beings. That’s not to say there weren't periods of depression, fear, anger, and maybe a little psychosis or that this is a net positive experience for everyone. I also think there is a certain transition or set of stages that someone new to the experience itself goes through while they process all of this new information and these new ideas.

In the end that result sounds like a lot of new age spiritual mumbo jumbo that we have all heard a million times, a story that is as old as the ages. I don't doubt for a second that is probably by design and I think it can possibly be a starting point for attempting to look past the Bear books and Corporate Logos and see if there is anything that can be learned from the experience is as a whole, regardless of the root cause.

I would like to try and foster that discussion here, but ask that we limit it to a theoretical discussion only. I think there are plenty of spaces to debate the validity of the different theories themselves and argue about particular reports. That’s not to say we can't reference the different theories about the cause whether Memory/Meta/Spiritual/Dumb but I would prefer we leave it at the reference. So I am not asking anyone to cede that is necessarily one cause or another, only that we all suspend our disbelief for a minute and just talk about what if.

Regardless of the cause, I think that the Mandela Effect has ramifications on society in terms of how people perceive reality going forward and how they observe that perception.

Where did all the books go?......billions of books have been bought online by penny dealers by the ton for a decade and burned and destroyed.BILLIONS.

Now everything is online....and what do we find?....the "Mandella Effect".Things change and we have no hard copy backup.

Go figure huh?

originally posted by: sputniksteve

Regardless of the cause, I think that the Mandela Effect has ramifications on society in terms of how people perceive reality going forward and how they observe that perception.

The problem is that the average member of society is unaware that their mental balance is being compromised by the flood of "noise" and disturbance by virtue of being connected to each other (facebook, tweeter, cell phones , etc) . There is no let up. People are also being bombarded by reality TV BS and herd mentality pressures. Something has to give.

Yes, I am talking of mental imbalance and illness in Society. This nonsense "Mendala Effect" is just lapses in memory and the crumbling of our safety walls withinn our mental domain.

When I first embarked on occult studies , the prerequisite was to have a solid material foundation. I implied a stable environment and mental balance. Mental balance includes keeping the foundations that have been built throughout your life; all events having been recorded in your mind which can be recalled without distortion or false memory. Nowadays, this is not so and people are losing it (I mean losing grip).

I blame social medial for the introduction of widespread mental imbalance. People are losing their mind to the herd mind.

Recently, someone made a comment to myself and a group of people. He said :"do you realise that we have around 60,000 thoughts every day ?". Needless to say, that was total BS to me (since I only entertain a few thoughts in a day perhaps due to thought control training over the years). However, it dawned on me that he was probably right as far as the majority of people are concerned.
How sad.

I have to say , I do not ever use social media (ATS is not social media for me) and I hardly ever switch on the TV. So, is Mandela Effect a social disease ? "Social" as in society losing its mind because individuals cannot disconnect anymore from the pool. They are following and bombarding each other with stupid comments non stop.

I feel sorry that Nelson Mendela's name has been used in this way. Yes, I know how it came about (Woman publishing an article because she was convinced that he died a long time before he officially died, etc and thought it was a good idea to call this "phenomenon" Mendela Effect.

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: sputniksteve

Regardless of the cause, I think that the Mandela Effect has ramifications on society in terms of how people perceive reality going forward and how they observe that perception.

The problem is that the average member of society is unaware that their mental balance is being compromised by the flood of "noise" and disturbance by virtue of being connected to each other (facebook, tweeter, cell phones , etc) . There is no let up. People are also being bombarded by reality TV BS and herd mentality pressures. Something has to give.

Yes, I am talking of mental imbalance and illness in Society. This nonsense "Mendala Effect" is just lapses in memory and the crumbling of our safety walls withinn our mental domain.

When I first embarked on occult studies , the prerequisite was to have a solid material foundation. I implied a stable environment and mental balance. Mental balance includes keeping the foundations that have been built throughout your life; all events having been recorded in your mind which can be recalled without distortion or false memory. Nowadays, this is not so and people are losing it (I mean losing grip).

I blame social medial for the introduction of widespread mental imbalance. People are losing their mind to the herd mind.

