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Who or what is "the devil"? Does the devil exist?

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posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

That is a very good point, other than an aluminum wedge that may be wrongly dated, some suspicious fossil's and a few other oopart's though I can not direct you to them so it is thought that at the moment we the general public can not prove.

However it may have more credence than I give it credit for and like yourself I too would dearly love to see empirical evidence of this.

Sadly if you look up Ahnenerb you are more likely to be directed to site's which hero worship the third reich or site's that are more interested in the black magic and pagan ceremony's of the SS.

Still there are some interesting artifact's that though they prove nothing are still enigmatic enough to make us think.
This is not a perfect site and there are some artifact's you will recognise as debunked but I still find the Waffle rock interesting (Even though crystallization may be the answer as posted by someone else when I queried it on another thread as it look's like a fossilized metal grill work - the portion on the photo is all that is left as apparently the rest of it was even more convincing but they destroyed it and saved only that part) and a few of the other's artifact's.
rabbithole2.com...

Now you know also about Dubious artifact's that many believer's such as myself once did believe such as the COSO GEODE which was proven to be a 1920's champion spark plug.

That Egyptian glider when reconstructed and a tail wing added apparently fly's very well, it may be simply a stylized bird that was a gift and maybe even came from ancient China given as a gift to the pharaoh but we shall probably never know.

Even though there are two competing industry's (non profit for the most part) that have grown out of OOPART's and those being the believer's (sometime's hoodwinked and too willing to believe like I was) and the Sceptic's (whom can never be convinced unless it is signed, sealed and authorized by there president, there mother and there scientific idol) they remain fascinating artifact's.
This one is a neither there nore here one but still worth reading about though many believe it to be either fake or just a natural object misidentified as a map.
www.hiddenmysteries.org...
Then suspiciously human alien's whom supposedly crash landed in China thousand's of years ago becoming stranded and apparently interbreeding with human's (unlikely unless they originally came from here anyway and shared our genetic's).
www.crystalinks.com...




posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

demonic forces do exist



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: tony9802

Yes they do and so too do Angelic one's, reason state's though that the one's that play spiritual hijink's and horrible monster are the small fry, look to your politician's and leader's, look to your society and the failing human empathy of the early 21st century a time the Hindu's call Kali Yuga in which they believe evil rule's the world and human immorality, greed and lack of empathy grow.

I myself as I stated earlier believe in Christ so I also know if he drove out demon's then they do exist.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Does the devil exist? I keep telling you people the elite believe in
God and that they're just at war with him. And if they believe in
God they most certainly believe in the devil. They are the wicked.
Why do you think wicked people do so well in this world?

Here's the proof.



Believe what you want.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

Blaming the elite of the world for all it's ills is an easy get out in my opinion
So is blaming God or Satan

When refering to the Illuminati ... which group do you mean as there are many
No use posting a hours long vid and wasting many peoples time

Come on name the group you refer to show the proof

Not all who you label elite are ill intentioned

No matter whether you are elite or the poorest of Humanity ... it is what is in your heart that counts



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet

You yourself know there are two modern illuminate, the old illuminati from Baveria were potentially actually well intentioned and simply saw themselves as enlightened academic's whom wanted social progression and even justice.

One modern illuminate believe this also though they are merely a club these day's and the other believe that GOATU the grand architect of the UNIVERSE the builder whom rejected CHRIST is actually Lucifer whom they worship and want to be like, they may not be totally evil but they are indeed totally misguided and unenlightened to believe that crap but hey it is part of there secret oath in there secret drinking den's is'nt it, what a load of old cobbler's, lucifer has nothing to do with Christ even if some here argue the translation error explanation which they can not prove.

I saw Satan cast out of heaven like Lightning (lucifer), Jesus is the great light (truth the two edged sword) that shines unto the people living in darkness, Lucifer/Satan is the darkness that seek's to take them away from the light and there Illuminate is a false synagogue.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
I myself as I stated earlier believe in Christ so I also know if he drove out demon's then they do exist.

I will answer your other response once I look into it further however what you just wrote caught my eye.

Do you think that exorcism should be used as a healing practice today.
Or is the connection between healing and exorcising demons something I've misunderstood?



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Do you think that exorcism should be used as a healing practice today.
Or is the connection between healing and exorcising demons something I've misunderstood?


demons are like psychological aberrations. When your thinking and your behavior deviates from Divine Ordinance, your psyche becomes susceptible to possessing strange and socially awkward behaviors and alienates you from a pure psychology.

