Interview with a 10 year old who talks about being gender non-binary

I do struggle trying to grasp the idea of a gender spectrum/fluidity. Without sounding judgemental, I only truly understand binary gender and the fact that some individuals (including children) are born the wrong sex which I empathise with. Recently I have managed to get past my knee-jerk reaction on gender non-binary and have become more open to trying to understand this issue. Despite my own feelings, I respect the rights of adults to identify and live as a non-binary.

I was quite interested to hear a 20 minute radio interview with a 10 year old who identifies as non-binary. The story was reported on the BBC website yesterday with a link to the BBC I-Player. For those outside the UK, Player FM have the recording as well so non-UK members can listen if you are interested in this subject (link below).

Leo is 10 years old. For most of his life he's lived as a girl, but this summer he began to speak openly about his sense that this didn't feel quite right. With research help for his parents, he's decided he is non-binary - in his case, both masculine and feminine - though for the moment he dresses as a boy and has taken a male name.

For me personally, the interview raised a lot more questions than it answered.

1. Leo is very intelligent and has incredible insight for a 10 year old (talking about gender non-conforming and gender dysphoria and also stating that it is NOT the most interesting thing about himself).

2. The mother seemed keen to allow Leo to explore/experiment with his identity. Leo (who was born female) decided to live as a boy and didn't feel it was quite right so the mother went online to research identity. They discussed non-binary and Leo said it described him. He tried living with the pronouns 'ze' and 'they' but did not like them. He is currently living as a male with male pronouns, with an understanding that this may change.

3. The mother talks about her other son 'coming out' as a vegetarian and how they accepted and accommodated this (I found the comparison a bit odd).

4. The mother has discussed the possibility with Leo about being gay in the future (I find this odd as gender and sexuality are two separate issues and a ten year old has no grasp of sexuality).

5. The mother does not mention medical guidance/intervention.

I was quite bright at 10 years old but did not have the depth of insight/maturity (on any subject or issue) that Leo has. Some children know they have the wrong body and it is consistent and causes them significant distress. Leo is not like this. Leo has lived as both sexes and does not identify as either. This is such a profound statement coming from a ten year old child and yet the mother seems so casual/matter of fact about the whole issue.

There has been many threads on ATS relating to transgender children but I can't remember seeing or being able to find anything on non-binary children. If you have time to listen to Leo I would be interested in what your take is on this.


BBC I-player (UK only)

Player FM (International)

BBC News Article

Born female? Question answered.

I wonder what Leo's other grades are like as it seems like Leo spends a ton of time studying this.

a reply to: Morrad


Is this not simply a child with a strong sense of personal identity who refuses to be labeled by their biological sex, a reaction perhaps to this identity politics ideology which seems to say your identity is dictated by what you were born with, over which you have no control.

So a bright child seeks to be defined as who they perceive themselves to be, over any birth characteristics and then refuses the political nonsense.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Born female? Question answered.

Please elaborate on your comment... I was born female too. Is that comment directed at all women/girls, or just the ones who don't conform to your social expectations?

a reply to: ReprobateRaccoon

Considering he's married to me, and I'm about as unfeminine as women come ...

So it's a girl going thru a tomboy phase.

Cool.

Moving on.

IMHO, the characterization and description of the Mom says everything about this kid's path.

a reply to: Morrad

He is currently living as a male with male pronouns.

You couldn't pay me enough to live with pronouns. They stink, and never clean up their mess....

Now a sweet prepositional phrase....that's a different story!!

a reply to: Morrad

poor kid. Childhood is now over.

Welcome to a life akin to a "coffie table book" for your parents . It will make great conversation I bet.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
IMHO, the characterization and description of the Mom says everything about this kid's path.

Exactly. Little kids don't talk like this. Little kids don't - and can't - think like this. And little kids should *not* be making these kinds of decisions. Their brains aren't developed enough to do complex social and psychological analysis like someone is asking this kid to do. As Dr. Phil says, "they don't have the capacity or experience to be able to see around corners" like adults do.

Being a vegetarian, if not done right, can be unhealthy. Now add that to a *young* and *small* child who is growing and it's certainly not good or healthy.

His mother confused him early on. In her effort to be "with it" and "current" and "open", she messed him up. Kids think concretely up to about the age of eight, give or take, and she baffled him with bulls*it. He is so confused he doesn't know what the hell to think.

a reply to: Morrad

It makes more sense to get psychiatric help to accept the sex they are than to spend their entire life 'pissing against the wind'. We shouldn't be encouraging this stuff...especially with children.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
IMHO, the characterization and description of the Mom says everything about this kid's path.

I was thinking that too.

If I was this mom, our son would have several dozen small robots and drones and a dog and a couple of parakeets by now. Oh, and I'd be out running up the credit card balance getting him a pet scorpion tonight.

Did anyone listen to the actual radio show, the kid seems to be a bright spark, they have picked up on the toxic identity politics ideology which is endorsed by the MSM here in blighty, and as a child with a child's simplicity rejected it.

This is a reaction/symptom of the silliness, I think not actually a part of it, the mother seems very earnest. The media is twisting it to fit there agenda, when it actually runs counter to.

identity crisis hits most people around that age, especially girls who think that boys stuff is more fun (minor clue here, there is no "boys stuff", women can play with toy trucks and baseball just as easily as dolls and makeup).
My sister, nieces, etc all went through it.

Check back in about 4 years when the kid develops more..in the meantime, dont push nor condemn anything. The mother in this story is far, far too delighted to turn the daughter into a unique conversation piece...honestly, the kid is just growing up and experiencing expression..the mother needs psychological help at this point.

"thats nice honey, go cut the grass" is all the response that needs.

People need to stop giving their kids life-wrecking mental disorders.

Guide them, or give them to someone who can, they don't deserve it.


"Welcome to Costco, I Love You!"

Interesting. My 11 year old daughter was telling me about a student in her class, who last year was a boy named Eric and this year he thinks hes a girl named Emily.
He dresses as a girl, his mother came into the class and said that Eric wants to be called Emily now and talk to the students briefly about this stuff.
I honestly dont care that the school didnt tell any other parents that Erics mom came in and gave a brief intro to LBGQT class ...(is that the correct abrv.)
But what kinda irked me, and i know its not my place to be irked by it at all, but i think the mother should have tried to discourage lil Eric from playin dress up at school.

My daughter tells me every day that the other boys put Eric through the ringer. That hes always crying, and upset, getting beat on by groups of boys.

All the power to Eric for putting on his dress everyday and going to school like that. But if it was my child, i would have tried to explain that most children at that age are not very receptive to something "different" and that they will say and do very mean things to people who represent things they dont understand.

Strange times that were living in.

DP

a reply to: Morrad

We have a far-reaching historical record of this, spanning several cultures across the globe.

In a different time and place, this kid might have been groomed as a healer or spiritual consultant. Instead, it's 2016 and people are denying it's even a thing.