Who or what is "the devil"? Does the devil exist?

He doesn't exist op only the failings of men do. Some can not admit these failings so blame the adult bogeyman.

originally posted by: Malocchio

Jesus Christ has absolutely nothing to do with the prophecy of the red heifer that Jews believe must be fulfilled before the Temple can physically be rubuilt.

For those who can realize it, Jesus was the firstborn sacrifice without blemish that would rebuild the Spiritual temple. a Physical temple is merely a tomb and anyone who aspires for such a construction is seeking the grave.

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple (physical), and I will raise it again in three days(spiritual)" John 2:19

originally posted by: TheKnightofDoom
He doesn't exist op only the failings of men do. Some can not admit these failings so blame the adult bogeyman.

"Colors do not exist!" proclaimed the blind man

a reply to: cooperton

We are all born without blemish and the pain of the world heaped upon them is the same pain heaped upon us in the past, the answer is simple: Stop doing that, and see that others that do it can as well... damning them is not your job, as we already are damned in getting those blemishes so take time to heal using the path one has been taught or accepted or chosen whether that be any of them or none at all in secular ethics by the society in which we live. The added rules of ones chosen path helps us to become a better representative of it in public that needs no discussion in pubic as an example of it can speak for itself in ones actions and behaviors.

Of course the law of the land will punish in physicality in the mean time while people are being punished by their own minds in corporeality... and if not then one has no conscience to their action against another, in an extreme of other denial in favor of oneself but such is the nature of ego and the desire or greed to have a life unto itself when such is an impossibility in the interconnection of life itself as society... of course one could go live in the woods but then their life no different than an animal still depends on food to survive which is still being dependent on it.

The old saying: No man is an island should be updated to: No life is an island so digging moats is the beam that keeps blinding ones eye to the truth.

What anyone believes is pointless to the actions they do... and the intent behind it. If we pass along the same pain hurt and suffering to others, of course it is going to return to us and this will keep reoccurring generation after generation in a same sh-t different time until someone does what? Ceases being the cause and spread of suffering that one inherited... that is not the actual riches to be sharing in the world but creation itself is.

If you didn't create it then why be the disease upon it? Create something worthy of sharing and then you'll understand what being worthy of life is... we were all born worthy of it but as time goes on death will follow like a shadow and that promise of everlasting life ceases to be, back into the earth means that ever lasting life has not ended it will be tilled back in and the spirit placed where it was fit to be, if it is an unfit place then it can be pulled and placed to where it was suitable... to the best environment for learning and progress.

It's that simple... and that has been my observation in watching how all of this works once subjected to it and slave to it, no different than anyone else. Once one becomes objective to it life the subject itself then one starts seeing it clearly in and of itself for what it is... and we can come to appreciate it and have empathy for all of those struggling needlessly, painfully towards being without blemish yet once again.

But that takes effort and personal responsibility, pointing the finger at oneself in damnation instead of at another... for being cause to keep that hurt pain and suffering going instead of seeking to resolve it first in oneself and then pointing the best one can beyond dogma that draws lines and points fingers to others to cease being the poison and then becoming an example of the cure.

a reply to: cooperton

Jesus, why are you so anxious when you write-speak?

Does it matter whose theology is true? Relax. Relax. Chill.

Life is too full of meaning to let yourself become dissociated by theological/moral/metaphysical matters.

It's true. Focus and live in the now. Happiness is only here when we have purposes in our living. Hence, the only people who "hate this world" are people with no feeling for their fellow creatures - or interest in the mysteries, social, scientific and spiritual, that lie ahead of us.

Just because someone says something i.e. the "physical world is evil", does not at all make that true.

Physical existence, as far as I'm concerned, is freaking awesome.

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: cooperton

Does it matter whose theology is true?

Most Theologies point to the same truth. But yeah I think the truth is important.

Life is too full of meaning to let yourself become dissociated by theological/moral/metaphysical matters.

The whole point of moral and metaphysical examination is to come to an understanding of the meaning of life.

Focus and live in the now.

More rule more problems. The more rules I try to put on myself, such as the one you just mentioned, the more it becomes a neurotic attempt at maintaining a state of mental equilibrium through various tricks such as posture, present-mindedness, focus on your breath, etc. Yet none of this compares to the effortless bliss I had as a child.

Happiness is only here when we have purposes in our living.

What is the purpose of life then? What is worth doing?

a reply to: cooperton

What is the purpose of life? Well, you are given one by parents and you are given one by society and you arrive with gifts and talents so which ones work for you? All that was given taken away or what you have chosen? What about what you already give away freely without question and seem to have little return on the investment? That's your money in the bank if you reinvest it in yourself as it is a wise investment to make since you never seem to run out of it.