Recently, someone made a comment to myself and a group of people. He said :"do you realise that we have around 60,000 thoughts every day ?". Needless to say, that was total BS to me (since I only entertain a few thoughts in a day perhaps due to thought control training over the years). However, it dawned on me that he was probably right as far as the majority of people are concerned.
How sad.

I have to say , I do not ever use social media (ATS is not social media for me) and I hardly ever switch on the TV. So, is Mandela Effect a social disease ? "Social" as in society losing its mind because individuals cannot disconnect anymore from the pool. They are following and bombarding each other with stupid comments non stop.

I feel sorry that Nelson Mendela's name has been used in this way. Yes, I know how it came about (Woman publishing an article because she was convinced that he died a long time before he officially died, etc and thought it was a good idea to call this "phenomenon" Mendela Effect.

Thank you. Now that it is out of the way I hope we can try and focus on the topic.

originally posted by: one4all
Where did all the books go?......billions of books have been bought online by penny dealers by the ton for a decade and burned and destroyed.BILLIONS.

Now everything is online....and what do we find?....the "Mandella Effect".Things change and we have no hard copy backup.

Go figure huh?

No doubt that is a gigantic issue and concern for the digital revolution. With all records and most books being available digitally only soon history will be only what is currently on the screen. Who ever controls the screen therefore controls history. When Millennials and younger are the only people left on the planet there won't be anyone left to dispute it.

As scary as that concept is our current history is still only a generation or two removed from being pretty easy to manipulate without attention. I don't think any of this suddenly became possible, it just a lot easier.

Also a point I would like to clarify is in my OP I said I think the phenomenon is somehow due to the individuals themselves. I don't mean to say they are the special chosen ones or anything like that. What I meant is I believe we or they all share some common trait or experience, whether it be age, genetics, birth weight, concussion sufferers, accident survivors, probably have died at some point, etc. I think trying to aggregate and identify that data is the important next step regardless of cause.

originally posted by: sputniksteve


Thank you. Now that it is out of the way I hope we can try and focus on the topic.

Is this all you have to say...?!

Has is not occurred to you that , in this fast moving dog-eat-dog world where we are connected to everything that moves, there might be a mass memory lapse phenomenon happening; that mental health problems are becoming widespread in society.

I would at least have expected a considered comment from you (or no comment at all) instead of treating me like a troll.

Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

Or, why did they not speak out earlier when someone they remembered dying in prison was suddenly released in the biggest news story of the year?

The simple fact of one prominent politician dying before he came to power has massive ramifications and the whole history of SA, even the world, would/should be very different.

The Mandela Effect is faulty memory, pure and simple. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise.


(And, as an aside, are the people who remember Mandela dying, Berenstein Bears, NZ being further north, etc, all the same - do they all remember the same differences? Or are they separate groups?)

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: sputniksteve


Thank you. Now that it is out of the way I hope we can try and focus on the topic.

Is this all you have to say...?!

Has is not occurred to you that , in this fast moving dog-eat-dog world where we are connected to everything that moves, there might be a mass memory lapse phenomenon happening; that mental health problems are becoming widespread in society.

I would at least have expected a considered comment from you (or no comment at all) instead of treating me like a troll.

I didn't treat you like a troll. The OP stated the intention of the discussion wasn't to discuss the likely cause of the effect. If you read all of the OP at the end I talk about the intention of the thread and specifically say I would like to discuss the real and theoretical repercussions regardless of the root cause. For your approval, yes I consider it could be bad memory as well as a host of other causes.

Now that we have done it twice in the first 10 posts I hope we can shift the discussion towards the intended topic. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic I totally understand but I ask you please argue the cause in one of the many threads on the topic that aren't specifically this one. That's not an attempt to silence anyone, trust me I know your opinions on the cause. We all do by now.

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: sputniksteve


Thank you. Now that it is out of the way I hope we can try and focus on the topic.

Is this all you have to say...?!

Has is not occurred to you that , in this fast moving dog-eat-dog world where we are connected to everything that moves, there might be a mass memory lapse phenomenon happening; that mental health problems are becoming widespread in society.

I would at least have expected a considered comment from you (or no comment at all) instead of treating me like a troll.

