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Alexandria will seek to move Confederate statue and rename Jefferson Davis Highway

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posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: intrepid

Yes it is. If he hadn't done it, he would have been just another southern politician. How many southern politicians from that time do you remember and why do you remember them?


Many but I'm guessing that this Canuck knows your history better than you. So, not your fault.

ETA: And when did this become about me?
edit on 19-9-2016 by intrepid because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: network dude

At least he didn't wax on publicly about how the blacks were too inferior to do anything else but be slaves. At least he did a lot of really good things that had nothing to do with keeping slaves. What did Davis do? He was a politician who helped break up our country - in order to keep slaves.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: network dude

At least he didn't wax on publicly about how the blacks were too inferior to do anything else but be slaves. At least he did a lot of really good things that had nothing to do with keeping slaves. What did Davis do? He was a politician who helped break up our country - in order to keep slaves.


This is futile. Like talking to a wall. My advice... read more.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

Maybe not bigoted (that depends on your definition). But it is absolutely prejudiced against a protected class (religion)


No, I do not consider it bigoted. It's not a prejudice. We are (or are supposed to be) a secular government. Its political.

What I see is a Powerful Forceful Political Lobby (primarily Southern Baptist fueled) - - trying to control me by THEIR God belief.

Of course there are individuals that just live their lives by their God belief without trying to force others.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

I don't mean you personally. I mean you in the universal sense.

Look, neither of us were there at the time, but I have access to just as many historical records as you do. The fact is, the tax/tariff situation was getting worked out before Lincoln was even elected. Lincoln was against slavery (as most of the Republicans at that time in history), and part of his platform was to limit the expansion of slavery and to find a way to regulate slavery in the existing southern states to prevent misuse/abuse of slaves. The fact is, the southern states did not like that one bit - to deny that is crazy.

Was there animosity between the northern states and the southern states? You bet. Was it only about slaves? No, but the abolitionists groups in the north were very vocal and very dedicated to their cause. Slavery WAS a major issue - to deny that is crazy.

Davis did try to avoid secession and he did try to avoid a war, BUT he also publicly bashed abolitionists and he felt the South was doing blacks a favor by enslaving them. That's a fact. I just don't see any wonderful things that were accomplished because of Davis. Maybe you can enlighten me on all his great accomplishments. He thought blacks were inferior, he thought slavery was a wonderful way of life, and he couldn't even make his beloved South win the war. Yet he was great... why?



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I think most of the Christians that believe our laws should be Christian migrated to Dominionism. Either way sweeping generalizations only hurt us all.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Annee

I think most of the Christians that believe our laws should be Christian migrated to Dominionism. Either way sweeping generalizations only hurt us all.


The Christian Lobby, Moral Majority, and the GOP Christian position - - - were and are real. - - - and politically powerful.

Its not a sweeping generalization.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


There are also some people from African descendants that hate white people.


Yes there is. I'm not sure what that has to do with slavery and honoring Confederates.



Why only bring up racist of one color?


Well the topic is the elected City Council of Alexandria's decision to remove some tributes to heroes of The Confederacy which existed to preserve slavery.



I have empathy for slaves. I continue for have empathy for slaves that exists today all over the world


I would hope and I think that most people do.



yet many of the same people focused on how racist this countries history was tell me that I can't criticize the cultures that have actual slavery continuing today (go figure).


This seems to be a mass illusion. I think all terrorist cultures are sick and evil, I think all bigot cultures are sick and evil, all cultures that oppress women or minorities are sick and evil. I'm just not so stupid as to point in one direction and say that's who I'm talking about because there isn't a direction you can't point to accurately.



The founding fathers may have owned slaves, but they set up a system to make us all equal.


Yes and they made it the law of the land, it was noble and great... and as we progress we realize that more and more groups fall under it's protection. We can praise the frame they wrote while we simultaneously condemn their ownership of people. The Abolitionist movement began with the signing of the Declaration of Independence.



such as almost all countries having a history of slavery.


Yeah, it was pretty common. Doesn't change what happened here and that doesn't have much to do with how we preserve that history.



I have no white guilt. I will treat all people based on their character rather than their color.


Good. That's how it should be in my opinion.



I understand that some people get offended by the actions of historical figures


I thinks it's more the notion to memorialize them as heroes on the tax payer dime that pisses some people off.



I think Mohammed Ali said some very vile things about not wanting whites and blacks to mix


He was not a fan of white people in the 60s that's for sure.



yet did I run around demanding that no one celebrate his death, or that any on the memorials to him be removed?


No but some people got incensed at the mourning of his passing and not one of them is rotting away in PC prison.



Where is your empathy for the poor confederate soldiers that died that never owned slaves


I feel badly that some were forced, I praise the ones that helped slaves escape to the north usually losing their lives in the process. Weird that they aren't memorialized. Generally though, no I don't feel much empathy for them.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Very good. I can accept that you have clarified that the statement made about "Personally, I wouldn't ask a Southern Baptist anything." is just hyperbole, and not really a sweeping generalization. Lord knows I use/abuse hyperbole (along with mixing/matching metaphors). And no doubt the more political actions of the Southern Baptist groups that are out there make you wish they'd go away. To be honest, i'd likely lump any lobby into that box reserved for disdain. They all are buying out our voices.

