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Who or what is "the devil"? Does the devil exist?

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posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 01:02 PM
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...even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" - Jude 1:9

The devil and the rulers all fall under the same law that Jesus gave - love your adversaries.

In this New Covenant Jesus left us with an open door (Revelation 3:8) to rise above our self-manifested hell and subservience to sin/iniquity (Satan). When you go to leave through the door, Satan opens up his bag of tricks and temptations - so be wise like a serpent and as gentle as a dove and you will remain innocent and thereon ascend into Christhood.




posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

Probably the best and most enlightened reply.



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

"The creator was created, the destroyer was destroyed, and the preserver was preserved."
~Meher Baba, from the book "God Speaks"



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

I have to appologize for my tone but it is good to see someone with intellect that has a fair and open mind to the possibility of a previous period of human development.
There is no reason such a race would bother except that if you accept the theory of predator civilization's and of course my musing took into account the potential of a non corporeal or rather dimensional state of being and the potential for a civilization to have evolved at that level of existence which may have originated here ( in this corporeal dimensional state of being ), not provable I know but potential and of course such a civilization may have it's own reason's for keeping the Kid's at a certain level and keeping them in the play pen so to speak.

The Idea of predator civilization's is one that is based on the potential of species to evolve and predate or actively wipe out any other civilization's they encounter for a multitude of reason's such as fear that these embryonic civilization's could come to pose a potential threat to themselves as after all they are predatory or to claim there resources (little or no sign of such activity on the earth so that can be more or less excluded), of course then there is the other fact that the whole universe may be so young that it simply has not had time enough to spawn enough intelligent life for such civilization's to have become common enough to be encountered in most places across the cosmos but they still may exist, broadcasting data to them therefore could be a lethal and stupid action akin to a lemming running off the cliff's of Greenland into the sea.

As for the universe itself I believe it may very well be infinite, oh perhaps each time space continuum has a potential limit but there may be a virtually infinite number of such time space continuum and so in reality our sentience when looked at from that perspective is not even notable and there may be being's so vastly beyond our comprehension that we would not even be of interest to them and would in fact be regarded as less then insect's.

As for the big bang I have elsewhere posted my belief that it was actually a big (gravitational) suck not a bang and our universal bubble (time space continuum) may exist inside a point smaller than a sub atomic particle inside the very centre of a black whole (given that the mass is all around it and therefore the gravity must have pulled outward on that infinitesimally small point in all directions probably forming an internal event horizon around it and inverting the trapped time space continuum in that location so forming a rupture and a white hole as a consequence - time in this daugher continuum would be moving relatively faster than the parent continuum so when quantum evaporation finally completed the internal TSC would have succumbed to a mixture of entropy and spaghetification as it was drawn outward toward the internal event horizon of it's parent black hole - distant star's and object's seeming to accelerate not decelerate and a asymetric distribution of mass and energy in the universe probably due to the fact that it's parent black hole was spinning incredibly fast during it's formation and the exact point of it's centre was therefore less than certain cue an eliptical flattened sphere for a time space continuum) that itself exists in an exterior time space continuum that itself may exist inside a black hole etc.

edit on 16-9-2016 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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During times when it was perceived that God failed to help the common people ... like the Black Death
And tyranical rule of both state and church ...
Satan became more popular as a figure to turn to

Thing is ...true Satanist do not believe in Satan but are oppossed to state and church control by tyrany

God and Satan are metaphors for the Human condition as such



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 03:19 PM
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Depends on which religous version of the Devil.

In the book of Job which is B.C, God pretty much allows Satan to do whatever he wants with little to no consequence at all from God. Imo, Satan might of been something like a vanguard or avatar of sorts originally rather then being a villain.

I even believe that Satan might of been the hebrew personification of lightning and thunder based or inspired by older myths.

Christianity an Islam however...well we know where this coukd go. All the way from blaming events or disasters that occur to propaganda.
edit on 16-9-2016 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
...it is good to see someone with intellect that has a fair and open mind to the possibility of a previous period of human development.


