In a Basket of Deplorables

a reply to: DBCowboy

Isn't calling someone deplorable because of the things they do and say also free speech?

a reply to: Puppylove

I meant never again would I open myself up to such accusations on the basis of a principle. My hope was that the Libertarians would get 15% of the vote so they could get Federal money for their campaign, not that they had a good candidate. I need something concrete to go on after that, and Johnson ain't it.

I should have made myself clearer. My apologies. I have always voted for the person, not the party, and I will continue to do that.

TheRedneck

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I oppose violence used for political purposes.

As heckling, slander and rhetoric are merely words, I would agree that people are actors, words are not.

de·plor·a·ble dəˈplôrəb(ə)l/ adjective deserving strong condemnation. "the deplorable conditions in which most prisoners are held" synonyms: disgraceful, shameful, dishonorable, unworthy, inexcusable, unpardonable, unforgivable; More shockingly bad in quality. "her spelling was deplorable" synonyms: lamentable, regrettable, unfortunate, wretched, atrocious, awful, terrible, dreadful, diabolical; sorry, poor, inadequate; informalappalling, dire, abysmal, woeful, lousy; formalgrievous "the garden is in a deplorable state"

www.google.com...=meaning%20of%20deplorable

WEll, I guess lump me in there although the meaning does not seem to fit...

This seems to fit much better...

What is the opposite of deplorable? What's the opposite of deplorable? Here's a list of antonyms for this word. Adjective praiseworthy Adjective acceptable bearable blessed fortunate good happy lucky nice pleasant respectable satisfactory successful tolerable wonderful cheerful delightful excellent shameless

www.wordhippo.com...

Interesting thread. I would posit that, half of Hillary's Supporters are deplorable as well, just like Trumps, but in a different way. Hillary's supporters ignore the fact that she rigged the primary and think that's okay for some reason?

Back to the OP, you seemed to be saying that you don't want to be lumped into the same catagory as Limbaugh and Hannity and I agree, who would want to be lumped into any catagory with those idiots....

Two points though, You listen to, watch and read Ann Coulter, one of the most deplorable people on the planet..thus if you are influenced by her, are you not also Deplorable? We are the media we consume, after all.

Secondly, Donald Trump is truly deplorable as well, research him...thus by definition, I would take it further...if you support either Hillary or Trump are you not supporting a deplorable person and thus are deplorable by definition? LOL

Or at the very least, very gullible and weak minded.

a reply to: TheRedneck

FYI...15% is needed in the polls for debate participation in the current election.

5% of the official vote is what is needed so they get the same federal funding for the next general election.


I also vote for the person. Which is why there is no way I can vote for the two crooks of the the two party system.

None of the candidates have quality ideas this time, but at least Johnson isn't a crook or liar like Trump or Clinton.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Perhaps it is 5%. In any case, I remember that it was a low number that I felt at the time was achievable.

I was wrong.

I will not describe another person by using the word 'deplorable,' but if there was ever a person who was genuinely evil, completely un-empathetic, and heinously self-centered, it is Hillary Clinton. We may have to agree to disagree on the extent of Trump's undesirable attributes, as well as on the extent of Johnson's desirable attributes.

TheRedneck

ETA: If it is 5%, it is entirely possible they will meet the margin this time.

I've argued here from a particular position, to offset some of the nonsense that gets repeated about this speech of Clinton's.

I've given this a good bit of thought. At first, I was truly impressed with her, she's normally so cool and even flat in everything she says, my first thought was "good for you, finally spoke your mind!"

That's true to a large extent still, because I was proud of her not merely for the "deplorables' comment, but for the stronger more direct comment that a good portion of Trump supporters are hard-working Americans, desirous of a change, concerned for their families, and that the appropriate response to those people was empathy and understanding.

Very few candidates today would make a statement like that about people opposed to them.

As I think more about it, even though it is a figure of speech, I wish she hadn't said "half" of Trump's supporters are ... anything. That's not provable, as LM has pointed out here. Trump has catered to the alt right on more than one occasion, so I have no trouble with the "elevated" comment ... as far as the run-of-the-mill Trump supporter (although I still absolutely cannot understand where they are coming from) she made a mistake, and she's apologized.

I'm pretty sure she won't make that mistake again. For any Trump supporter here who is not racist, sexist, etc., you have my apology as well for unfairly categorizing you in things I've said.

Once pppl set their minds or make up their minds it is almost impossible to change them even if it only to consider, really to simply consider another way of looking at the subject. This is societies weakness, religiosity, state-ism, racism and all the other messy isms.... Love those ... but I digress, it is our shared weakness.

So where do we go from here if only at our discussion forum? Could some open minded member who has changed their mind, opened their mind to how they did it post or make a thread about it where others can also discover how to do the same? It does not matter what your personal tipping point for change was or even who you changed to, just the logistics of how it can be accomplished.

Seriously, it is becoming an albatross around all of our necks to even politely talk about the possibilities, the current and future of this election process. Never before has it been more important for us to come together for the common good of our country, for all of our futures to keep an open mind about how this is all going to go down and to stay on top of the truth in the midst of a flurry of lies.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DBCowboy

Isn't calling someone deplorable because of the things they do and say also free speech?