This is the parable of the strong man being tied up so that robbers can come in and rule the home - by choosing iniquity and non-Good behavior, you tie up the latent power of the Most-High within you and open the door for unclean psychology (spirits). Jesus was able to heal people of these demons instantaneously because he effectively showed them how to untie the strong man by exposing their iniquities. "sin" simply means to miss the mark, he cleansed them of their sins, or aberrant psychology, and they were healed instantly. Even Jesus in all his purity did not heal the unbeliever, that is, those who were too bull-headed to repent from their aberrant behavior (sin). In this comes great understanding of the human dilemma and our relation with God.

I made a hypothesis a while ago that viruses are the physical substrate for demons - both viruses and demons are invisible to the naked eye and cause havoc on the human system: Are Viruses demons?
edit on 17-9-2016 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: cooperton
Hmmm so if Even Jesus in all his purity could not heal the unbeliever, does that mean that Jesus' healing has similarities to the placebo effect?

I assumed that was the case with faith healing however I wasn't aware that Jesus could support my claim.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Remember that Christ called Lazarus back from the grave so
it can't all be considered placebo effect.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet




Blaming the elite of the world


History blames them, I merely point that out.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: cooperton
Hmmm so if Even Jesus in all his purity could not heal the unbeliever, does that mean that Jesus' healing has similarities to the placebo effect?


I think the placebo effect is the tip of the iceberg that demonstrates the potential of human belief. With God anything is possible, but if you look at all the apostles' accounts of Jesus's healings, it always involves the faith of the people being healed.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Its a lumped up concept.

Satan, Saturn

Lucifer, the light bringer

Devil, generic term for demon

There is no such ONE thing.

Lucifer is not evil, Everyone wants eightenment.

Saturn is not evil, its just a pagan God with richer history. A more human god emotionally.

The devil, demons, are bad I guess. If you believe that. Its a primordial force not subject to gummy bears and unicorns.

Demons have been used for good, think solomon. Ancient ocult practices invoked various demons for specific things, like praying to this or that patron saint of things.

We are the demons and angels. Our spirit, the ocean of spirits we are host to.

Its a consciousness and a mindset. Once you have invoked such the benefits and cost to follow.

The "possesion" people say happens is BS. They just lose their freaking minds.

We all invoke things, are an invocation of things. We are hosts. The real us is within the deep mind.

The devil, is you....

God is.......



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Remember that Christ called Lazarus back from the grave so
it can't all be considered placebo effect.


Which happens shortly after Martha says she believes He is the resurrection. Jesus called those who do the will of the Father Brothers/Sisters, and he also said we can do as He did, and even greater works. As Sons to a Father, we are learning and developing to the point where we can grow into the Father's Kingdom. Learning through mistakes, and coming to know why evil is evil and good is good.

A seed first germinates in darkness before it ascends to the light

Magic without God is unstable and leads to destruction, yet phenomenal things will happen with someone who walks with God and has a solid foundation in His first Risen Son.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: cooperton
Fair enough, I'm not interested in an argument as both our sides are pretty clear however I do appreciate the response.

You've managed to teach an atheist something about religion. Not an easy task in this neck of the woods.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

Fair enough my friend

The only real proof we have of the Illuminati's existence is that of the correspondence seized from The Bavarian Illuminati ... as such on studying these documents it is clear they held Jesus in great esteem

What you say about certain elite one's is true ... they are working in opposition to "God" as they are working toward an anti Human agenda ... some call themselves Illuminati but they are frauds


edit on 17-9-2016 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 11:44 AM
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The Satan of the Jews is a messenger of God who needs approval for anything he does.

So in essence, God is, by having control of, the Satan.

Christianity under Rome used the obscure OT character mentioned about 5 times in the entire book to make people afraid and the Jews the S.O.S. for not converting to Christianity.

His NT role is still one of appointment by God and not a rebellious angel, he even lends a hand in testing Jesus to see if he would sin.

So does Satan also tempt God the Father as he did the so called Son of God who Christianity believes is God even though the New Testament doesn't say that he is actually God. It actually says he is not God.

''Only God is good.''

Was not a third person statement but one of denial of goodness. Jesus says he is not good because only God is good, therefore the New Testament says Jesus is not God.

The devil is organized religions most useful myth as people still believe in the boogeyman as they did as kids, only now it is Satan.