Malocchio

Jesus Christ has absolutely nothing to do with the prophecy of the red heifer that Jews believe must be fulfilled before the Temple can physically be rubuilt.

Judaism and its third Temple prophecies don't even consider the words of Jesus as relevant to their beliefs. At all.

As far as the Church being the Third Temple take a look at Roman Catholic history and tell me Christ condoned the Inquisition and the Crusades and tell me that's what he expected when he said that.

Catholicism produced the Protestants and then splintered into 30,000 factions.

I think your beliefs are different than reality.

But as long as you don't hurt anything that is fine.

Cooperton:

For those who can realize it, Jesus was the firstborn sacrifice without blemish that would rebuild the Spiritual temple. a Physical temple is merely a tomb and anyone who aspires for such a construction is



Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple (physical), and I will raise it again in three days(spiritual)" John 2:19


Me:

Thats Catholic theology not what Jesus actually taught. He never said that his death was atonement for sin and the virgin birth and ressurection are obviously mythological and not history as both are impossible although if you interpret it allegorically it's about you being born again (virgin birth) and having a clean slate at baptism, that's what forgives sin in the Gospels. Ressurection is when you achieve a state of holiness that is on earth as in heaven.

You are doing the Pauline roll the dice theology that Christ changed the plan after his ascension to faith in the cross as salvation and Christ didn't teach that.

He taught how to live, to be a Temple that you are the Temple and have a Holy of Holies that is the eye that is clean.

a reply to: cooperton

More rule more problems. The more rules I try to put on myself, such as the one you just mentioned, the more it becomes a neurotic attempt at maintaining a state of mental equilibrium through various tricks such as posture, present-mindedness, focus on your breath, etc. Yet none of this compares to the effortless bliss I had as a child.

Really? Isn't this self-explanation itself a problem?

Recommending ways of knowing is inevitable - and its wise to know that binding ourselves to the present moment is where pleasure is.

Yet, it's always just a "marker". You need merely know this, but not let it become "neurotic". That is, contrary to your gloomy-prognosis, it is perfectly feasible to accept this notion, promote this notion, and not feel, as you assert, a "neurosis".

Nope, mindfulness is fundamentally compassionate-to-self. If you're hard on yourself, you propagate a negative and critical attitude to your own self-experience; whereas if you cultivate a position of self-compassion, you accept the idea of "live in the now" as a coherent representation of what helps Human beings experience well being.

What is the purpose of life then? What is worth doing?

That's for you to understand.

The danger of mysticism is that it can dissociate you from contributing to the Human effort. It can make you feel like its all to no purpose - as if there weren't relative and absolute goals waiting to be discovered by meeting new people and knowing new things.

We ORIENT one another by how we talk i.e. the way and manner we relate to certain "objectives". Do not be so convinced, then, that your attitude is anything more than a construction and internalization of object-relations internalized in conversations with others - either in person or on paper (yes, reading produces a similar, if diluted effect of self-Other meaning transfer).

That's my position anyways. All these doomsdayish "its the end of the world" rhetoric isn't paying attention to what is here, what can be done, and what kind of discovery lies ahead.

originally posted by: Malocchio
Malocchio

Jesus Christ has absolutely nothing to do with the prophecy of the red heifer that Jews believe must be fulfilled before the Temple can physically be rubuilt.

Besides being the first-born sacrifice of God without blemish. But no, He is/was not literally a red heifer.

Judaism and its third Temple prophecies don't even consider the words of Jesus as relevant to their beliefs. At all.

I am aware of that. From my perspective, the boat came and they are waiting for another.

As far as the Church being the Third Temple take a look at Roman Catholic history and tell me Christ condoned the Inquisition and the Crusades and tell me that's what he expected when he said that.

The inquisition and the crusades are the antithesis to Christian philosophy.

I think your beliefs are different than reality.
But as long as you don't hurt anything that is fine.

Humility, unconditional loving kindness, selflessness, and non-violence.

He never said that his death was atonement for sin

This goes back to Judaism. He was the firstborn Son of God without blemish that would be sacrificed for the sins of humankind. Prior to this, the Jews would sacrifice firstborn animals without blemish to atone for sins, but this was only temporary - Jesus's sacrifice is permanent.

and the virgin birth and ressurection are obviously mythological and not history

Adam knowing his wife brought about the fall of human, and the resurrection of this fall would be atoned by a man born to a woman (mary) conceiving without knowing a husband. Sexual enmity is a great mystery, but I won't diverge off topic.

as both are impossible

Do you believe in God?

although if you interpret it allegorically it's about you being born again (virgin birth) and having a clean slate at baptism, that's what forgives sin in the Gospels. Ressurection is when you achieve a state of holiness that is on earth as in heaven.

