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Ahmad Khan Rahami wanted in connection to NYC bombings

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posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Funny how tyrannical actions are okay when it's "your guy" in charge, eh?

Extreme vetting for all eh? How extreme? A little waterboarding maybe?

Or "a hell of a lot worse?"

Sure. Who needs that Constitutional thing anyway, eh?


You are conflating two issues.
Waterboarding and 'a hell of a lot worse' was about interrogation of terrorists, not immigration vetting.


You may want to review what your man said again. "A hell of a lot worse" was a general comment.

Given that it's Trump ... who knows?


I don't need to review it. I know he said that. He just didn't say it about immigration. He said it about terrorists.




posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Funny how tyrannical actions are okay when it's "your guy" in charge, eh?

Extreme vetting for all eh? How extreme? A little waterboarding maybe?

Or "a hell of a lot worse?"

Sure. Who needs that Constitutional thing anyway, eh?


You are conflating two issues.
Waterboarding and 'a hell of a lot worse' was about interrogation of terrorists, not immigration vetting.


You may want to review what your man said again. "A hell of a lot worse" was a general comment.

Given that it's Trump ... who knows?


I don't need to review it. I know he said that. He just didn't say it about immigration. He said it about terrorists.


Isn't the idea that you and so many here are desperately trying to sell that immigrants are how terrorists get here?

(Starting to see the flaw in your logic yet?)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

Funny how tyrannical actions are okay when it's "your guy" in charge, eh?

Extreme vetting for all eh? How extreme? A little waterboarding maybe?

Or "a hell of a lot worse?"

Sure. Who needs that Constitutional thing anyway, eh?


You are conflating two issues.
Waterboarding and 'a hell of a lot worse' was about interrogation of terrorists, not immigration vetting.


You may want to review what your man said again. "A hell of a lot worse" was a general comment.

Given that it's Trump ... who knows?


I don't need to review it. I know he said that. He just didn't say it about immigration. He said it about terrorists.


Isn't the idea that you and so many here are desperately trying to sell that immigrants are how terrorists get here?

(Starting to see the flaw in your logic yet?)


No, but I am seeing yours.
Immigration control, specifically screening, is designed to stop terrorists (among other undesirables) from getting into the country by hiding amongst other peace-loving immigrants just looking to contribute and have a better life. That is fairly obvious.
At no point has Trump said he wants to waterboard or 'do worse' to immigrants.

You seem unable to separate immigrants from terrorists, which you really must start doing. It does explain a lot of your confusion in the past though.
edit on 20/9/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Waterboarding and worse is a tactic to use against real and potential terrorists.

You seem to be unable to see that your man Trump is a man of extremes. If immigrants are hiding terrorists (which is the claim) are you really saying that you don't think he intends to apply whatever "extreme vetting" makes sense to him?

Immigrants are hiding terrorists, right? Isn't that the justification for changing the system?

How utterly naive that you don't see that.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Waterboarding and worse is a tactic to use against real and potential terrorists.

You seem to be unable to see that your man Trump is a man of extremes. If immigrants are hiding terrorists (which is the claim) are you really saying that you don't think he intends to apply whatever "extreme vetting" makes sense to him?

Immigrants are hiding terrorists, right? Isn't that the justification for changing the system?

How utterly naive that you don't see that.


You can assume what you like, but the fact remains the comments Trump made are about terrorists, not immigrants. There is no evidence to say he would use waterboarding on immigrants to vet them. I find the suggestion absurd.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Trump said that we're letting in people as immigrants that are dangerous ... either because they're rapists, drug dealers and/or terrorists.

Yes or no? Is that the reason for "extreme vetting" or not?

Is his solution to deal with terrorists "waterboarding and worse" or not?

You don't have to like what your man says, but don't misrepresent something we all know to be true.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Trump said that we're letting in people as immigrants that are dangerous ... either because they're rapists, drug dealers and/or terrorists.

Yes or no? Is that the reason for "extreme vetting" or not?

Is his solution to deal with terrorists "waterboarding and worse" or not?

You don't have to like what your man says, but don't misrepresent something we all know to be true.