We could take a look at that.

I suppose you could say then that calling someone any of the basket of ethnic slurs available to you as simply being descriptive of their ethnicity is likewise free speech.

We are told that this is not permissible as it is derogatory and hurts feelings.

Wouldn't it be just as derogatory and likely to hurt feelings to use those other labels on people?

a reply to: antar

I'm not sure that many would agree that I've "opened my mind" as I generally end up countering faulty arguments rather than making them ... but what I do TRY to do is to focus on FACTS.

Not opinions, not theories, not emotional appeals ... just facts.

Yes, we can debate what is fact and what isn't ... but we should be doing it with concrete evidence, not belief.

Sorry if this wasn't what you were looking for.

originally posted by: antar
Once pppl set their minds or make up their minds it is almost impossible to change them even if it only to consider, really to simply consider another way of looking at the subject. This is societies weakness, religiosity, state-ism, racism and all the other messy isms.... Love those ... but I digress, it is our shared weakness.

So where do we go from here if only at our discussion forum? Could some open minded member who has changed their mind, opened their mind to how they did it post or make a thread about it where others can also discover how to do the same? It does not matter what your personal tipping point for change was or even who you changed to, just the logistics of how it can be accomplished.

Seriously, it is becoming an albatross around all of our necks to even politely talk about the possibilities, the current and future of this election process. Never before has it been more important for us to come together for the common good of our country, for all of our futures to keep an open mind about how this is all going to go down and to stay on top of the truth in the midst of a flurry of lies.

I think it involves separating what is actually meant to hurt and demean from what is simply something you don't want to hear or don't like hearing, not because the other person is trying to be mean, but because you simply don't like hearing it because you don't like it.

a reply to: ketsuko

I can't resist ... so you're saying the key is Intent?

Count me in the #NeverHillary camp.

I'm voting for Trump, because I have no other alternative.

I KNOW what Hillary will do, and the great mystery of what Trump will do is the safer alternative. That's sad.

Before anyone spouts off about the other two...be realistic, they have zero chance of getting elected. Not the way I want it to be, I would prefer a multi party system, but that will just not happen unless there is a mass change of heart from the divisive rhetoric coming from the current system.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'll say it. The key is intent, and the perception of that intent based on the perception of previous actions.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Gryphon66

I'll say it. The key is intent, and the perception of that intent based on the perception of previous actions.

TheRedneck

No, intent solely.

When you start adding in perception, then we start getting the tangled up mess we have today. Today the focus has shifted so onto perception that what something I do or say means to you matters more than what my original intent was.

So if it happens to be my bad luck to be in a budget meeting with a black man who takes offense to me referring to a consistently costly budget item as a "sucking black hole" in our budget and considers it a racial thing and not simply something where I am referring to the item's propensity to suck down huge amounts of cash for little to no return, then he can complain to Human Resources over my microaggression against him for using racially charged language.

Or the Clemson QB is on record saying that he thinks the term dual-threat QB is actually code language for black QB, not because it actually is, but because he feels it to be a racially charged term.

Or let's look at the guy who shot his coworkers on the air. He was so hyperaware of anything that could be construed as racial that the simple act of a coworker bringing watermelon in their lunch was a racial slight that helped send him off the deep end.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

I can't resist ... so you're saying the key is Intent?

No, I know where you are going. You are going to say that Hillary didn't intend to insult anyone.

But that's the point. She did intend to insult someone or someones, and you all admit as much. You are trying to parse hairs by claiming ... oh, she didn't mean you ... did she? Are you saying your ...?

The problem is that she was being "grossly generalistic" (whatever generalistic means), so she didn't define precisely whom she meant to insult leaving that one open to interpretation for anyone and everyone. That has been our point.

Many of us have pointed out that at some point or other, we have had those labels hung on us by other people for one reason or another related mainly to political dissent and disagreement and no other reason. Certainly I don't think many of us are marching at White Power parades or wearing sheets and burning crosses on anyone's lawn.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Clinton talked about two groups in her speech. I prefer to think that a Trump supporter is a good, hard-working American until they prove differently by their actions, however, I do believe that anyone who tries to reduce the reality of despicable and deplorable beliefs and actions like racism, sexism, homophobia and religious intolerance to mere semantics deserves the same ranking as the racists, sexists, homophobes and religious bigots.

That basket is getting bigger every day it seems.

Yeah and if hillary should ever win the race, she would be working for the deplorables.

I don't think she mentioned religious bigots tho, that would alienate some of her voters.

She has made "shooting someone on 5th ave" and "what's an Aleppo" look like a mispronounced word, with her basket rant.

She is so screwed.

Why is she running for potus, again?

a reply to: ketsuko

I see your point.

I mentioned perception solely because it requires a huge amount of evidence to truly establish intent. Intent alone is a mental exercise, and no one I know of has actually learned to read thoughts. In some cases, the intent is clearly specified; in other cases it can be subtle and next to impossible to discern.

But your point stands: perception of intent has its own issues, because perception as well is a mental exercise.

Might I suggest 'reasonably perceived intent'?

TheRedneck

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Islamophobes, religious bigots ... same thing.