A question for Charlotte: How does looting a Walmart, burning a truck advance your cause?

originally posted by: WilburnRoach

originally posted by: darkuniverse


I have always wondered this. How does this help your cause or how does this help in the process of your protest....

Ask the Sons of Liberty how rioting and dumping all that tea into Boston harbor helped there cause?

Because they were protesting an unfair (in their eyes) new tax on ... TEA. So they dumped the tea and said piss on you to England. Makes sense right? If not, then I can't help you.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: WilburnRoach

originally posted by: darkuniverse


I have always wondered this. How does this help your cause or how does this help in the process of your protest....

Ask the Sons of Liberty how rioting and dumping all that tea into Boston harbor helped there cause?

Because they were protesting an unfair (in their eyes) new tax on ... TEA. So they dumped the tea and said piss on you to England. Makes sense right? If not, then I can't help you.

A tax that amounted to around $5 per year, yes this is a excellent reason to riot, tar and feather people, set fires, break windows, but fighting back against a system that is killing you and mass incarcerating a certain race isn't?

a reply to: WilburnRoach

A tax that amounted to around $5 per year, yes this is a excellent reason

back then 5 bucks was damn near a years pay if not more for some. yes it was a "excellent reason"

a reply to: jjkenobi

Savages all of them right?

We were founded with Riots!

Because fighting back for the Right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is worth it!!

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler


The reason that police killing blacks is a focal point is quite obvious isn't it? The cops are representative of the crooked system. The dead man as I'm sure you could guess is representative of black people as a whole. Which is why it doesn't really matter if the cop who did the shooting was black or white or if the shooting was justified or not.

Great post as always. You are right, this is clearly about more than this one shooting. The problem is the narrative that is being shoved down the throats of black people is a lie. I am not trying to make this political, and I don't think either party has done much to help the black community, but I have to bring this up.

This narrative that police are racist and out to kill black people is not true (not to say there can't be a racist cop). The numbers do not back that up. Black people have every right to be angry and frustrated. Many of their communities are in disarray, and seem to be left behind when the economy grows. Some politicians do not want to admit that they have failed these communities, and can sense their anger.

And so they spin this lie that it is all the cops fault. Cops are shooting black people left and right they say. They have the media show every possible case they can of a black being shot by police. Be honest with me Ante, if you didn't look at the facts, wouldn't you think based on media coverage that blacks are not only being decimated by the police, but are having this done exclusively to them. Yet the numbers don't back that up as the Harvard study and many other numbers show.

Now these have been lied to so much by people they trust such as Obama and the media and academia that the facts don't matter. They asked many of these people last night, what if this was a justified shooting by the police? They all said it didn't matter, this is about protesting mass police killing of blacks. So now instead of the black community having justified anger at the policies that have devestaed many of there communities, they blame police and white people for these problems.

My point (I know, I'm rambling) is that the people protesting and rioting and those people supporting Trump have many of the exact same sentiments in common.

This is exactly right! Our government is no longer concerned with its constituents, regardless of race. It is more concerned with special interests. You don't trust Trump, and that is perfectly reasonable, but do you really trust Obama and all of the politicians that insert themselves in these racial situations? What has Obama done to help black communities? Nothing at all. But he continues to spin this story about police killing blacks as an epidemic, and so now he takes no blame for ignoring black people with his policies.

I bring up black on black crime because what else can you counter the narrative with? If I simply say here are the facts, very few unarmed blacks are killed by police, and other races are killed just as often, no one want to look at these facts because it is based on emotion. So you bring up the far greater amount of blacks as an attempt to show the narrative isn't true. But you are right, this has proven ineffective too.

Thanks to this narrative, we see all over the country that not only are many blacks blaming cops, but not they are increasingly distrusting of white people. That is what this narrative has done. Academia tells us how white patriarchy has caused all of these problems. Everyone tells us how lucky white people are (which may be true) which fostered contempt of whites for many black people.

So now are chancing of coming together are even smaller. Whites then get tired of being blamed, and they get contempt for these groups like black lives matter. Many said, "Well all lives matter" Nope, thats racist.