I've always wondered about the possibility of advanced culture predating recorded history.
10,500 BC always seems to be referred to across many cultures and at the very least we seem to accept we sorted out farming around that time. You could claim that's when something happened and their advance culture was set back.

The only problem is that most evidence points to this not being the case. If there was a period of human development we are not aware of, then why does something as simple as clothing that we can track not show that?

Was there a time that we were the Jetsons wearing Flintstones clothes?

Everything seems to show a painfully slow evolution of culture and technology until the industrial revolution sped it up exponentially. If we used our current rate of advancement and backtracked you could probably argue that humanity is less than 100 years old.



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: AnkhMorpork

...if you believe in love its because of loneliness, and if you believe in peace its because of war, and if you believe in God its because of the devil...

thats the secret



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet

Whats your take on scientific fields like systems biology, epigenetics, origin of life studies, cognitive neuroscience, traumatology, prenatal & perinatal psychology, interpersonal neurobiology, etc?

Ultimately, the brain is plastic - and developmental processes are fundamentally ecological, dynamic and fundamentally based in feelings of loyalty to those whom enliven our brain-mind into greater complexity. The mind is an ecology of feeling relations, with thought "articulating" or constraining a particular knowledge into physical reality.

Libertarianism - or a sort of social libertarianism, strikes me as the safest and least invasive (stress-inducing) form of social-structuring, and I say this primarily as a psychologist-neuroscientist, as someone who understands the way and manner the brain-mind self-organizes, and how, if we want to promote consciousness, the embodied agent needs to be mindful of what is going in their bodies during communicative processes with Others (i.e. to be conscious of how they affect the Other).

All this sound as good to you as it does to me?



posted on Sep, 16 2016 @ 05:31 PM
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Hmph, interesting!

No one came on ATS has come flying in in defense of the devil's persistent existence..

Smart people.

That allows us then to turn to the dynamics of systemic evil and proceed to bind the devil among us and within us further shrinking it's grip and hold on the world.

While maybe hoping that what is bound on earth is bound in heaven also.

In the context of extraterrestrial civilizations, I see it then like a type of joke that arises at the expense of all ignorance, maybe even not simply at the expense of humanity, and so those blood sucking PTB might want to stop and think about what master they serve.

Maybe it's a Scoobie Doo situation where people are always trying to scare us for no reason just to make lots of money..?



This little thesis then makes of the devil not the last man standing but the first to fall.

Wait, did you hear the sound of the beast wrapped in chains thrashing around in the abyss, and would we even wish to bend out ear in that direction where there's so much more and better things to think about and focus on?

This leaves only the devil of mental illness, insecurity and ignorance, and like I said before, he's pathetic, even though it makes people do bad things.

There's a devil we can take responsibility for while laughing at the devil without if he hasn't already vanished in a gale of laughter from here to kingdom come.

You won't find me trying to prop up scaffolding around him just to keep him alive. lol

Courage then is what we really need.

To hell with the devil. and then to hell with hell itself.

Which still leaves us in a predicament when it comes to finding an authentic model of leadership to avoid corruption and evil, unless we might be willing to take another look at that itinerant Jewish rabbi and what he was all about and up to.

Might the age old problem of human evil have been resolved?

I think so. If I'm right, "binding the strong man" and taking anything and everything of value leaving nothing, holds in reserve our ability to retain our own sense of humor and charm, even in the face of the worst evil. And that's a real marvel, in it's efficacy, and it's strength and power by the power of reason and logic and love.

edit on 16-9-2016 by AnkhMorpork because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 02:51 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Well I have just woke and decided to have a nose on the forum, Good point about the evidence but there is the concept of the knowledge filter, now the author that came up with that little gem got lambasted for it as you would expect but it remain's a valid point.

Certain inconvenient evidence is lost or get's misplaced, oh perhaps not a jetson's in flintsone cloth's (I like that) but there have been cases of evidence of modern human or more advanced supposed primitive human in the past.