People need a scapegoat, the devil made me do it, the devils in the details, Satan is a concept describing the desire to do things people say are bad like drugs.

But Satan isn't real and each man or woman does what desire tells them it wants to do. Emotions and other feelings cause people to do evil not some boogeyman rebel angel.

Otherwise that makes God responsible for evil and us innocent. If God didn't ''make'' Satan we supposedly wouldn't have evil so who is responsible for evil?

Whoever made Satan (hypothetically).



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
We are the demons and angels. Our spirit, the ocean of spirits we are host to.

Its a consciousness and a mindset. Once you have invoked such the benefits and cost to follow.

We all invoke things, are an invocation of things. We are hosts. The real us is within the deep mind.

The devil, is you....

God is.......

Well Jesus said that everyone is born into sin.

So ATS members, here is proof that we are all little nasty daemons ready to have a go at each other. Sounds like a normal day on ATS.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet




What you say about certain elite one's is true ... they are working in opposition to "God" as they are working toward an anti Human agenda ... some call themselves Illuminati but they are frauds


I agree but would go so far as to say the agenda has it's origins in their
hate for God and everything that reminds them of him. And as true
to the nature of any psychotic that even includes the very planet they
call home and the species that supports their own existence. They
despise God and all his creation. And they could use a whack on the
back of the neck with a BFS.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: LABTECH767
I myself as I stated earlier believe in Christ so I also know if he drove out demon's then they do exist.

I will answer your other response once I look into it further however what you just wrote caught my eye.

Do you think that exorcism should be used as a healing practice today.
Or is the connection between healing and exorcising demons something I've misunderstood?


Ah now that is a contentious point and I am sure you know of allegations of a schizophrenia suffering young woman whom died during an exorcism ritual.

My belief is that if normal medicine fail's then what harm can it do, I do happen to believe that possession though is a very real phenomena and that the intercession of more powerful being's or spirit's, angels of you like though not always can cure this particular malady however how do you tell the difference between a neurological problem and a spiritual one as this is not by any mean's easy.

Faith, a person's own belief can be an extremely powerful thing as well and of course then you have the whole argument about placebo affect and psychosomatic illness and cure.

My take on it is this, Possession is a very real phenomena but not one that is scientifically proven within the criteria of Atheist science, there are however many doctor's and scientist's whom do practice there profession's and also believe in God from various religious point's of view so it has to be pointed out that regardless of the balance of numbers Atheist science and medicin is not the general rule though in today's world from a western perspective it does seem to be the most Common view point and a prevailing VIEW.

I do therefore Believe that Exorcism can sometime's work, even in cases of purely psychological imbalance as there is the whole "I believe I am cured" placebo affect as well as the potential of real possessing entity's coming up against other stronger or more determined entity's whom are intent upon driving them out of the being they are feeding on.

Proving it though, well while you can measure affect's upon the victim there is to my knowledge no reliable technology to provide any form of analysis of the harmful entity's themselves and any evidence of that kind remain's at an extreme minimum and perhaps that is the way these being's want it to remain, think about all the mental illness on the world and the perfect camouflage it provide's for a real possessing entity or demon.

It is easy to dismiss it as just so much hocus pocus and I wish it was but have reason to believe these entity's are real, that there may be many type's ranging from Fragment's of entity's to actual malign entity's, possession is of course only one tactic and perhaps the most harmful.

Negative vortex vampire's are said to cause harm and feed off of negative energy, literally squeezing there victim's by causing strife, stress and misfortune to befall them in a serial continuity in there live's, these are most associated by most christian exorcist's with generational curses or lingering demonic presence intent upon harming family's using a so called generational curse as a justification which the christian exorcist's point out is null and void by the blood paid by the Christ and no contract's (demonic curses etc) or covenant's may bind the soul's these entity's are attacking.

Essentially Exorcism can take many form's from a replacement spirit that drives the first one out and can in the long run be far worse (Pagan excorcism's are one of these Generational curses etc) to actual angelic or divine intervention through faith in which the combined (gestalt) energy of the faithfull drive's the demon out.

Gestalt both malign and benign are entity's that are made up of many spirit's, MALIGN once they merge the merged mind can litterally consume the lesser (individual) spirit's within it. BENIGN they remain individual but bound by there common faith in GOD/JESUS and there unity make's them stronger within this faith, perhaps far stronger than the Demonic gestalt which hungers for new soul's and eventually just become's a malign entity with no true identity of it's own.



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