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When Trump Loses

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posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


No-one says you have to. One of the virtues of liberal democracy is that you are free to leave.


You have the authority to make me leave?

I'll just make Circleville Ohio an anarchist society.


If Canada is not anarchic enough for you, try Somalia.


OMG, you are absolutely right. You have just single-handedly invalidated anarchism as a political philosophy. I should have been smart enough to think of Somalia and roads and stuff.
edit on 19-9-2016 by LordSatan because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: LordSatan
a reply to: DJW001


No-one says you have to. One of the virtues of liberal democracy is that you are free to leave.


You have the authority to make me leave?

I'll just make Circleville Ohio an anarchist society.


If Canada is not anarchic enough for you, try Somalia.


OMG, you are absolutely right. You have just single-handedly invalidated anarchism as a political philosophy. I should have been smart enough to think of Somalia and roads and stuff.



History has invalidated anarchism... 2 thing nearly every civilization has faced before it fell were:

A) a civil war/splitting up of the empire.

B) an outside invasion at its weak point.

Without governments we instantly revert to "who ever has the biggest stick, calls the shots" in earnest.


That's when the real authoritarians come out.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Your argument is such that security is only possible when person A hands his authority to person B.

History has not invalidated anarchism, history has invalidated government.
edit on 19-9-2016 by LordSatan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: nobunaga
i am as far from racist as anything.

im voting trump. because im scared of the muslim takeover.


Sic
edit on 19-9-2016 by Whodathunkdatcheese because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan


You have the authority to make me leave?


You can stay if you want, too.


I'll just make Circleville Ohio an anarchist society.


You can do that if you want, but you'll need the consent of your neighbors.


OMG, you are absolutely right. You have just single-handedly invalidated anarchism as a political philosophy. I should have been smart enough to think of Somalia and roads and stuff.


Yes, you should think bout that. It has been said that an anarchist is a monarchist who had the misfortune not to be born a king.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan


Your argument is such that security is only possible when person A hands his authority to person B.


People can work together within an agreed structure, that is not handing over authority, it is cooperation.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: DJW001


People can work together within an agreed structure, that is not handing over authority, it is cooperation


And cooperation (organization) is not a concept exclusive to government.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Thats funny.
I never thought trust and Hillary Clinton would be used in the same context. Im not sure how anyone could ever convince themselves to support someone so corrupt, and so in bed with government, corporations, and foreign governments and interests. She makes vague plans for every problem she tries to sell.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: WilburnRoach

You better Believe this Thread will be Very Popular come November 9th here on ATS . Be Prepared to be OWNED .



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Any and all foreign influence or desires are irrelevant. All that matters is what Americans want and what Americans decide, period.

As for Russia, it is safe to assume it is well within their capability to actually cause a disruption of the election process if that was what they desired; one that would elicit an official statement by the US government & response and not simply outlets refering to anonymous, inside or close sources or unnamed former officials and "experts" who have purportedly confirmed Russian links to the hacking of a non-governmental server or setup, as the Clinton campaign and Foundation claim.

Hillary, and by extension her democratic party, have hung themselves, no help from Putin or Russia was needed. And while on the subject of self-sabotage, Ukraine shelved their own application to join NATO- twice (in 2010 under the opposition backed by Russia and in 2014 under the interim US/EU backed government). Ukraine, on it's own accord, has served themselves up.

And if and when it comes down to it, the US is under no obligation to come to its rescue and any incident of invasion would only serve to bolster US efforts to expand NATO and arm other allies with this real-time, live example of why you should make every effort to side with America.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: LordSatan
a reply to: DJW001


People can work together within an agreed structure, that is not handing over authority, it is cooperation


And cooperation (organization) is not a concept exclusive to government.


I hate to break it to you, but what you call "anarchism" is a form of government.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:31 AM
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a reply to: Ripper777


Any and all foreign influence or desires are irrelevant. All that matters is what Americans want and what Americans decide, period.


But if the public has been successfully influenced, they may not vote in their best interest. In fact, that is what Russia is attempting to do.