I know it comes across as pedantic on my part. Its just important to me that individuals be judged on individual merit and not some inborn trait or affiliation.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

Very good. I can accept that you have clarified that the statement made about "Personally, I wouldn't ask a Southern Baptist anything." is just hyperbole, and not really a sweeping generalization. Lord knows I use/abuse hyperbole (along with mixing/matching metaphors). And no doubt the more political actions of the Southern Baptist groups that are out there make you wish they'd go away. To be honest, i'd likely lump any lobby into that box reserved for disdain. They all are buying out our voices.

I know it comes across as pedantic on my part. Its just important to me that individuals be judged on individual merit and not some inborn trait or affiliation.



Sorry 'bout that. I actually had bosses from Peachtree City, GA. Very nice people in general. Of course, my immediate boss, with her southern charm did state (absolutely true), she could stick a knife in someone's back, twist it, and never lose her smile. Maybe that's southern humor. I didn't really think it was funny.

But, Yes - - I mostly see the Political Position the Southern Baptist take. Not just the Lobbyists, but NOM, Million Moms, etc.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: Annee

So say most who paint with as broad a brush as you just did...

Only some of them use Jew, Blacks, Muslims, etc... How is your statement different, again?

It's not. That's the reality.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Hey Annee I also do not believe you are a bigot. We may disagree on many things, but you have also seemed like a good a fair person to me.

This does go to show though how words can be misconstrued by others and make people seem worse than they are actually saying.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:51 PM
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Just think..Possibly 4 mores years of this bs.Whats next,Black Panther University?



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Annee

Hey Annee I also do not believe you are a bigot. We may disagree on many things, but you have also seemed like a good a fair person to me.

This does go to show though how words can be misconstrued by others and make people seem worse than they are actually saying.



Thanks. I'm not. And I do try to be open and fair.

Yes, I can see how it got misconstrued. I'm very pro secular government.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: network dude

What people tend to forget, a monument wont change human nature, it wont change the past so we might not do the same mistakes in the future. How long did it take for the children of Europe to forget the horrors of WW1 and WW2? 70 Years.. Most of the young have no future hope, so they start looking for a purpose and it aint no statue or monument with a story that is gonna make them think otherwise.

It seems to many clings on to the past, does it offer hope? a purpose? food on the table? Does it offer a solution for the American way of life? It doesnt, nothing since the American revolution has in any way progressed humanity, it offered a culture that opposes anything that offers a solution.

Most of the employment has a third world view on it, yet just look to your cousins with a culture even younger than yours, ( Australia ) or your brother in Canada and their view.

America failed somewhere along the line, and one of those failures is the one you are protecting. It needs a closure and its needs to be destroyed and put in the history books. If it " poking a bear you call it " then by all means, everything has a cost.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I understood you perfectly fine, i think you had numerous good points. A simple thing you often do when someone wins the argument, you divert it into something totally different.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Annee

I understood you perfectly fine, i think you had numerous good points. A simple thing you often do when someone wins the argument, you divert it into something totally different.


Thanks. I knew what I meant.

Sometimes what you mean doesn't translate to others or can be confusing.

I accept that.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: yuppa

At the time it was still constitutional. And Intrepids right. the declaration apparently didnt include the slaves when it was written otherwise there would had been none after. They werent considered men by the founding fathers at that time.


That's not entirely true. Thomas Jefferson considered them men/humans. John Adams considered them men/humans and he refused to keep slaves on his farm. Many others agreed, some didn't. The overall consensus at the time the declaration was written was that all states were needed to sign off on the declaration in order to have any success in fighting the British. The founding fathers knew that if they abolished slavery right then, they would lose those states. They decided to save that fight for another day. They essentially kicked that can down the road.

Do we consider black people men/humans/citizens today? Yes, and you can thank Lincoln in part for that.


So essentially they committed fraud and or co ersion then. so in reality this country is not a legal country at all according to modern law.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: yuppa

The North didn't have a huge farming industry they had mills and equipment manufacturing and you conveniently forget that no, it didn't cost slave owners to feed their slaves as the slaves grew the crops they ate the scraps of. You need to look at the polar economies of the Antebellum period.


I assummed my SARCASM identifier i added would had made it clear i knew the north didnt have Farming. POint was the NORTH wanted what the SOUTH had and they wanted it for the lowest price. And they also charged high taxes on southern goods to line their own pockets and build that Stuff in the first place.

And also SLave owners did provide them with food(the good ones that actually had large populations of them) Now the more greedy slave owners you might have a point,but slaves werent cheap to buy so it didnt make sense to at least not feed and water them. Anything written by the north/feds is made to cover lincolns arse so dont believe those figures you cite.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I'm confused. What part of renaming a highway and removing a statue causes schools and universities to stop teaching history, causes Civil War historians to pursue other careers, libraries to stop stocking history books, or the internet to be purged of historical content?



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