There was one case in which a site near a lake in mexico turned up lot's of very interesting figurines, the woman in charge found herself unable to get a job after she published the dating evidence because these finds if proven pushed back modern man to at least 500.000 years so twice as old as modern man is currently believed to be and this was when modern man was thought to be less than 100.000 years old, of course even more daming for the accepted view of human history was the fact they were found in Mexico so in the america's.
The lady in question, Dr Virginia Steen-McIntyre a former geologist whom worked at the time for the US geological survey.
grahamhancock.com...,183862,183862
www.s8int.com...
members.iimetro.com.au...
Now this was a genuine case in which a woman's honesty got her career railroaded by the professional archaeological community or rather by certain interests within it.
There are of course many other's.

Now you have heard of the Klerksdorp sphere's, these little artifact's have been a mystery for decade's but of course eventually the prevailing VIEW came to be that they were natural formation's.
www.forbiddenhistory.info...
What makes them interesting to me though is that at about 2.25 billion years ago there is a current theory that the earth entered a period known as the Snow Ball Earth Theory.
This may have been down to a solar minimum a period when the sun was very cool and it's thermal output was much lower than today.
channel.nationalgeographic.com...
The theory is still evolving and ranged from being a period of super ice age's that lasted from about 2.25 to about 750 million years making it's end about only 100 million years before the now debunked Cambrian explosion, I say debunked because there have been far more ancient multi cellular fossil's found that prove multi cellular life did not begin in the cambrien explosion, oh the Cambrian explosion remain's valid as a point from which all life today may be evolved from single celled organism's but it is no longer the sole origin of multi cellular life as given those older fossils there may have been entire ecosystems with varied multi cellular species long before that rebirthing of life after the snow ball earth ended so debunked may too strong a word.

Then of course much more recently we have little artifact's like these.

Now it is easy to think maybe cold war relic's from a forgotten soviet development and research centre and of course wacky alien's theory's also exist but it is just as possible they are industrial waste from long ago, 300.000 or more years ago.

Now there are even documentary about how long it would take for nature to reclaim our world and erase all traces of us, even plastic biodegrades eventually but it would not require us to simply vanish, we could survive in very limited numbers and all our civilization would then simply go back to nature anyway, if our race then re-emerged our descendant's would make use of the few item's they could find recycling them for other purpose and so such find's would become more and more rare as the new human population of hunter gather's and early cultures valued and used them until they could no longer be found.

Now a guy is working his digger laying cable, he dig's through some techno crap artifacts, does he call the archeaologists because some guy buried his car or there is an unmarked cable that is obvious out of use, of course not he just get's on with the job and if any of that crap comes out it is junked or simply tipped back in when he is filling the hole, now this is just a scenario but who know's how many time's something like this may have happened.

My take on the whole devil thing though is that while I personally do believe in evil entity's, energy fragment's or even fallen angel's take your pick, there is far worse in the human heart and men have and do exist that would make the proverbial devil look like a nice guy by comparison, fred west, gacie and other seriel killer's, hitler and other twisted leaders.
edit on 17-9-2016 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2016 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 02:59 AM
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originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Which still leaves us in a predicament when it comes to finding an authentic model of leadership to avoid corruption and evil

Easy.

Allow the peasants who have witnessed multiple hell's to take the reigns of the World. They already know exactly where pride, ego and abuse of power will take their spirit when their meat-suit naturally perishes.

They know hell, they know what the word 'infinity' feels like in the Lake of Fire and how no word can describe it.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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Da debil is a bad man.
Bad as Staggerlee. Cruel Staggerlee.

edit on 9/17/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 03:13 AM
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a reply to: Phage

Mine was a load of dribble but this is the best answer by far.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 03:23 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Music ain't bad neither.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 05:00 AM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Yes your ideas are very interseting
Yes Human Beings affect each other in concious and also unconcious ways

Once this is realised that information can be used in two ways
One to assist others or alternatively to assist one's self at the expense of others

The way thought is used can also be physically detremental to the user or benificial depending on the type of thought

To make things simple ... There are two categories of thought and within each category many parts

For example.