The Truth manifests both literally and symbolically. Although prophecy is often solely symbolic, such as the red heifer.

You are doing the Pauline roll the dice theology that Christ changed the plan after his ascension to faith in the cross as salvation and Christ didn't teach that.

I honestly didn't even know about the red heifer prophecy until I read your original post. I just thought it was an exact description of the sacrifice of Jesus, besides the fact he is not literally a red heifer. I didn't mean for it to get this heated.

He taught how to live, to be a Temple that you are the Temple and have a Holy of Holies that is the eye that is clean.

Yeah great teachings. More and more depth each time I read it.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: cooperton

What is the purpose of life? Well, you are given one by parents and you are given one by society and you arrive with gifts and talents so which ones work for you? All that was given taken away or what you have chosen? What about what you already give away freely without question and seem to have little return on the investment? That's your money in the bank if you reinvest it in yourself as it is a wise investment to make since you never seem to run out of it.

The way of my parents and society leads to death, I know a way that leads to Life.

a reply to: cooperton

If you read Hebrew, all this religious squabbling will mean nothing.

God tells CaYiN (the spirit of QaNaH - to acquire i.e. egotism) if you T'MeShOL "overcome". This word contains the same two root letters of MoShIaCh - "savior". The addition of a Cheth - 8 - is interpreted as the "intelligence" incarnating the capacity to overcome.

So don't expect an individual or even think of an individual. The change is in you, in your awareness of the power of your own brain-mind to "overcome" the negativity i.e. entropy, within you.

That's all it is. You could put Griffin (lol, lord) from mcdonalds as your symbol; what matters is what the conscious mind recognizes about its capacities - and its fundamental relation to the processes of joy, care and awe.

a reply to: Malocchio

The new testament is supposed to be fulfilling the old one after the oops of martyring him. So the new testament is just begging the question of the old.

I am a secularist and I think all the many varied belief systems have their own unique validity, people carrying all of these many varied beliefs into public is the very reason the is a law of ethics to try to achieve balance in all of society beyond playing favorites to any of them in order that we can do one thing... live together and work together no matter what super hero you pick, the reason why the flying spaghetti monster does make any appearances is because it's too busy fighting hunger.

I'm still undecided on the devil and god, I think its more likely there is just one pervasive force underlying everything. And as we live in duality this force has two sides - good and evil/dark and light. It's very jedi like and cool to think about. Whether this force comes from a source again I am unsure. The source would have to be the equilibrium between the two sides or something that generates everything into existence in a non-judgmental non-aligned fashion. Maybe this is why god doesn't answer prayers but the universe does sometimes - if you're aligned or in tune with it.

I think it's perfectly healthy to embrace your dark side as long as you're not harming anyone I think you need to strike a balance between the two. Too much good/light and you are tortured by evil/darkness, too much evil/darkness and you are cut off from good/light.

The soul is a tough one, I think a better term might be conscious entity. As a conscious entity you cannot be destroyed but your energy can be sapped. I've had my energy sapped a few times - those times when you feel like you've lost your soul or felt a strong energy drain in an instant. But it always comes back with time. I don't believe you can sell your soul or lose it as that would mean losing your self, losing your conscious awareness, losing you as a being.

Yeah look in the mirror deny it's you and try to see only god or if vice versa get medication and sedation and sedition and perdition and keep on wishing while some dude goes fishing and laughing all the way to the bank dying in toilet tanks and flush the money dont launder it wait wait wait yes stand in line then deliver why you nearly downed in that river of life that never ends duck duck go youre around the bend see that fin oh no better swim or paddle like a dog leap like a frog and pop goes the daisy is my rhyme effective or am I just being lazy chain on the daisy chain and no freedom ringing a bell for dinner until time becomes someone elses winner but if your a spectre youre a vector to call a spook a mook to do a dook and boo scare little children because they have seen it all before

Yes at some point life becomes a bore so time to take of the mask and play the opposite side they are no different than you the difference you have agreed on belief they havent any god devil same stupid thing damned coming and going until you realize this it is not the song that never ends it is the life that never ends and the lead weight is always around their necks trying to control everything

Bye bye

a reply to: Malocchio

That was powerful stuff man

Who Is Satan the Devil? Is He Real?:

The Bible’s Viewpoint
Who Is Satan? Is He Real?

SOME modern scholars say that Satan is not a real person. They claim that he was merely created in the imagination of men. This controversy is nothing new. “The Devil’s deepest wile,” wrote 19th-century poet Charles-Pierre Baudelaire, “is to persuade us that he does not exist.”

Is Satan a real person? If so, where did he come from? Is he the unseen power behind the problems plaguing our world? How can you avoid his evil influence?