I didn't treat you like a troll. The OP stated the intention of the discussion wasn't to discuss the likely cause of the effect. If you read all of the OP at the end I talk about the intention of the thread and specifically say I would like to discuss the real and theoretical repercussions regardless of the root cause. For your approval, yes I consider it could be bad memory as well as a host of other causes.

Now that we have done it twice in the first 10 posts I hope we can shift the discussion towards the intended topic. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic I totally understand but I ask you please argue the cause in one of the many threads on the topic that aren't specifically this one. That's not an attempt to silence anyone, trust me I know your opinions on the cause. We all do by now.

Thank you for a considered response this time.

It would be difficult for me to engage in this topic since you want to discuss only the repercussions. I feel that you are directing the thread towards a notion that this " mendela effect" is some kind of catalyst that will get individuals to look again at their perception of reality.

So, I'm out

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: sputniksteve


Thank you. Now that it is out of the way I hope we can try and focus on the topic.

Is this all you have to say...?!

Has is not occurred to you that , in this fast moving dog-eat-dog world where we are connected to everything that moves, there might be a mass memory lapse phenomenon happening; that mental health problems are becoming widespread in society.

I would at least have expected a considered comment from you (or no comment at all) instead of treating me like a troll.

I didn't treat you like a troll. The OP stated the intention of the discussion wasn't to discuss the likely cause of the effect. If you read all of the OP at the end I talk about the intention of the thread and specifically say I would like to discuss the real and theoretical repercussions regardless of the root cause. For your approval, yes I consider it could be bad memory as well as a host of other causes.

Now that we have done it twice in the first 10 posts I hope we can shift the discussion towards the intended topic. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic I totally understand but I ask you please argue the cause in one of the many threads on the topic that aren't specifically this one. That's not an attempt to silence anyone, trust me I know your opinions on the cause. We all do by now.

Thank you for a considered response this time.

It would be difficult for me to engage in this topic since you want to discuss only the repercussions. I feel that you are directing the thread towards a notion that this " mendela effect" is some kind of catalyst that will get individuals to look again at their perception of reality.

So, I'm out

Thats crazy, that is precisely what I typed in my OP actually. Take care I appreciate you having manners and being respectful.

My position in this thread is that regardless of the cause of the Mandela Effect being bad memory, confabulation, blatant lying, time traveler, CERN, Bigfoot, CIA mind experiment, the Matrix, Heaven, Hell, a cat that took too much '___', or just confused people on the internet; The people that directly experienced the Mandela Effect will perceive reality differently and almost certainly change the way they think about and act inside the world.

Whether that is a positive or a negative it is assured to be a result. I suggest that fact should be a part of the discussion to see if there is any way we can use our combined viewpoints and perceptions to find possible data that could assist in the discussion about the "if". This is not an exercise only for people who are "believers" attempting to leave out the "skeptics". This is the chance for everyone to be involved and have a unified goal that is separate to the usual tension filled word wars.

The planet Uranus was discovered during the era of Newtonian Physics. Shortly after they noticed that it was acting in a way that it wasn't supposed to be able to. Instead of throwing Newtonian Physics out the window they decided to find out what that information actually told them, and what they could discern from it. The result was the discovery of Neptune, using the same physics. They found that Neptune was pulling on Uranus causing the weird action they saw.

So I am asking that we look at our reality as Uranus, and Mandela Effect is the weird action. Maybe together we can find a Neptune out there somewhere. If it is just memory, what does it say about the nature of humans that we all share exact and precise memories in a way that make them such an anomaly? Step outside our normal hum drum perspectives for a moment and imagine what is possible. We already know that a majority of this universe is a mystery to us, and to me this entire phenomenon is mysterious.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew
Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

Or, why did they not speak out earlier when someone they remembered dying in prison was suddenly released in the biggest news story of the year?

The simple fact of one prominent politician dying before he came to power has massive ramifications and the whole history of SA, even the world, would/should be very different.

The Mandela Effect is faulty memory, pure and simple. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise.


(And, as an aside, are the people who remember Mandela dying, Berenstein Bears, NZ being further north, etc, all the same - do they all remember the same differences? Or are they separate groups?)