When going into the company of another or others ... apprehension can occur ...
Now apprehension can be a thought in itself to be considered ... the apprehension can be there to show you that you
Want your own way ... working out what you will say and how another might react and so on to get the result you Want

From this fear can occur ... fear of things not going as one would wish

Better to acknowledge the way one is and to act otherwise
Allowing all to express there ideas without judgement
Better to try understand why a person is how they are and why they say and do what thy do

Regarding the Devil ...
The Devil can not be proven to exist
The Devil is a Human construct
The attributes of the Devil and God are Human constructs

Yet there is a divine spark and also a self destruct tendancy in Humans

I believe all Humans have a vast potential and the Human Mind is key to this

I am meandering so will finish there

But yes thought affects health without a doubt










edit on 17-9-2016 by artistpoet because: typos



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 05:40 AM
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I find the problem with getting to the root of a lot of biblical discussion is that the bible is mistranslated in a lot of areas and some of the biggest areas are those concerning the nature of evil/lucifer/satan.(from God/Jesus's view point)

From the perspective of the bible, there is no inherent evil without God.

What I mean by that is you are a person and I am a person, your view isn't more right than mine and my view isn't more right than yours, unless we can convince each other otherwise, then we might be able to convince the next person and have group with the same view.

But with out God (from a semetic-religious) there is no governing force to guide man or dictate good and evil

The devil would be what ever is working against the laws that God has given his people.

If you really cared about gods word you would probably take the time to learn how to read it in the language it was written in so you knew that it was the correct words you were receiving, but hey McDonald's just opened so I got to go.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767
The whole Dr Virginia Steen-McIntyre thing is interesting.

Why the Mexican government would involve themselves in this seems strange.
My only possible explanation for this could be the disruptions that would be caused by accepting what could just be an anomaly in the dating as fact.

That' a weak excuse however, so I have to answer that I can't explain it.

The sphere's are strange also but the lack of consistency with the sphere's leads me to believe they are not evidence of previous civilisations as the variation is more than what you would expect with mass production.

As for the nano spirals it seems according to the vid that it could have been caused by an extraterrestrial space war.
I think that's a bit of a stretch however I haven't seen any theory that supports the view that humanity created.

If anything this could actually be the solid proof of ET that we have been looking for. Or a natural process we are unaware of such as the screw that was found in the old rock.

Anyhoo, I don't want to derail the thread any further however I thank you for pointing out the nano spirals. It's something I will be investigating further.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Warranted with the sphere's, they are very intriguing though even if not artificial as there are account's of some of them when opened containing a powdery white substance that falls to pieces once exposed to the air and other's being solid.

As for the Mexican government as in the case of the Peruvian ICA stone's which are claimed to have been debunked because of a forced confession by a scared farmer the US state department has a lot of influence in south America and apparently several influential members of the influential Archaeological community in the US became rattled by both of these though to lay the blame upon them along would be wrong, there are other reason's that they may have not wanted evidence proving an extremely more ancient humanity or evidence of lost civilization's beyond the classicle and anthropological view to propagate.

If somewhere on earth there was a treasure trove of ancient technology that was more advanced than our's and they were searching for it then the defense department would not want anyone else to search for it, not as mad as it sound's the NAZI's actually did just that before and during WW2, there occult wing called the Ahnenerb actively sought out evidence of ancient science and high technology, if they found anything though it was either destroyed or captured by the Allies or Russian's at the end of the war.

They may also believe such a revelation could cause the same kind of collapse in religion and society that they feared over the UFO crisis but there are also many other reason's.

Lastly it could simply be disbelief and therefore unfortunate but not neferious.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
If somewhere on earth there was a treasure trove of ancient technology that was more advanced than our's and they were searching for it then the defense department would not want anyone else to search for it, not as mad as it sound's...


I can't argue with that however I would need examples of the application of such technologies.
Unless they are just withholding info from everyone including their own scientists, in which case nothing can be proved either way and the value of the discussion drops considerably as it turns into faith debate.



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