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Enoch Chapter 8

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posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
I don't think Freemasonry would openly admit reverence for Nimrod but I suspect that they do as Osiris but that's just rumor.


We do not revere anyone in Masonry but even if we did, what difference would it make? Why would we have to hide it?




posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Because that would create rumors and stuff.



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 09:26 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
Because that would create rumors and stuff.


That would be a first.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Malocchio
I don't think Freemasonry would openly admit reverence for Nimrod but I suspect that they do as Osiris but that's just rumor.


We do not revere anyone in Masonry but even if we did, what difference would it make? Why would we have to hide it?



Why do you have secrets in your fraternity and why do you take oaths never to reveal them?

Why would you have to hide them you're asking me?

I think a Mason would be able to explain the necessity of secrecy and its purpose better than a non Mason, assuming you're a real Mason why don't you answer your own question?

It's no secret that Masons value silence and secret keeping regarding the secrets of the lodge, that you have secrets.

So why would you need me to explain why you are a secretive fraternity?


Ask your worshipful master. I don't have any information on the reasons for secrecy but that's what opens up the door to speculation and rumor so don't be surprised if people are of the opinion that you might possibly revere Osiris as Egypt is an influential culture according to some Masons like the articulate and slightly arrogant Egyptian fellow that is on TV all the time talking about Masonry and the importance of secrecy in it.

I know, he doesn't represent all Masons and is a prop to make Masonry appear great despite its secrets. It seems that Masonry is putting on a show for the world making some believe Masons aren't conspiratorial and are benevolent.

The world ain't buying it.

Secrets are always bad or the need for secrecy wouldn't be. There is no shame in open book honesty and yall value the opposite.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio



Secrets are always bad or the need for secrecy wouldn't be. There is no shame in open book honesty and yall value the opposite.


I hear this so many times that secrets are bad
This shows a lack of understanding

Early Christians kept their faith secret for fear of their life's ... were they wrong ... of course not
Secrecy is not good or bad ... it depends on the reason for it

Did the sorcherer tell the apprentice all his secrets ... no not until the apprentice was ready
Look at the havoc caused by non understanding when the apprentice was left to his own devices

Are secrets that are kept from the public which would cause the public harm good
No ... They should be brought to the light

Masons ... correct me if I am wrong but ... A craft is not learned by telling everything all at once
It is learnt in stages .... from a teacher. mentor etc

You can not ask a new apprentice to build you a house unless he understands all that is required to do duch a thing










edit on 22-9-2016 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-9-2016 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Secrets are always bad?

I guess you won't object to posting your credit/debit card details on here then?



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

I don't use electronic money.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet


Anyone who accuses someone of having a lack of understanding is someone who lacks understanding.

My understanding of secrecy lacks no such thing. I am aware of the possibility of having to keep a secret about certain things that are not evil, private information and the like.

An organization that flaunts its secretive nature on tv is not keeping secrets that are harmless.

It means they have much to hide that they don't want you to know and would never admit to.

It can creepy and you need to worry less about my understanding of secrecy and more about those who espouse it as a virtue and the reasons why.

Then you'll understand what I am saying.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Oh, so you keep your money secret from the government?

You're such a bad person for keeping secrets.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Can I ask you. How exactly is Freemaaonry secret?

You can read the books online, go to the library or buy them from various websites (including ebay). Hell, you can even get a member list if you want. Not very secret.

The only secrets there are are financial and passwords.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

If the cap fits wear it if not why worry or take offence

I repeat ... To say all secrets are bad is a lack of understanding

You speak of evil yet evil is a word used to demonise others who's secrets are unkown
You speak of creating an atmoshere of suspicion and rumour yet what is it based on

The answer is simple if you want to know the serets of Masonary ... join them and find out for yourself in an honourable way rather than one wishing to subvert

But you do not like Masonary that much is obvious



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio
There's nothing wrong with secrecy or keeping them.

Everyone practices secrecy and keeps secrets.

There are many reasons why we Freemasons continue our private nature and the keeping of secrets. Freemasonry was traditionally extremely private during eras of totalitarianism out of obvious necessity as free-thinking and liberal ideas were seen as dangerous, condemned by tyrants, and forced from public view.

In his article "Why Secrecy", Bro. Roger Firestone 33° stated:


Another major reason why secrecy is advocated for the knowledge imparted by Freemasonry is to impart the lesson that our teachings are valuable. We leave many inexpensive items lying carelessly about our homes and offices, whereas truly valuable items are kept locked in safe deposit boxes or other repositories, or are carried with us at all times. In Poe's story, "The Purloined Letter," many hiding places are searched for the letter; having been left in plain view, it is overlooked as worthless. Since knowledge, per se, cannot be locked up physically, keeping it secret is the method used to restrict its circulation and ownership. If the teachings of Freemasonry were made available to anyone as a matter of routine, it would indicate to both members and outsiders that we attach only a modest value to them. Instead, we have spent centuries of effort keeping the truths of Masonry secret and passing them down the generations by memory. This should convince us that what we have labored so hard to possess is valuable indeed.