The problem is that we're constantly presented with these false dichotomies and our political "sides" waste time pandering to us with identity politics to get elected, stumbling around fighting to be captain of a sinking ship that they're too blind, ignorant or unwilling to save.

Black people have gotten a raw deal in this country as a group. Anyone who denies that is denying objective reality. Working class whites have been feeling the squeeze and anyone who denies that they have good reason for concern, is also denying objective reality.

Of course blacks have gotten a raw deal. Since the war on poverty started, their communities have been struggling even more. For over 50 years we have had a group of politicians that supposedly have been fight for black communities, and yet nothing ever changes. I would be pissed if I was black too! Yet we now have those same politicians spreading this narrative, and saying "Vote for us, this time we will really help you?.

What are those of us outside of this community supposed to do? We see this problem getting worse and worse. Riots are becoming more common place. The situation is becoming worse, and the lie is getting further and further entrenched.

I don't advocate violence or belittle black communities in any way. I understand why they should be frustrated. The same is true of many people outside this community. But when we offer facts, we are shouted down. We are not black we are told, so we don't know how they feel. Worse yet, maybe aI am a racist for not understanding why they need to have these protests. We now are hearing increased calls to attack not only cops, but white people. We now have talking heads justifying violence because the cops are so racist. It is insanity.

How would you feel if frustrated whites did the same? What if they rioted and burned down neighborhoods out of a misguided belief that the justice system led by Obama and Lynch hated white people? What if the media pushed every story of a black cop killing white people over and over and over again, and told us that there was an epidemic of police state violence on whites.

What if politicians sat down and said that the black community needs to understand the abuse that white people suffer?

You would be appalled, and rightfully so. You would want to scream at white people "What the hell are you talking about, can't you see this is all BS!"

But that is where we are at now. So I will keep fighting this narrative, and the people that push it. This is the only way to begin to solve the real problems in the black community, and with all communities in this country.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

No, the tax made locally grown tea more expensive than corporate imported tea. It wasn't the amount it was the tactic used by the government to manipulate costs to favor imports over locally produced product. The government used its power to favor big business over the local people.

Sound familiar?

originally posted by: FaunaOrFlora


Yet blacks are only 11% of the population.

Math and statistics must not be your strong suit.

Again, maybe you missed it, but actually an individual unarmed white is more likely to be shot by police than an individual unarmed black.

In shootings in these 10 cities involving officers, officers were more likely to fire their weapons without having first been attacked when the suspects were white. Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both results undercut the idea of racial bias in police use of lethal force.

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: WilburnRoach
a reply to: jjkenobi

Savages all of them right?

We were founded with Riots!

Because fighting back for the Right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is worth it!!

The TEA tax wasn't the only straw, just the last straw. Feel free to read history books. Any history book. Also current society isn't out to "murder" or "get" black people. These protests do nothing to further their cause. In fact, it does exactly the opposite. Turns many people (including black people who own the business and cars being destroyed) against them.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Watching black people burn and riot and specifically target and beat up white people... I gotta be honest, it's starting to make me feel racist.

Don't. First off, these blacks rioting do not represent all blacks. Secondly, these blacks are being lied to on an epic scale. The people that are lying to them want whites and blacks to hate each other. Don't give in to their goal.

a reply to: WilburnRoach
You are right! I am convinced, we need to support people rioting even if it is over a lie.

Why stop with just black people rioting? Lets have whites and Hispanics join in too! That would be even better, right!

Heck why stop at race? Women should riot that men and police are out t get them. Men should do the same!

Think of how great of a country we could become if only everyone would riot for little or no reason!

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: WilburnRoach
You are right! I am convinced, we need to support people rioting even if it is over a lie.

Statistics don't lie.

Why stop with just black people rioting? Lets have whites and Hispanics join in too! That would be even better, right!

"The People" united against a oppressive government. That would be a sight to see.

Heck why stop at race? Women should riot that men and police are out t get them. Men should do the same!

Yes!, Cats vs dogs, gold fish vs angle fish! Ford vs Chevy!!! We should riot over baseball games, and football games, and hockey...oh wait!

Think of how great of a country we could become if only everyone would riot for little or no reason!