What else do they remember about SA history after? I have no idea, I am not one of them that remembers Mandela dying in prison. I would venture to guess though that they were most likely not from South Africa, and so once the funeral story stopped running they stopped paying attention to South Africa. It is no different than today, the US invaded Irag and Afghanistan but I couldn't tell you who their elected officials were during or after, what their GDP is, etc.

I would most likely say that the people that saw him die in 2000s when they thought he died 20 years earlier probably did speak out when it happened, for one we had the Mandela Effect created at that time, and two that was before social media and the real internet boom. Prior to social media individuals didn't really have a voice on the world stage. But even today, how many facebook posts does it take before the entire world hears about it?

I know you asked specifically about why they didn't say something when he was released a couple years after dying but again, one possibility is they did but it was before cell phones so all they could do was write a letter or tell the people around them. The other possibility is that he was never released from prison for them, he died and then all of a sudden without them even realizing something changed he had been the president and died again. I know that isn't very satisfactory but I don't know that I can offer an explanation that would be.

Your opinion is just fine, it is shared by many other people. I disagree but the thread was supposed to be about something different. Not your fault really I think I did a poor job of framing the discussion from the opening post. I will most likely wait a while and try again.

And finally to your side note, I have no idea. I have never heard anyone express any opinion that they must or are all together, like a mass exodus from one universe to another or something. I don't reckon that is how it works but what do I know. The only thing I can make a claim to knowing is 100% incorrect is Berenstein Bears, I don't have any specific reason to remember any of the other claims so I don' generally comment on them. For the record I don't need to discuss why I am wrong or anything like that. Please just assume I have heard the reasoning already.

a reply to: sputniksteve

So you mean "we or they" in reference to the people who now know about the Mandela Effect? Would we possibly have to consider the olde /new cyber version of "I told two friends and they told two friends who told two more friends" and trace this back to the very few who brought it to the masses attention....as in like a very few Nemos can see glitches in the Matrix??

So if you werent one of the original say 1-2-3 who posted online out of the millions who are now cyber-indoctrinated and only "notice it" because someone else told you to look......well you arent a "special one" but this doesnt mean the original Seers arent "special ones" as few as they may be.

originally posted by: one4all
a reply to: sputniksteve

So you mean "we or they" in reference to the people who now know about the Mandela Effect? Would we possibly have to consider the olde /new cyber version of "I told two friends and they told two friends who told two more friends" and trace this back to the very few who brought it to the masses attention....as in like a very few Nemos can see glitches in the Matrix??

So if you werent one of the original say 1-2-3 who posted online out of the millions who are now cyber-indoctrinated and only "notice it" because someone else told you to look......well you arent a "special one" but this doesnt mean the original Seers arent "special ones" as few as they may be.

Frankly yes I think there is a lot of "telephone effect" going on. As well as a lot of accidental and purposeful obfuscation. I don't think all of the reports are a result of that but again I can't prove anything either way. In the long run, in my mind the cause isn't as important as it might seem to be. The affect is what I am mostly interested in. It seems that no one else shares that interest or just hasn't recognized it yet I don't know.

As far as "special" people recognizing it and others copying them, I just don't know. I don't like the term special at all but I think I understand what you intended by it. This is a difficult subject to talk about in absolutes or objective terms because it is 100% subjective and involves way more people than myself and I can't possibly verify the honesty or veracity of anyone else's experience. I also have more specific ideas about how this phenomenon fits into the "Master plan" of reality but it is still and always developing, and I just didn't want to get into that type of stuff in this thread.

I still have hopes that the people I am targeting with this conversation will see it for what it is and join in, so I am going to try and keep as close to my original intention for the thread as possible. I am in no hurry, I have all the time in the world to wait.

Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

I have asked this several times. Why is there no chain of cause and effect? If there is actually something to the effect, it is not a timeline change. At the most a minor corruption of part of the timeline.

originally posted by: roadgravel

Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

I have asked this several times. Why is there no chain of cause and effect? If there is actually something to the effect, it is not a timeline change. At the most a minor corruption of part of the timeline.

