Staying in the Light

a reply to: Noinden

Projection? See the post above this one.

I probably should have clarified myself better as I may have improperly implied some sort of "hypocrisy". My intention wasn't that, though.

I find it generally interesting how lived bodily experience tends to incline people - along different interpretive mechanisms (me, science, mindfulness meditation, and a appreciation of the Hebrew Bible; or you, neopaganism, or him, satanism) - that ultimately converge on the same general set of lived values.

Also, as a prolific reader into relational and interpersonal psychoanalysis, I'd imagine my brain is less vulnerable to this dynamic (see my making an effort to clarify any mistakes I may have made i.e. I'm not perfect) than people who spend their days involved in field that do not study such processes.

a reply to: Astrocyte

You speak in unprovable generalizations (' the vast majority of people') even though you try to sell yourself as someone "educated in the sciences". You claim to be a writer (hey you said I claimed to be a scientist tit for tat), after all

So far all I am seeing is excuses. That is hardly the path to a higher existence, assuming that you are after such things. Myself I am happy with this life right now, you have to live it after all, none of this dreaming of the next life, and missing out on the current one.

Now as you seem to feel it is your place to dole out advice/wisdom to other (in both threads you've tried). Hows about this, come up for some air, and explore the others spiritual paths out there. Don't believe the dogma you've been spouting.

Try living by the motto: an fhirinne in aghaidh an tsaoil


Its a secular idea.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Come now neighbour, you claim to be a writer, so yes you should be clearer in your written word

Again you say "hebrew bible" do you object to using the correct name? The Tanakh. Words have power Astrocyte, you know this right? Names are some of the most powerful.

You clearly don't know what the "sets of values" different people live by are. Even inside the various Abrahamic faiths, the various sub sects of each of those three faiths, hold different values to some extent. This is the problem with "all part of the whole" thinking You will make mistakes.

I am not expecting you to be perfect, I certainly am not (after all I don't deny my emotions which seems to worry some of you, yet I don't seem to loose my balance either or make excuses).

a reply to: Noinden

the vast majority of people

Let me be more specific: you know the movies we've been fed? The T.V shows we've watched, like the Simpsons? It's quite normal and common - and "so general" for many many people - to have become acquainted with that symbol in terms of "the context" of satanism i.e. this is what the situation the symbol occurred within implies.

If you can't understand this, I leave it to the intelligent reader to discern who is being more reasonable between the two of us.

Now as you seem to feel it is your place to dole out advice/wisdom to other (in both threads you've tried). Hows about this, come up for some air, and explore the others spiritual paths out there. Don't believe the dogma you've been spouting.

Why would I do that if I think my path provides me a more coherent i.e. science-based understanding?

Spirituality needn't be the opposite of science. As far as I see it, the former (top-down) and the latter (down-up) are about to meet up.

The Human mind is still an animal mind - which is ironic, since, as a pagan, you seem less realistically related to your biological i.e. animal nature, than I am - according to you "a abrahamist".

It just seems strange to me: you're created and made real by natural processes occurring over evolutionary time, so why imagine that the truth is somehow not in the world?

You like it - you want to live it - just not in terms of what natural law i.e. science, suggests to be happening.

That seems like a mind that is against itself.

a reply to: Noinden

The Tanakh

Oh..hehe, I'm not necessarily interested in anything beyond BReI#H i.e. Genesis.

You clearly don't know what the "sets of values" different people live by are. Even inside the various Abrahamic faiths, the various sub sects of each of those three faiths, hold different values to some extent. This is the problem with "all part of the whole" thinking

I'm aware of that. But whats the point of exposing those values if the other will seek to deny it? The Other assumes they have complete knowledge - and if its based upon plenty of lived experiences - its a virtual impossibility to disabuse them of that. People - as we all know - will die before they change their views.

As far as I'm concerned, you could hate me, but you are still, I sense, a part of my nature i.e. you aren't an "other" so much as an aspect upon the World generated by a local ecology of conditions.

So can I change you? No. Should I still nevertheless search for ways we can agree? Yes.

As to the values and emotions which apparently I don't own, why not be specific as to which emotions, feelings and values you would imagine "worry me"?

a reply to: Astrocyte

Stop defending the ignorance you typed I understand why you wrote it. I corrected you. You did not like it. I must have triggered you or somethig (I'm just poking you, not serious).

You may think your path provides you a more coherent science based understanding of something. You have not yet demonstrated that to be so. My path is for my spirituality, and it does not come into conflict with my day job (science).

