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The Myth That Success Is Unearned

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posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SprocketUK

That is one of the reasons I believe that corporations should fund grants instead of the Government. The government never gets anything in return nor recoups its losses, when a corporation does it they control where and how the grant is used and utilize the findings of the research grant. Which are then used to create more jobs and motivate others to bring their ideas out of the dark and into the light per se.

We don't live in a perfect world. But if there was a country that had come near to that, it was the US until about 50 years ago.

I have a great Idea and simple product Idea to better another product, and I would like to get it created and licensed to market. But most of these companies that help want tens of thousands of dollars from me that I don't have. So far they have not taken my idea do to trade secret agreements. But how long will that last.

So what is keeping me from a successful product is these middleman corporations that are too greedy and don't want to invest in a good idea.



Corperations do fund grants and the results are terrible. My wife is a research professor I know all about the massive problem with conflicts of interest. When a corperarion funds projects they expect results even if you completely fabricate the results.

The problem is now since private funding for research the level of fabrication in the peer review process has moved to 50 percent false when retried results. This includes clinical studies on mental illness. The the chief editor NEJM released a pretty scary review of things like fabricated mental health diagnosis and treatment.

Science and expecting results is a very bad thing for expirementation. It has led to rampant conflict of interests and fabricarion of research.
edit on 17-9-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Cronism has existed since the first industrialists. Thats just a fact.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

?
I was not suggesting handing out one's aquired wealth wily nilly ...
And I agree in investing in people

A drug addict begging on the street for example is not helped by handing them money which will be spent on drugs
Though it may eleviate the persons wants ... is it what they truly need

Success often happens as a byproduct of passion and comitment to what one love's or believes in
Success is in acheiving such things money is secondary



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:56 AM
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Success comes about in many forms. Some talent, some effort, some luck, some birth, some association, usually a bit of all of the above. It's rarely any one of these things on their own. You can with extremes of any of these have some success by themselves. However success is rarely something that's straight up "earned" it's something that's achieved through various factors.

Where the issue is, what that success is worth, and what factors are deserving of what success.

The main issue is people are gaining way too much for some things, and way too little for others.

It's not success people have an issue with. It's extreme income disparity. If the highest extreme came down a little so that the lower and middle could rise up to a point where it wasn't a daily struggle to break even if that. There'd be no issue.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Peeple

well is that what everyone calls white privilege?

Because I am not buying into that one for sure.

I now this no matter what a man race or color is if he works hard he will be rewarded for it by higher wages, promotions and even partnerships.

White privilege is a myth also made up to make the rich kids born into wealth feel guitly and then try to put it on all whites as racist.

But then again you failed to mention those who came from nothing and made something of themselves. The ones who did build that.


Like who?



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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originally posted by: JDeLattre89
a reply to: SprocketUK




When you allow small numbers of people to stash away billions of dollars in trust funds and suchlike it means that there is less liquid money out there in the economy for everyone to chase. At some point, people realise that carrot is getting smaller and further away and they give up reaching for it.


What would have us do? Force people to spend money they earned . . . that doesn't sound right. Not everyone wants to spend their money as they earn it, and some spend it more wisely than others.



That's the trouble, isn't it?

Though to expand a bit, I wasn't talking about millionaires, but billionaires.
I don't have an answer, I can just see there's a problem.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Peeple


originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: luthier
Cronyism that is of late the last 50 years.

Levi jeans for example. Levi Strauss a tent maker decided to make jeans for the miners during the gold rush and made a company out of it.
the miners have been closed some for over a century but Levi's is still going.


Though his families business in San Francisco was a dry goods company he was asked by miners to make some a stronger more durable pants, using heavy denim tent cloth he created the jeans, later added rivets to it,because the miners had a habit of stuffing gold into their pockets and ripping them out.