Post the link that shows Trump saying he wants to waterboard immigrants as part of vetting.
Put up or shut up.

edit on 20/9/2016 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: poncho1982

Thankfully, we have 225 years of jurisprudence from the Supreme Court that makes it clear that "free exercise thereof" has some very specific meanings and isn't just left up to "whatever we think it means." For example, Reynolds v. United States (1878), the most clear interpretation relating to this question is that if an act is illegal (like say, murdering someone) in general, there is no religious defense for it, because the law does not directly address or restrict the religion in making murder illegal.

Reynolds (1878)

So, Congress (and the States, and the local governments) can legislate against actions but cannot legislate (or prescribe legal action) against any individual religion or code of belief.

If we are going to exclude Constitutional protections to religions that inspire or justify violence, in the present or historically, then it is a certain fact that all would be banned. Obviously, that is not what the Constitution intends.

Indeed, the Constitution does tell us what the Government cannot do, and what it cannot do is target one religion for legal action to the exclusion of all others.



LOL, OK.

All it takes, is relabeling islam to a cult.

It's not a religion, unless they says it is really.

Why else do churches, mosques...etc need to be recognized as a religion to get tax free status?



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: poncho1982


You may not want to hear this, but islam is proving itself to be a violent religion. I'd even go so far as to say it's already been proven via history.



The only effective way to properly stop this is with free and unfettered education across the planet. Remove the burden of ignorance and inequality and things improve - that is something that history has repeatedly proved throughout the ages.


Funny. all things islam and Shariah Law are against.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Trump said that we're letting in people as immigrants that are dangerous ... either because they're rapists, drug dealers and/or terrorists.

Yes or no? Is that the reason for "extreme vetting" or not?

Is his solution to deal with terrorists "waterboarding and worse" or not?

You don't have to like what your man says, but don't misrepresent something we all know to be true.


So when someone says they are going to hold you to a set of extreme standards to make sure you are worthy of the post, you automatically think they are going to be waterboarding you?



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Trump said that we're letting in people as immigrants that are dangerous ... either because they're rapists, drug dealers and/or terrorists.

Yes or no? Is that the reason for "extreme vetting" or not?

Is his solution to deal with terrorists "waterboarding and worse" or not?

You don't have to like what your man says, but don't misrepresent something we all know to be true.


So when someone says they are going to hold you to a set of extreme standards to make sure you are worthy of the post, you automatically think they are going to be waterboarding you?


Nope. But then again, I'm not Mr. Trump who has suggested that terrorists are slipping in by hiding among immigrants, and he's made it more than clear that he is very willing to use waterboarding and worse to deal with terrorists.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: poncho1982

Nope. It doesn't matter what you "label" someone else's religion.

Tax status is based on several different classifications of non-profit activities. None are merely "because we say so."

Do you have a religious faith?

Would you like me, who is atheist and a-religious, to classify your faith as "a cult" and restrict your ability to worship as you see fit?

There's a lot of very good reasons for the separation of church and state.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

Trump said that we're letting in people as immigrants that are dangerous ... either because they're rapists, drug dealers and/or terrorists.

Yes or no? Is that the reason for "extreme vetting" or not?

Is his solution to deal with terrorists "waterboarding and worse" or not?

You don't have to like what your man says, but don't misrepresent something we all know to be true.


Post the link that shows Trump saying he wants to waterboard immigrants as part of vetting.
Put up or shut up.


Why don't you post the one where he clarifies that's not what he wants to do?

I mean, he must have said it very clearly, if the two things are separate in his mind, right?

Are you saying Trump has not stated, clearly, that immigration is used to send terrorists, rapists, drug dealers, etc. here?

Are you saying that Trump has not stated, clearly, what he's wiling to do to keep us safe from terrorists?

You do the math.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:43 PM
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“These attacks and many others were made possible because of our extremely open immigration system, which fails to properly vet and screen the individuals coming into our country. We have seen how failures to screen those who are entering the U.S. puts all of our citizens, everyone in this room, in danger.”

So let me state very, very clearly. Immigration security is national security.