As for Russia, it is safe to assume it is well within their capability to actually cause a disruption of the election process if that was what they desired;


It is indeed within their abilities and they feel justified in doing so. For years, Non Government Organizations (NGOs)have been active all across the world, but especially in former Soviet countries, educating the populace in the ways of secular liberal democracy. Russia is correct in believing that this is an attempt to influence internal affairs in abrogation of Westphalian principles. (They are mistaken in thinking these NGOs are agents of foreign government; western governments label their propaganda organs up front: Voice of America, etc.)


one that would elicit an official statement by the US government & response


Not necessarily. Tension is already high between the United States and the Russian Federation due to Putin's overt aggression. Incontrovertible evidence would be required before official action can be taken. The United States guarantees freedoms that would prevent the government from shutting down outlets spreading propaganda, the way Russia has declared NGOs to be "foreign agents" and closed them down.

Bonus points for bringing up Ukraine. Trump would reward Putin for his criminal act.
edit on 20-9-2016 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-9-2016 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: LordSatan
a reply to: DJW001


People can work together within an agreed structure, that is not handing over authority, it is cooperation


And cooperation (organization) is not a concept exclusive to government.


I hate to break it to you, but what you call "anarchism" is a form of government.


No. Government is--specifically--a form of organization in society where authority has been delegated to a few, over the many.

Government is a solution to the question of "who can use violence against whom?"



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan

You are greatly mistaken on the definition of government. Any rules, whether enforced by the individual or a designated group is a form of government.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: LordSatan

You are greatly mistaken on the definition of government. Any rules, whether enforced by the individual or a designated group is a form of government.


Having rules is not a concept mutually exclusive to government. What distinguishes government from other forms of organization, is the manner in which authority is derived and spread out.

You are claiming a circle is a triangle because both utilize lines.

EDIT:

Government is rules applied through obedience, this is what it means to be governed--to be compelled to obey. This is distinct from cooperative forms of organization.
edit on 20-9-2016 by LordSatan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: WilburnRoach

When trump looses the neocons or T partiers will morph into something even more reactionary and violent because they will be even more frustrated. We will see even more "patriots" bombing government buildings.


This has to be the worst election every. Hilary is marginally better than Trump. I don't want to be mean to Trump be he does not play with a full deck.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan

You contradict yourself without knowing it. If I have a rule set, then I will have some form of punishment for breaking the rule. Hence, people are compelled to obey so as not to receive punishment.

You have a very skewed, unresearched view.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: raymundoko


You contradict yourself without knowing it.


Show me where.


If I have a rule set, then I will have some form of punishment for breaking the rule.


Yes, that is government. Cooperative forms of organization do not rely upon punishment to exact obedience (obedience is not a virtue in cooperative societies, as it implies that someone holds authority over someone else). Nor is authority disproportionately applied.

You have authority over yourself, no one else.


Hence, people are compelled to obey so as not to receive punishment.


Congratulations, you know that government as a model for human organization, is inherently coercive in it's nature.


You have a very skewed, unresearched view.


Unresearched?

Have you read the works of Peter Kropotkin? No?
Pierre Joseph Proudhon? No?
Michael Bakunin? No?
Murray Rothbard? No?
Karl Hess? No?
Max Stirner? No?
Frédéric Bastiat? No?
Ludwig Von Mises? No?
F.A. Hayek? No?
Henry Hazlitt? No?
Leo Tolstoy? No?
Llewellyn Rockwell jr? No?
John Locke? No?
Chase Rachels? No?
Lysander Spooner? No?

The Law by Frederic Bastiat

Anatomy of The State by Murray Rothbard

Man, Economy, and State by Murray Rothbard

The Ego and His Own by Max Stirner

The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin

God and The State by Michael Bakunin

Against the State by Lewellyn Rockwell Jr

Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

A Spontaneous Order by Chase Rachels

No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner

Human Action by Ludwig von Mises



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan


No. Government is--specifically--a form of organization in society where authority has been delegated to a few, over the many.


Is direct democracy not a form of government? Primitive communism? What about a system like you find in liberal democracies when the chosen "authorities" can be removed by impeachment or votes of confidence?



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: LordSatan

Have you read Plato? Aristotle? Machiavelli? Hobbes? Rousseau? Mill? Adam Smith? Marx?




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