As history shows, when the world is out of balance the solution will arise in the needed form. In his article called The Sociology of Secrecy and of Secret Societies, Georg Simmel states:


As a general proposition, the secret society emerges everywhere as correlate of despotism and of police control. It acts as protection alike of defense and of offense against the violent pressure of central powers. This is true, not alone in political relations, but in the same way within the church, the school, and the family.

Within any private and voluntary organization, secrecy or privacy is necessary and compatible with trust. Because of the shared experience of members and because they share protected information an organization builds allegiances and meaningful relationships. According to Gary Fine and Lori Holyfield, "The link between trust and secrecy supports group cohesion while leaving room for personal investments." Private organizations rely upon trust to keep private or secret that which has been entrusted to his care. The relationship between privacy and secrecy extends to personal relationships as well as fraternal ones. Simmel states, "Every relationship between two individuals or two groups will be characterized by the ratio of secrecy that is involved in it." W:.Bro. Cliff Porter in his 2007 article Secrecy and Faith discusses how secrecy breeds trust and courage. Cliff makes the following declaration:


There are many reasons we may love our spouses, but believing we can share anything with them is an important aspect to a healthy relationship. The idea that your closest companion will not share your private moments with anyone else is what allows you to trust them. The idea that we can trust them gives of the courage to share with them. This is the basis of the secrecy of Masonry.

Also, Augustus has served as Worshipful Master if I remember right.

Freemasonry is indeed a benevolent organization.


Secrets are always bad or the need for secrecy wouldn't be. There is no shame in open book honesty and yall value the opposite.

False.

While some denounce secrecy on moral grounds, Georg Simmel states that secrecy is a universal sociological form and has nothing to do with moral valuations. Those who believe that secrecy is naturally wrong and use the "nothing-to-hide" argument do so based on assumptions not fact. They presume that secrets are kept only to hide something wrong, but often privacy and secrecy enhance freedom and liberty since living in a police state, in a state of forced "transparency", inhibits the exercise of natural rights like freedom of speech, association/assembly, and all of those essential to a free society.

In my opinion, it is not about Freemasonry having anything to hide, but rather it has everything to do with the sense of entitlement some feel to know the business of others...and frankly, they don't have that right. Entitlement is the belief that one deserves something without putting labor or effort into properly receiving it which is the antithesis to the natural rights that protect secrecy and privacy. As free men we are endowed with the right to keep what is our personal, confidential, private, and secret; and as free men we do not need to justify the exercise of our Natural Rights.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio
Most people like you who would object to the secrecy of others cannot withstand questioning concerning intimate aspects of their lives.

If you're against secrecy, maybe you can tell us about intimate details about your spouse.

a reply to: Malocchio
LOL What an ignorant statement.

You do indeed lack understanding of secrecy and human nature.

Freemasonry is not flaunting anything on the television nor are we trying to hide anything nefarious.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: KSigMason

I've got this wierd feeling of deja vu. Like this whole "secrets are evil therefore Freemasons are evil" thing has been said a few dozen times on this site and been explained to them the same amount of times.

Or is it just me?
edit on 2292016 by TerryDon79 because: Autocorrect keeps changing if to of. Stupid iPhone.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
Why do you have secrets in your fraternity and why do you take oaths never to reveal them?


The 'secrets' are five handshakes and five passwords which anyone can find online. The reason we keep them secret is as a test of character. Do you trust people who run their mouths with things you asked them not to?


Why would you have to hide them you're asking me?


I did not ask you that, I asked you why we would have to hide something about Nimrod.


I think a Mason would be able to explain the necessity of secrecy and its purpose better than a non Mason, assuming you're a real Mason why don't you answer your own question?


I answered that, even thought it was not my question to you. Maybe you should answer my question instead of trying to change the narrative.




edit on 22-9-2016 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer but at least he is not a religious nutter



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

oh dont be coy. DP
DP damned tablet argh!
edit on 22-9-2016 by TheConstruKctionofLight because: dp



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

oh dont be coy...you've played in these types of threads often enough. Are you going to claim deja vu or faulty memory.
Oh what games we weave



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I wasn't being coy. I was being sarcastic.



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

and economical with truth - cant the masons answer without your derailment attempts?
Like I said the games people play



posted on Sep, 22 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

How was I derailing anything? If anyone is taking this off topic, it would be you, by your whining about me posting.




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