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Question for someone familiar with college lvl western civilization.

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posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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My western civ teacher (appearently not a professor) is teaching the history of the Jewish people, not from archeology, nor the Jewish people. No she is teaching the history of anchient Judah as told by the Christian version of the Old Testament... In a history class...in college..... Without ANY of the normal academic disclaimers like "I think, or modern Christians believe", instead preferring things like "we know the Jews were in Egypt", we know the anchient Jews predicted a sone of God messiah who would sacrifice himself for them, spiritually."





Now I haven't bought the book yet, but I'm betting the book cannot have the Old Testament as the defacto recognized historical account of the Jews and need someone more knowledgable about college level history and politics per say.
edit on 17-9-2016 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

What school is this at?



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:40 PM
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You should read & keep a copy of The Encyclopaedia Judaica and then rebut everything your teacher says.

Teach the class yourself with wise counter points.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
I don't know that particular course, but I am familiar with history generally.
I have to tell you that modern academics do not use the Old Testament as a straight source for the history of ancient Israel.
Of course it will be the main source of literary information, simply because there isn't much else except archaeology and the records of other civilisations. However, they will view it with a critical eye. To take one example, they will think that the "invasion" period is better reflected in the scrappy events of Judges ch1 than in the idealised (from the Israelite standpoint) account of Joshua.
John Bright's classic history of Israel should be near the top of your reading list.


edit on 17-9-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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How is the "Christian version of the Old Testament" different than any other version? The New Testament is Christian. The Old Testament is, besides a lot of other things, an historical document of a few tribes of desert dwellers. Insofar as you can separate out the myth from the history, it is as valid a document as any other of a period where very little is documented at all. I agree that getting that encyclopedia will supplement your education. There's no reason to assume this course will be slanted toward Christianity. I mean, you haven't taken the course yet, right? And it's a lower level course, right? You may be jumping to conclusions a priori here.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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It's still early days in the semester. Is she pulling one on the class, to see who will refute her claims taken from biblical sources at the end?

I once took an entry level history class that took this approach. The professor stated after awhile that, "I could tell you anything about history, or you could look it up. What you really need to be amateur historians, and to pass this class, is the ability to think critically."



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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Unfortunately this is much like all of academia these days. First . . . it is common for grad students to teach the more basic West Civ courses etc... the actual professors don't want to deal with the freshmen and sophomores who are not actually majors. As for the content . . . yes sad but true most professors push their ideological beliefs as fact in the classroom and is also why we get all the stuck up social heroes who don't know their arses from their noses. You teacher probably truly believes that the bible represents the actual historical events of the world. Good luck with your class. If you wanna be like me, learn the real material and get in trouble daily by rebutting the teacher in class (I don't recommend, although you may want to learn the real material for your own sake). However; if you want a good grade, just regurgitate what your teacher says back to her on the tests.

Good luck, try not to sleep too much in class, because I would.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 02:12 PM
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Jewish history has been rewritten so many times it is a fact that it is lost. Only thing left is the ancient scrolls which is hidden from public for zionist regime.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Yes...I agree. And Jesus...a Jew...never disccussed Christianity with the Rabbis in the Temple.

Moses wasnt a Christian...nor David...Solomon...Noah...Joseph and Mary. Nor Herod...or Abraham, Issac, Aaron, Enoch...Lot and his wive and daughters....none including Jesus at 1st...were Christians..and there was no bible to study from...YET!

All..ALL of them studied (and Jesus argued with the Rabbis over it) the "scriptures"...which were not in any Bible...again...because there wasnt one.

All of the above...the basis of all Christianity after Christ's death and resurrection...were the Jewish Scriptures-5 Books of the Torah.

If one wants to get technical? To study what Jesus and all the others did PRIOR to the BIBLE...all Christians should study the 1-5 books of the Torah/Bible...which is a Hebrew scripture -a collection of books....that created the Old Testament.

Also...the Old Testament wasnt Chrisitan in orientation...because there wasnt any Christianity. Soooo many people are dumbfounded to that fact, because they just never put it into perspective.

Someone once told me. If I want to be like Christ was in knowledge...I'd have to master the Hebrew Scriptures...FIRST. Because its from them...that Jesus studied...and that formed what we know as the Old Testament.

I also met a few who called me nuts. The old testament IS Christian...and Jesus himself studied them as Christianity.

Well...we all do know the difference in distinction....some find that hard to believe.* (They need more study of the early days before and after the life of the Man from Nazareth.)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
You should read & keep a copy of The Encyclopaedia Judaica and then rebut everything your teacher says.

Teach the class yourself with wise counter points.


Yeah. Prof's love to be shown up.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 03:08 PM
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College level western civilization? I had to train many people right out of college with 4 year degree's. Useless as tits on a duck.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler
How is the "Christian version of the Old Testament" different than any other version? The New Testament is Christian. The Old Testament is, besides a lot of other things, an historical document of a few tribes of desert dwellers. Insofar as you can separate out the myth from the history, it is as valid a document as any other of a period where very little is documented at all. I agree that getting that encyclopedia will supplement your education. There's no reason to assume this course will be slanted toward Christianity. I mean, you haven't taken the course yet, right? And it's a lower level course, right? You may be jumping to conclusions a priori here.



It differs from the Torah espeacially in infasis if I'm correct. The messiah prophecy not even really taking center stage.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox
It's the same wording. The difference is in the interpretation. The emphasis.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:28 PM
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originally posted by: Atsbhct
It's still early days in the semester. Is she pulling one on the class, to see who will refute her claims taken from biblical sources at the end?