Like a tax on Tea?

a reply to: darkuniverse

Is just stock footage for countries like Russia China and North Korea to show that we are in a perpetual state of internal strife... Oh wait, yeah we are.

a reply to: Grambler

Bravo! Nailed it! It is a complex issue and I am happy other people are seeing it as I do. Black people have been abandoned by their own, and have nowhere to turn. They are fighting for their very lives. And the politicians know this. It is so easy to blame a cop.

In this area I do think there are groups of black people who are genuinely trying to fix this mess.
Men are stepping up to mentor. The local community college has many free helps/guides/programs/mentors. I know because my daughter teaches there. From Day One of the MB killing, the locals have reached out and tried to help.

In the past 2 years, black people have reached out to me (white) in the local grocery, post office, Walmart. They chit chat with me, ask me questions, etc. I do nothing to prompt this except smile and act friendly. I think the black churches are urging their members to talk to whites.

Nathalie's, the bakery that burned in Ferguson, rebuilt. She began selling her foods at the Farmers Market in Ferguson. Starbucks picked up her caramel cake (and oh, is it good) and they sell it around here. Nathalie now employs many local youth and is working to give them a hand UP. I buy from there often and there is always a mentor training the young people in how to act (some of them are afraid of whitey).

This crazy post is to point up the fact that some black people recognize that no one is going to help them except themselves. They are working hard to repair and heal the damage of the Michael Brown killing. And they are trying, I mean REALLY trying, to reach out to other cultures to help.

originally posted by: WilburnRoach


Statistics don't lie.

Man, I have to take a deep breath when discussing this issue. You are about the 8th person in the past 24 hours that has claimed something like this, while ignoring all of the previous posts on the very thread of statistics that show that the narrative of cops rampantly shooting unarmed black men is untrue.

For starters, you will notice 4 posts above your is a study that shows whites not attacking the police are more likely to be shot by them than blacks.

Can you show me the statistics you are referencing that disprove this?

"The People" united against a oppressive government. That would be a sight to see.

Is that what these riots were, fighting an oppressive government. They marched on Washington, or Obama or Lynch? Oh no they are rioting about cops, and destroying innocent peoples communities to do it.

Yes!, Cats vs dogs, gold fish vs angle fish! Ford vs Chevy!!! We should riot over baseball games, and football games, and hockey...oh wait!

Exactly. Those sports riots really accomplish a lot don't they? But these riots you are cheering for will be different, right?

Like a tax on Tea?

Yep. You are right, more sports riots, more riots of all types! Whites should riot and attack black people right?

I mean, if the tea riots were over nothing and ended up great, then I am sure whites rioting and attacking blacks will lead to an awesome society!

a reply to: darkuniverse

it further cements the stereotype of African Americans- and makes life difficult for other black ethnic groups in America who are just getting on with life, working hard, and law abiding-

Not all persons of color are like this, not all blacks are violent, gruesome, and without reason. just the AA community.
it pisses me off that there is no distinction on employment forms AA/black/african descent... it should be 3 separate categories.

- those fools and looters and monsters who act irrationally to a possible wrongful death like orangutans and fail to simply wait for evidence or find other more productive ways to voice their 'opinions', which we are all entitled to, and or peaceful protest which is protected by the constitution; those fools are not representative of say ethnic groups from Nairobi,, West Africa, Bahamas, Senegal Haiti etc... Most are here to better themselves, earn a descent living like most.

-but why always do this? what does this accomplish but paint all blacks the same as them.... and yes this is America, same skin color = same... just like it is with Arabs or Muslims. Middle America will almost always bunch the 'likes' with the likes based on skin color.

Its as if the government is sitting on the side lines and eating popcorn to see what will become of these riots. Police departs receive new equipment, which is military grade. My thing is that I believe, is the slow process of a police state.
A slow indoctrination of how the police will be a local small military force. What better way by having riots and show what you can do and to squash the resistance.

a reply to: Grambler

Be honest with me Ante, if you didn't look at the facts, wouldn't you think based on media coverage that blacks are not only being decimated by the police, but are having this done exclusively to them. Yet the numbers don't back that up as the Harvard study and many other numbers show.