Donald J. Trump - Speech 9/19/2016

This happens to be the same speech in which he suggests that Ahmad Khan Rahami doesn't deserve legal representation.

It's very clear from these comments made YESTERDAY that there is a direct relationship in Trump's mind between terrorism and immigration.

Decide for yourselves.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

He is an immigrant who became a terrorist. He was investigated by the FBI. He went to Paki and Afghanistan.

My question is....where are the members of his mosque? Someone knew. There is always some who knew.

As far as dad, he was a Mujahdeen evidently but did not like the Taliban.

This is not Joe and Suzi Muslim homemaker.



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 01:03 AM
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Apparently even his own father alerted that his son is a terrorist

The Guardian

Remember the Tamerlan brothers, where Russia warned? Remember the Underwear bomber, where the father warned...



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 01:41 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

He is an immigrant who became a terrorist. He was investigated by the FBI. He went to Paki and Afghanistan.

My question is....where are the members of his mosque? Someone knew. There is always some who knew.

As far as dad, he was a Mujahdeen evidently but did not like the Taliban.

This is not Joe and Suzi Muslim homemaker.


How many immigrants are not or did not become terrorists? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

Are you telling me that your church members know every detail of your political beliefs?

As svetlana noted, his dad turned him in. What more was supposed to happen? Are we supposed to incarcerate/punish people because their parents/someone in the mosque told us they are guilty???

"Joe and Suzi Muslim homemaker"? Cute. Utterly dismissive and condescending, but cute. (Not.)

I'm sure you're responding to me because you're tacitly defending Trump's position in this, that immigrants are terrorists.

Sure. What's the percentage currently? 2/1000? 2/10,000? Using that criteria, I can just as easily say that all real estate moguls are fraudsters and criminals. I mean, there's more than two good examples of that, right?



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 03:48 AM
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originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: poncho1982


You may not want to hear this, but islam is proving itself to be a violent religion. I'd even go so far as to say it's already been proven via history.



The only effective way to properly stop this is with free and unfettered education across the planet. Remove the burden of ignorance and inequality and things improve - that is something that history has repeatedly proved throughout the ages.


Funny. all things islam and Shariah Law are against.


I'm sorry but that is one of the most ignorant things i have read in a long time. So Islam doesn't believe in acquiring and spreading knowledge? It doesn't promote education?

If you genuinely believe that then i suggest you start reading some history books. You can start anywhere really but i would suggest trying to start with the Almohads in Spain and working your ways forwards. You may learn something......



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: poncho1982

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: poncho1982


You may not want to hear this, but islam is proving itself to be a violent religion. I'd even go so far as to say it's already been proven via history.



The only effective way to properly stop this is with free and unfettered education across the planet. Remove the burden of ignorance and inequality and things improve - that is something that history has repeatedly proved throughout the ages.


Funny. all things islam and Shariah Law are against.


I'm sorry but that is one of the most ignorant things i have read in a long time. So Islam doesn't believe in acquiring and spreading knowledge? It doesn't promote education?

If you genuinely believe that then i suggest you start reading some history books. You can start anywhere really but i would suggest trying to start with the Almohads in Spain and working your ways forwards. You may learn something......


You said "free and unfettered education".

Yes, that is 100% something islam is against.
edit on 21-9-2016 by poncho1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2016 @ 05:58 AM
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a reply to: poncho1982

I really don't want to accuse you of pushing an agenda or anything - everything media related is tainted by Islamophobia these days.

But if you want a real picture of Islam, look no further than the El Geniza Synagogue in Cairo and the records found there. When "discovered", it contained hundreds of thousands of records of life and daily interactions under the Fatimid Caliphates between the 10th and 13th Centuries, as well as having records dating back far earlier including an original Hebrew text of of the Book of Wisdom by Ben Sira that became Ecclisiastics in the Bible. This period was during the Crusades and yet still paints a life of tolerance and education.

Bottom line, Islam has always been a tolerant religion. A few crazy Imams does not change that. Yes, Islam has problems but this narrative of saying Islam is not tolerant is so far from the truth it is unreal.



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