I once took an entry level history class that took this approach. The professor stated after awhile that, "I could tell you anything about history, or you could look it up. What you really need to be amateur historians, and to pass this class, is the ability to think critically."



If so its deep cover, as she told the class she was a Christian and thus didn't agree with evolution, but it was in her sylabus. So she had to..


Even mentioned most western civ teachers ignore Egypt, but she works it in ...

Making me wonder if most of the class isn't her opinion, sold as fact.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
I don't know that particular course, but I am familiar with history generally.
I have to tell you that modern academics do not use the Old Testament as a straight source for the history of ancient Israel.
Of course it will be the main source of literary information, simply because there isn't much else except archaeology and the records of other civilisations. However, they will view it with a critical eye. To take one example, they will think that the "invasion" period is better reflected in the scrappy events of Judges ch1 than in the idealised (from the Israelite standpoint) account of Joshua.
John Bright's classic history of Israel should be near the top of your reading list.




IMHO she is telling the history of anchient Judah ONLY from the OT account. Which if I'm right differs from the Torah and when you still have Jews around, you should be using there history. Not the revised account in the OT.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoshuaCox
It's the same wording. The difference is in the interpretation. The emphasis.






Well she is telling their history with the OT interpretation. Not the Jewish one...


I just want to make sure I go to bat with the most mainstream interpretation.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:54 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Making me wonder if most of the class isn't her opinion, sold as fact.


I had more than one prof that their source material was written by them. Deviate at your own peril.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: JoshuaCox

What school is this at?




Just the local community college



posted on Sep, 18 2016 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

#triggered
lmao

Uh, Judaism is super important to western civ.

You didn't know?
Well good thing you're learning it, then, huh?!

What's wrong? History does mesh with what the Bible says, you know. It's history. Sorry if you don't like it. It's what happened. I'm taking that class, too. It's what it is. You obviously don't understand/are missing the point because you're not letting yourself see that this is just history. I'm surprised this is the first you've heard about it.

Nothing is telling you what to believe about religion lol. The history book doesn't bible thump, okay? It tells you history. Because it's a history book.

Moving along, let me tell you the exact answer to your confusion: the Jews were enslaved in Egypt, Moses saved them, then they wandered in the desert for forty years until they came to the Promised Land. But then the Persians sacked them. Then the Romans did. And then Israel was formed in 1948. And this narrative of exile and return really resonates with people--like black slaves, civil rights activists, feminists--you name it. This was all especially influential in Europe and the United States. There, you understand why you need to learn it now? It explains what we mean when we say western civilization because western civilization can't be defined because the definition keeps growing. Judaism is about CULTURAL PLURALISM.

Do you know what cultural pluralism means? Go look it up.

THAT'S THE POINT. Get it?
THAT'S WHY IT IS SO INFLUENTIAL DING DING DINNNNNGGGG

And that also proves that you're totally mistaken in thinking this is some controversy.
You're welcome for thinking for you. Go get your book or drop the class but there's no conspiracy here and there's nothing strange about this at all--you're just ignorant (by your own admission) about history. Change that or don't--I do not care. But I hope I helped to remedy your confusion. You're welcome for giving you the answer, not that you'll be thanking me, I'll wager

edit on 18-9-2016 by rukia because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2016 by rukia because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2016 by rukia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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One last thing, because I feel guilty for being so nasty to you, OP


Sorry about that. I didn't sleep last night and I've been talking about this same thing ad nauseam this past week. Anyway, not trying to excuse my behavior but I got a couple hours of sleep and oddly enough this was also the topic at church this week, so that made me feel kinda bad lol

Anyway, the main reason why this isn't some religious conspiracy goes off of what I said before about cultural pluralism. Basically, plenty of Jews are totally atheist. Many are agnostic. Beliefs of Jews come in all shapes and sizes. But one thing you have to know: most Jews don't believe in Jesus--therefore they aren't Christian. They are monotheistic. The Old Testament is actually the Torah--and this evidence in your book probably says in the fine print that the Old Testament is the best source because it's already translated in English. There are plenty of diverse sources that back up these facts of history--Egyptians have them, they're written in Sanscrit as well, like these things mesh with one another and they wouldn't do that if it wasn't true.

The Christian agenda is utterly absent from public education. Unless you're at a private school, nobody is going to get all religious on you. Heck, even when I was at a private Jesuit school, it was still super agnostic. Religion is not getting pushed in any higher educational institutions right now, so I guess the reason why I came at you so strongly was because I was just so incredulous and beside myself at how anyone could possibly think that what you said is true.

Okay and to the other people in the thread who got on the let's-hate-Jews burn the witch bandwagon, I get it that people don't like Zionists--that's fine. Understandable. But all of you need to realize that it's not just Jewish history that backs this stuff up--civilizations around them heard of it, and recorded it. Zionists don't need to rewrite history--the very idea is ludicrous. Why would they need to do that? It literally just sounds like a major waste of time. So please, guys, the tin foil hats are on a bit tight. The Jews are like...the smallest religious population ever in the history of ever. There's only 14 million in the world--most people have never even met a Jew. I've met many. None of them are crazy doom-seeking apocalypse bringers. They like good diners, actually. Oh, the horror


Aren't you all, who hate the Zionists, against being racist? Well then stop being flaming hypocrites!


And like, OP, back to you: it's okay that you don't know history very much, but I think it would really behoove you to use critical thinking next time you encounter a personal dilemma like this, in the future.

So--sorry for being a jerk, man. My bad.
edit on 18-9-2016 by rukia because: (no reason given)



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