Now why don't you try looking for some
edit on 17-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:02 AM
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That's so many kinds of wrong, if that's the best you can come up with and don't see how 100 years ago, there was no equality and that Strauss just as well took advantage from his family background, then....
edit on 17-9-2016 by Peeple because: Clarification



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:08 AM
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I think the true problem is that we try to divide people by broke and rich (even just singling out the billionaires) instead of viewing everyone as equal with the same standards across the board. Otherwise, you are simply conceding the advantage to those whom start off better.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Cronism historically speaking is seen to be ushered in by Grant. Which is well before 50 years ago. We are talking even the early industrialists were forming an oligachy and funding and influencing politics and politicians to write laws that beneifit their companies or provide massive funding without contract competitions. Carnegie for instance.

Also guys like Rockefellor.

In 1952 we performed a coup in Iran for the sole purpose of british oil companies. That was kind of an apex of how bad it got but not the first example.

We need seperarion of corperarions and state in a formal sense, anything beyound guidance from the industry is probably dangerous for democracy.
edit on 17-9-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

because you are the one who was biased giving only examples of the Elite instead of being honest and looking for those who by hard work and determination made their success.

Yes the wealthy have more time to be creative but their are those who did not have that luxury and your examples make it seem as if no one ever made it themselves by way of hard work and determination.

You sound like a liberal Elite yourself by you very example and replies.

edit on 17-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SprocketUK

I have been looking int a three D printer service. Not telling them what it is and then I might be able to get local steel manufacturing company to make a template for mass production. But I need some different sizes for different machines that my product will help. These are found in every Home. If I were to put one of these in one third of the American homes I would be a multi-millionaire.


If you really go at it, you can build your own 3d printer for a few hundred. You can get metalworking tools on ebay for a similar amount.
That's how I'd approach it. Even if it takes a week to make a couple of prototypes, those should be enough to prove the concept and you could crowd fund the money for real production.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: luthier

I was more on the lines that it had became more of the norm over the last 50 years. Sorry for not clarifying that.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am, so?
There is no analphabet, or someone without a proper education who can become successful nowadays.
You say that's possible, yet you fail to name one.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I already have a provable concept both by an actual prototype and scientific fact in the form of an product description.

How do you keep someone who views crowd funding from stealing the idea?
edit on 17-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Leonardo never had a formal education as he was deemed a "Bastard" (born out of wed lock
As such he was excluded

He said ... He was glad he received no formal eduction as it made him think for himself
His genuis lay in observing the nature of the world around him

So education is not always key
Eduction can stifle ones own inspiration in such cases



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove




It's not success people have an issue with. It's extreme income disparity. If the highest extreme came down a little so that the lower and middle could rise up to a point where it wasn't a daily struggle to break even if that. There'd be no issue.


You don't raise the lowest by lowering the highest. That is simply false logic that will get you nowhere but chasing your own tail.

Now in some instances it might work. It can even be regulated. Say in a school. . . you could legislate [locally of course] that an administrator could only make xx amount more than the lowest paid teacher. The result there would be a higher starting wage for teachers most likely. The same could possibly be done within businesses and corporations, but with very negative effects. The downside to this is you will shrink the talent pools by eliminating the people who could actually make the companies thrive, they would all go elsewhere. It's that whole talent pool thing (kinda annoying sometimes). You get the same result when you regulate that ALL doctors will make the same, the good ones leave to go somewhere they feel appreciated and leave behind the mediocre ones for everyone else.

It comes down to the more pay is based off of actual earning than what is given, the better people do. Well at least the ones who actually want to move ahead. You will always have those who are lazy or so ingrained in entitlement ideals that they will permanently be stuck at the bottom.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet

I don't know where you got your information from, but that was 1451, when most people were uneducated and he had a mentor from a pretty early age on, Andrea del Verrocchio, wasn't exactly nobody.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
I can't argue with that.

Success is definitely earned however we cannot deny that some people have to try harder to achieve the same level of success of some others.

It's just an unfortunate fact of the world that cannot be changed.
As a white trash Australian I believe that Will Smith's kids will not have to try as hard as me to gain success.

Do I try and sabotage the Smith kids or or do I just accept that life's not fair and soldier on?



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: JDeLattre89

You have to, you cannot have an infinitely growing wealth gap, at some point you have to reel the line back in some. The line has been cast too far and needs to be brought closer to the middle of the pond. There's only ever so much wealth at any given time, you can't fix the bottom without pulling from somewhere.







 
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