What the Bible Says

The Bible describes Satan as a real person who exists in the invisible spirit realm. (Job 1:6) It tells us about his vicious and ruthless qualities as well as his evil actions. (Job 1:13-19; 2:7, 8; 2 Timothy 2:26) It even records conversations that Satan had with God and with Jesus.—Job 1:7-12; Matthew 4:1-11.

Where did such an evil being come from? Long before man existed, God created his “firstborn” Son, who eventually came to be known as Jesus. (Colossians 1:15) In time, other “sons of God,” called angels, were created. (Job 38:4-7) All were perfect and righteous. However, one of those angels would become Satan.

Satan was not his given name at the time of his creation. It is a descriptive name, which means “Adversary; Enemy; Accuser.” He came to be called Satan because he chose a life course in opposition to God.

Feelings of pride and rivalry toward God grew within this spirit creature. He wanted others to worship him. When God’s firstborn Son, Jesus, was on the earth, Satan even attempted to get Jesus to “do an act of worship” to him.—Matthew 4:9.

Satan “did not stand fast in the truth.” (John 8:44) He implied that God was a liar, when, in fact, he was the liar. He told Eve that she could be like God, whereas he wanted to be like God. And through his deceitful ways, he achieved his selfish desire. To Eve, he made himself higher than God. By obeying Satan, Eve accepted Satan as her god.—Genesis 3:1-7.

By fomenting rebellion, this once trusted angel made himself Satan—an adversary and enemy of God and man. The designation “Devil,” which means “Slanderer,” was also added to this wicked one’s description. This leader of sin eventually influenced other angels to disobey God and join his rebellion. (Genesis 6:1, 2; 1 Peter 3:19, 20) These angels did not make mankind’s situation better. Because of their imitating Satan’s selfish ways, “the earth became filled with violence.”—Genesis 6:11; Matthew 12:24.
How Powerful Is Satan’s Influence?

A criminal may wipe his fingerprints from the crime scene in an attempt to leave no trace of his identity. However, when the police arrive, they realize that if a crime has been committed, there must be a criminal. Satan, the original “manslayer,” tries to leave no trace of his identity. (John 8:44; Hebrews 2:14) When speaking with Eve, Satan hid his identity behind a serpent. He is still trying to hide today. He “has blinded the minds of the unbelievers” so as to conceal the extent of his powerful influence.—2 Corinthians 4:4.

However, Jesus identified Satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in. He called him “the ruler of this world.” (John 12:31; 16:11) “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one,” wrote the apostle John. (1 John 5:19) Satan effectively uses “the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life” in “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (1 John 2:16; Revelation 12:9) He is the one whom mankind in general obeys.

As was the case with Eve, those obeying Satan, in effect, make him their god. Hence, Satan is “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) The effects of his rule include hypocrisy and lies; war, torture and destruction; crime, greed and corruption.

a reply to: whereislogic

Gen: 1-27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Bible says woman was created on the 6th day, before God took his rest

Then later Adam names the animals Gen 2-18

Then God creates Adams wife Gen 2-25

So prior to God creating Adams wife, he had already created a woman?

Gen 3-14"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."


What seed did eve and the serpent share for God to be able to put enmity between?

It clearly says that the serpent had a seed.

Gen: 3-22"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"

So the serpent did not lie to eve

Is this a story of how man got his earthly body?

Is this a story of more than one woman in the garden of Eden?

If so, did the woman and eve both have different seeds

Or did the serpent and eve and eve and Adam have different seeds?

Or did Adam and the woman and Adam and Eve have two different seeds?

Where do both seeds come from?

Is this a story of the serpent giving knowledge to man, but in exchange for a spiritual death, forcing him to walk the earth instead of love in the garden of Eden for eternity?

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: whereislogic

So prior to God creating Adams wife, he had already created a woman?

The Image of God was male and female united. the name "Man" refers to such a Being:

"a male and a female He hath prepared them, and He blesseth them, and calleth their name Man, in the day of their being prepared." Genesis 5:2

When the woman at the well asks Jesus where to find eternal life He simply says to call her husband (John 4:14-16)... but she goes on to say that none of her husbands were actually her true husband. I have many opinions regarding these implications but I think it's better if you make your own conclusions.

What seed did eve and the serpent share for God to be able to put enmity between

It clearly says that the serpent had a seed.

The Parable of the Tares and the Wheat (Link) explains that the devil inserted his seed into Creation along with the Seed of the Most High. At the end of the age, the Tares will be taken away so "the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:43)

You also have this:

"And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,
and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen...
The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name." (Genesis 6:1,2,4)

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Who or what is "the devil"? Does the devil exist?

She was on a national debate just recently.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Wouldn't it be to convince the world that God is the Devil and the Devil is God. Then have people worship the Devil thinking its God?

The child molesting infested vatican could certainly fall under this deception.