Yes. However, even that is a very complex issue. Media coverage, no matter how ethical journalists and their editors are, by its very nature creates a distorted picture. The old adage "if it bleeds it leads" is true for a reason — non-events simply aren't newsworthy for the same reason that people don't rush on Facebook to tell their friends every time they drove their cars and didn't get in a car accident. News is fundamentally rife with selection bias and sampling bias.

Then there is a feedback loop that is always happening between the media and consumers of media. So not only are we only getting what's newsworthy, we're going to get an even bigger dose of whatever gets the most of our attention and our brains are wired to pay disproportionate attention to negative events for an obvious reason — things that can kill or mame you and yours take precedence over everything else.

So before we even get into political bias and agendas, we've got a perfect machine for creating and reinforcing our distorted worldviews with a heavy emphasis on alarming ourselves. Then we have politicians, civic and religious leaders who also consume the media and they further filter it because as presumed "authorities," whatever they tell us are concerns, are given more weight. There's another feedback loop between those people and their audiences which leads them to focus on specific items that elicit reactions.

Now we get to deliberate political agendas and editorial bias. Politicians can and do deliberately mislead, they do use identity politics and pander. Civic leaders do the same and there's an interplay there with politicians and a synergy between the leaders of society and the media which drives public opinion. Often that synergy includes a shared political ideology and a common interest in seeing its adoption.

That's a very incomplete picture — in fact it barely scratches the surface — but it's all far far far more than anyone is going to keep in mind as they are consuming media.

So yes, I agree but I'd also point out the same is true of all manners of things.

I'll get political for a minute here because I do believe that objectively speaking, Donald Trump has tapped into this on a level that is impressive even for politics. He came out of the gate essentially saying, "these people are rapists and criminals, these other people hate you and want to you kill and you should be very very afraid and vote for me so I can save you from them." He's egregiously appealing to and reinforcing some very destructive distortions — and at the same time, the people he's demonizing see him demonizing them which as you can imagine, that really upsets them.

Clinton does the same thing but quantifiably less. If you read the two candidate's acceptance speeches, you'll see what I mean. I posted wordclouds and a breakdown of terms here that I believe supports this argument.

That isn't to say that Obama hasn't made things worse in his own way but that's also a very complicated issue that's hard to discuss in the context of a single repsone. The fact is everyone contributes but it suffices to say that some people are contributing more to making things worse.

I'm going to skip over a couple things but not because you're not making good points but rather out of necessity. I've got a meeting shortly and I spent more time on the above than I'd intended. I do however want to respond to this as I think it's really perhaps the most important question:

What are those of us outside of this community supposed to do? We see this problem getting worse and worse. Riots are becoming more common place. The situation is becoming worse, and the lie is getting further and further entrenched.

In short, there's nothing we as individuals can do in my opinion except keep trying to vote for leaders who will fix the root issues and trying not to contribute to making things worse. That's why it's a trap for everyone. You've got people chanting "black lives matter" and you have people on the "other side" who are like, "Hey wtf! I'm not a racist! I didn't do anything! What do you want from me? I'm barely making it myself! I didn't ask for this!"

The fact is that we have have come a long way in terms of racism. Racism was once not only codified into our laws and built into our institutions but perfectly socially acceptable. We've changed our laws. Overt racism isn't socially acceptable in public.

The frustration I believe comes from the fact that black folks as a group are still way behind socioeconomically but a lot of activism is misguided because its not going after the root problem but rather it's still focused on eradicating racism as though that will fix everything. On the flip side, a lot of white people can't imagine why black people are still way behind socioeconomically — "just look at all we've given to them!" — and so they've just concluded that black people are collectively whiners with giant chips on their shoulders looking for an excuse not to succeed. Then many just have a sort of fatigue because they hear the complaining and even if in their heart of hearts they know it's true they have no idea what they can do about it and they feel blamed.

Frustration breeds contempt and contempt makes things worse. These are all of course generalizations, different people have different reactions to the same stimuli and all that but I think it's useful enough for our purposes.

