Question for someone familiar with college lvl western civilization.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: JoshuaCox

#triggered
lmao

Uh, Judaism is super important to western civ.

You didn't know?
Well good thing you're learning it, then, huh?!

What's wrong? History does mesh with what the Bible says, you know. It's history. Sorry if you don't like it. It's what happened. I'm taking that class, too. It's what it is. You obviously don't understand/are missing the point because you're not letting yourself see that this is just history. I'm surprised this is the first you've heard about it.

Nothing is telling you what to believe about religion lol. The history book doesn't bible thump, okay? It tells you history. Because it's a history book.

Moving along, let me tell you the exact answer to your confusion: the Jews were enslaved in Egypt, Moses saved them, then they wandered in the desert for forty years until they came to the Promised Land. But then the Persians sacked them. Then the Romans did. And then Israel was formed in 1948. And this narrative of exile and return really resonates with people--like black slaves, civil rights activists, feminists--you name it. This was all especially influential in Europe and the United States. There, you understand why you need to learn it now? It explains what we mean when we say western civilization because western civilization can't be defined because the definition keeps growing. Judaism is about CULTURAL PLURALISM.

Do you know what cultural pluralism means? Go look it up.

THAT'S THE POINT. Get it?
THAT'S WHY IT IS SO INFLUENTIAL DING DING DINNNNNGGGG

And that also proves that you're totally mistaken in thinking this is some controversy.
You're welcome for thinking for you. Go get your book or drop the class but there's no conspiracy here and there's nothing strange about this at all--you're just ignorant (by your own admission) about history. Change that or don't--I do not care. But I hope I helped to remedy your confusion. You're welcome for giving you the answer, not that you'll be thanking me, I'll wager

I wasn't saying Judaism wasn't super important, I'm saying she specifically chose to include it, but then chose to use christianities interpretation of Jewish history. Not Jewish history or arceology.

With her using all the normal academic disclaimers like "I think and they thought". It then when talking about the anchient Jews, she Swapps over to "we know, the Jews were in Egypt.


I'm sorry you took it as anti Semitic, half of my problem was she isn't correctly representing them from their own pov. It's modern christianities veiw, where strangly "Jesus matched the prophecy but the Jews were just BSing.."

I vove history and would pay good money to learn the actual history of anchient Judah.


Nor do I think there is a Christian conspiracy in universities, just maybe a rogue evangelical history teacher.

It seems as if she has adlibed the OT into a history class when the principals arnt in the Normal sylabus.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I vove history and would pay good money to learn the actual history of anchient Judah.

There are two answers to this;
a) John Bright, History of Israel, as I suggested before.
b) A couple of years back, I did a brief series of threads on the politics of the reign of David.
E.g. Joab and Abner
These took the story from his original accession to the struggle to succeed him.
My current threads are looking at the later kings of Judah.
My fee is payable in cups of coffee.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I vove history and would pay good money to learn the actual history of anchient Judah.

There are two answers to this;
a) John Bright, History of Israel, as I suggested before.
b) A couple of years back, I did a brief series of threads on the politics of the reign of David.
E.g. Joab and Abner
These took the story from his original accession to the struggle to succeed him.
My current threads are looking at the later kings of Judah.
My fee is payable in cups of coffee.

This is kinda me putting 2+2 togather, but would you say the messiah prophecy was mostly about "wars of succession" which stopped them from defending against outside invasion??


I know civil wars fought over succession type issues has lead to the down fall of multiple civilizations.

And that ( from what I have seen) from the Jewish pov the messiah prophecy was for a warrior King who would provide the heriditary line of kings who would "take them to the top." Not a son of God who would die for their sins.

So it made me wonder if civil wars over succession issues hadn't lead to the Jews being invaded repeatedly and insulated, leading to the creation of the messiah prophecy.

Finally, no more infighting so they could actually put up a good defense when invaded..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I know civil wars fought over succession type issues has lead to the down fall of multiple civilizations.

The northern kingdom, which broke away from David's house, was plagued with infighting which I described in this post;
The killing of kings in kingdom Israel
The downfall of Judah itself was more about refusal to accept subordination to larger and stronger nations like the Babylonians.

...if civil wars over succession issues hadn't lead to the Jews being invaded repeatedly and insulated, leading to the creation of the messiah prophecy.
Finally, no more infighting so they could actually put up a good defense when invaded..

Messiah prophecy did not get going until after the kingdom of Judah had been broken up. It was part of a theme of "restoration". God would make his people safe and secure again.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
I know civil wars fought over succession type issues has lead to the down fall of multiple civilizations.

The northern kingdom, which broke away from David's house, was plagued with infighting which I described in this post;
The killing of kings in kingdom Israel
The downfall of Judah itself was more about refusal to accept subordination to larger and stronger nations like the Babylonians.

...if civil wars over succession issues hadn't lead to the Jews being invaded repeatedly and insulated, leading to the creation of the messiah prophecy.
Finally, no more infighting so they could actually put up a good defense when invaded..

Messiah prophecy did not get going until after the kingdom of Judah had been broken up. It was part of a theme of "restoration". God would make his people safe and secure again.

Is the part about it referring to a hereditary line , rather than one man who would sacrifice himself correct?

a reply to: JoshuaCox
No, they are talking about one ruler who will continue for ever;
"Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end"- Isaiah ch9 v7
"His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away"- Daniel ch7 v14

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
No, they are talking about one ruler who will continue for ever;
"Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end"- Isaiah ch9 v7
"His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away"- Daniel ch7 v14

What is the Jewish (modern/anchient) interpretation of the messiah prophecy. The wiki (I know, I know) specifically mentions the messiah having an heir.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
No, they are talking about one ruler who will continue for ever;
"Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end"- Isaiah ch9 v7
"His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away"- Daniel ch7 v14

In fact appearently Cyrus the great was also dubbed a messiah. I think implying the messiah prophecy wasn't the primary or central point of Judaism then or now..

a reply to: JoshuaCox
Cyrus re-established the community of Judah, by allowing them to return from the Babylonian exile.
The revival of Judah was exactly what they wanted their God to do, so Cyrus could be seen as an (unconscious) agent of God.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Cyrus re-established the community of Judah, by allowing them to return from the Babylonian exile.
The revival of Judah was exactly what they wanted their God to do, so Cyrus could be seen as an (unconscious) agent of God.

Absolutely just pointing out "messiah" wasn't talking about one guy.

Update!!!!


She might just be an idiot.


She just mispronounced hoplite, river Styx, elyisian fields and phalanx. All, in my opinion, words that any grade school history teacher should have known the pronunciation of....


Maybe not the crazy evangelical mastermind skillfully weaving in Christianity after all. Lol