Yet again with the judgements on my path. You don't know what I do in my path. You accuse me in being "less realistically related to my biological side" what ever that means, yet I've embraced all my emotions as part of me. I can thus only conclude. You don't know a thing about paganism Either learn, or keep away from it.

Evolutionary time? Whats that then? Thats not science.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Then don't call it the "Hebrew bible" if you are into one book from it. Have you read the Hebrew versions or just the Christian?

As for the rest. You are hung up on "the other" and you are hung up on what you deem negative emotions

Anyway I'm out of here for the evening. Round two tomorrow

a reply to: SLAYER69

Love you, too, man! I feel like I was meant to read this thread... all of it... right here and right now. Tomorrow I shall go forth and attempt to conquer something I've been struggling with at a low level for a while now.

To all of you who have replied, I thank you, and wish for you a little piece of grace in your day tomorrow, and another one when you really need it and least expect it.

a reply to: Noinden

I did not mean by sayingI am for an age of reason that you are not
I can see how my curt reply could be seen that way

a reply to: Noinden

In this thread your responses to certain posters suggest the possibility that you are talking to a mirror.

I'm think you will know what I mean by that, however you can ask me to clarify, but will you be listening to what I say I mean, or will you only listen to the mirror?

------------------------

This thread took an interesting turn I thank the op and all the contributors, cheers.

a reply to: geezlouise
Not at all, i'll go deep as well

We can not prevent anger by eliminating the outside things we think are responsible for it, try for 10.000 years or eternity and still it will not work, anger will always come back and in greater force once there is a new trigger because it is nourished, the mind will always find a trigger since that's the nature of this reality. Nature is always in constant motion & fluctuation and change, it never is static, from galaxys to humans and then subatomic levels. The mind who tries to control the outside world will always end up miserable once the illusion of control is gone, in fact it is because most humans don't typically go beyond the level of the mind that they suffer all kind of emotions and inner turmoil, contradictions and cognitive dissonance. Beyond mind there is a calm soothing morning light, for everyone to see, it doesn't matter how unfair we think life treated us or how angry/sad we feel and won't let go of suffering, it is there to see and seeing it changes everything, even if we only notice a fraction of it. There has yet to be one person who has not changed dramatically once he/she became aware of what is truly concealed within man.

Anger is always experienced inside of ourselves, never outside like all other emotional states. This is positive because then we can do something about it, ultimately it is our responsability for the things we allow to create and release upon others and ourselves. If anger was an experience that occurred outside of our own boundaries/control, then logically it would be much harder to do something about.

By trying to eliminate the objects of our frustration/pain it will only temporarily calm us down(If successful)but each time it happens the toxic habit takes deeper roots within, because humans are creatures of habit. If we plant ugly seeds and nourish them, eventually we'll get an ugly harvest. The opposite is also true by planting positive seeds.

In the end, most of the anger(negative emotions) people living in the none third world countries will experience over the course of their entire existance is not because of someone who raped our children, or killd someone close to us, those situations are not the norm. It's because of the ordinary, seemingly small things that happens most days. E.g. someone calld us stupid or questioned our authority/integrity, someone yelled at us or laughed at us infront of others etc. When we learn to be aware of our daily toxic emotional habits and see what is really going on inside of ourselves, beyond the surface, then it will also change how we react to the real emotional traumas of life(even if they have already occurred and weighs heavily upon us) the skeptics would be surprised if they only knew.

Just to say that that was a great post, really struck a chord as I think I might be in the middle of a serious change in thought patterns and general outlook in life.
And being more forgiving and letting go is a big part of that change.
This is the important stuff, thanks for sharing.


great choice of soundtrack too!

a reply to: CatandtheHatchet

My socks are all accounted for I'm also not needing any butter clarified today.

No seriously, yes there is a chance I am talking to the mirror universe Dr Gar Gar in sense of philosophy. Why people assume I am not listenting, and am not actually stead fast in my beliefs is beyond me

a reply to: Noinden


nvm, no point

a reply to: CatandtheHatchet

How about you just say what you want to say. You clearly want too

a reply to: Noinden

It wasn't relevant to the thread and in the end served no purpose, so I decided I really didn't want to and went to the bother of removing it.

People think differently I'm fine with that, I'm content with my choice.

a reply to: CatandtheHatchet

Well as long as you are happy with it, and felt you were acknowledged