The key to fixing the problem is in my opinion, the same as it ever was — employment. Black people want the piece of the pie that they should have access to but it's extremely hard to believe that as a group, black people will be rising into the middle class as the middle class is itself shrinking.

a reply to: darkuniverse

"A Riot Is the Language of the Unheard" ~ Martin Luther King, Jr

When a football player protest peacefully by taking a knee during the national anthem in order to bring a voice to the injustices taking place in the most developed nation on the planet, there are many people who become angry at him for exercising his freedom. It seems one is damned if they do protest peacefully in America, anyway...

Let's reword this so it demonstrates unity. After all, this is a societal issue that reflects America as a whole. Police brutality and killing is not a race issue as some in this thread (and MSM) are attempting to make it out to be.

I have always wondered this. How does this help your the cause or how does this help in the process of your a protest...

Looting and damaging property does not help the cause at all. In fact, it distracts from the overall issue.

A rioting mob shut down Interstate 85 -- attacking terrified motorists. One female truck driver cried as she told a reporter that her cargo was being set on fire. Looters pillaged and plundered a Walmart. More than a dozen police officers were injured -- along with civilians and at least three reporters.

It is important to keep in mind that those who commit these certain acts do not represent all the people involved in the entire movement. Just like these many ongoing (self created) societal issues taking place in America in these modern times does not represent all Americans on a personal level despite reflecting all of American society as a whole...

a reply to: theantediluvian

Another great post.

I wish I could give a more detailed response, but I have to run too.

On the media and its challenges, I agree it is a very comlex situation, and if it bleeds it leads. However, there has to be more to it than that.

There are stories that would appeal to the most base in people that they do not reprt. They could show black crime everyday. That would tap a nerve all over the country. They could show footage after footage of this crime, and call it an epidemic like they do with the cops. But they don't. Why not?

They could show footage over and over of countries with Sharia throwing gays off of buildings, or assaulting women.
But they don't.

This is because the media has an agenda on what to show. It is no longer just about ratings. If it was, all of these horrible divisive stories would be shoved down our throats.

On Trump

He has been divisive. The most of them are rapist line was ridiculous, I didn't agree with it. But the fact is no one in the media or in the world of politics would discuss illegal immigration. The same is true of Islam. He used bad language, but he is frustrated because no one in the media or this administration will admit any problems with Islamic terrorism.

Does that justify his hyperbole? Not at all. But where are the riots because of his language? Where is the wall to wall coverage of illegal immigrants commiting murders? It is no where near to scale. And not to forgive Trump for his past rhetoric, but he has been much better in trying to talk to all communities.

I would argue Hillary and Obama are more dangerous. There divisive rhetoric has become mainstream. Turn on your tv. 90% of all actors you see believe the BLM narrative. Switch to sports, all about this narrative. Turn on the mainstream news, all bout the narrative. Go to a campus, same story. This lie being pushed by them is so pervasive that it is almost universally accepted, despite the facts showing otherwise.

Ask yourself this. If Trump supporters rioted like these people, do you think they would be treated more harshly by the media and politicians of all political persuasion? Heck, even the average person would be treat that situation with much more contempt.

On what can we do.

I agree with you we need to come together, but what leader to we have that is suggesting that? Even Gary Johnson has bought into BLM.

I think you are right that some whites are starting to get contempt. I understand the anger at all races, it is just the we need to try to direct it where it should be so that we can make solutions.

I think we need to start with personal responsibility. What can I do to imporve my life, and the lives of others. I need to not blame others when life doesn;t go my way, and work to try to take care of myself and loved ones with as little help as possible from other.

Does this mean I will never need help? Of course not. But we should strive to be as self reliant as possible. We should also struve to then help as many others as possible.

I really have to run, but I think the most important step is to look for the truth of things ourselves. Facts are more important than feelings. ONly with facts cand we start to change things.

originally posted by: darkuniverse
A rioting mob shut down Interstate 85 -- attacking terrified motorists.

One female truck driver cried as she told a reporter that her cargo was being set on fire.

Looters pillaged and plundered a Walmart.

More than a dozen police officers were injured -- along with civilians and at least three reporters.

link:www.foxnews.com...

I have always wondered this. How does this help your cause or how does this help in the process of your protest....

Don't you know a stolen 53" flat screen is the going compensation for perceived racism.