These types of questions are quite perplexing and leads most to put their hands in the air and say "it can't be so it must not be". I wish I had an answer that would be sufficient for someone, I don't even have one that is sufficient for myself. I truly think that is by design.

I think we are meant to perpetually wonder, doubt, guess, hope, believe, have faith in, argue about, disbelieve, etc. Similar to the conversation about God,Spirits, Aliens, Ghosts, Dreams, Nightmares, etc. I believe that the intent can be found not in the "how" but in the "what now". In a sense the important question isn't "how is this happening?" but "it is happening, what do we learn from it?".

That's why I started this post and asked that question.I realize now that I could have opened it a different way to better get my point across. I think I have done that in my follow up posts but that is probably too little too late or just overlooked.

Just to appease the "non experiencers" in order to try and better convey my intentions:

Lets say we all agree that tens of thousands or more people all just have incorrect, misguided, fabricated memories. They are all the same incorrect, misguided, and fabricated memories but the effect is not due to Time warps, time travel, CERN, Parallel Universes colliding, Manipulation by the Simulation creator, or CIA mind tricks. Is it a coincidence that such a large amount of people have the exact or almost exactly same incorrect memories? Or could there be some other reason that such a large number of people have the same incorrect memories?

For instance I wonder how many people that were totally unaware or uneducated on Quantum Physics, Meta Physics, etc, now have an introduction to the concepts and even an experience they can relate to in their personal lives, thus becoming part of those peoples perceptions of reality? How many of those people will share those ideas and thoughts with other people who might also be unaware of any of those theories? How many people does it take for the collective consciousness to start reflecting these new ideas into society in the form of pop culture, art, entertainment, etc.? Even if they were misguided in their purpose of investigation it results in changes, which then have a domino effect on the rest of humanity.

It is introducing new concepts and possibilities into human culture which are going to either enforce, shape, or direct what that culture says, does, and believes going forward. The specific connection I was trying to make when I made this thread, that I wasn't even aware of until today, is how this relates to Jacques Vallee theory of Control Systems in reality. I think this is the evolution of the Fairy,Demon,UFO,Trickster phenomenon tailored for a more intellectually advanced society in order to do just what I am proposing it is going to do.

I think the Mandela Effect experience is the UFO sighting, and the Aliens have yet to appear. Or they have shown themself, but we haven't come to an agreement on what is being seen.

originally posted by: roadgravel

Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

I have asked this several times. Why is there no chain of cause and effect? If there is actually something to the effect, it is not a timeline change. At the most a minor corruption of part of the timeline.

if you awoke in an alternate timeline where apartheid never ended, wouldn't taking straw polls online about a line from a star wars movie be the best way to prove it?

Polaroids are your friend.

That being said, the advent of the internet has made the confirmation of these effects much more readily accessible to those not connected so much in the past. In the past, most of those under its effect wound up in mental institutes. Today they form the core part of the internet army.

Welcome to the matrix my friend. Once you start bending spoons I will be around to answer your questions.

originally posted by: stinkelbaum

originally posted by: roadgravel

Maybe I have missed it, if the answer has already been given somewhere, but the simple question is: if people remember that Mandela died in prison, what do they also remember about subsequent events in SA which must have been different?

I have asked this several times. Why is there no chain of cause and effect? If there is actually something to the effect, it is not a timeline change. At the most a minor corruption of part of the timeline.

if you awoke in an alternate timeline where apartheid never ended, wouldn't taking straw polls online about a line from a star wars movie be the best way to prove it?

I am not sure why you would give people you obviously think are not rational, logical, or intelligent enough credit to think they would be aware that apartheid ended. That seems a bit of a paradox to me.

In any case you seem to have totally missed the point, in your rush to make fun.

originally posted by: kamebard
Polaroids are your friend.

That being said, the advent of the internet has made the confirmation of these effects much more readily accessible to those not connected so much in the past. In the past, most of those under its effect wound up in mental institutes. Today they form the core part of the internet army.

Welcome to the matrix my friend. Once you start bending spoons I will be around to answer your questions.

So if I plant the crops, water them, then harvest you will come eat with me? That's not much fun. Frankly if I am bending spoons, I won't be on ATS to share it with you.