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In a Basket of Deplorables

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posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
"Hate" crimes are the authoritarian cabal's way of dehumanizing.

And "cabal" is the surefire sign that someone is about to take a dive off the deep end.




posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: daskakik
Attacking me won't support your position at all. It simply shows that you have no argument. I find that deplorable but I'm not advocating for you being locked up for your hateful reply.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Blatta blatta dishonesty blatta blatta sophistry blatta blatta desperately trying to make your opinion of Gryph important since your arguments in this thread and its creation were so clearly shown to be hypocritical...

Sad, really.


You're sad again? The details of your mood swings will not change the principles of valid reasoning, nor my attitudes towards them. You could easily refute my argument using the same principles, but you will not, despite the many openings I left for you. The only thing you clearly showed was your propensity for invalid reasoning and sophistry.

I have no opinion of you. I don't know you. I have an opinion of your arguments and writing, however, and they are riddled with straw-men, which are used to give the impression of winning an argument, a deception you are desperately trying to maintain.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt

Not only that, but most hate crimes are intimidation, vandalism and simple assault. According to FBI statistics from 2014, hate crime offenders made up less than 0.000162% of the US population. Though crimes of this manner are repugnant, it's not quite the world-destroying violence that people make it out it to be.
edit on 20-9-2016 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
Attacking me won't support your position at all.

My position? What would that be?


I find that deplorable but I'm not advocating for you being locked up for your hateful reply.

I don't recall anyone advocating for the locking up of anyone. Strawman much?



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
You could easily refute my argument using the same principles

You already did that. Don't you see it?

People taking offense to Trump's words earlier this year reacted. You said it was on the listener and not Trump.

People taking offense to Clinton's words are reacting now. By your logic, that is on them and not Clinton.
edit on 20-9-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: daskakik





People taking offense to Clinton's words are reacting now. By your logic, that is on them and not Clinton.



I'm not sure what people taking offense to Clinton's words has to do with anything I've said.
edit on 20-9-2016 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

From your OP:

Never once did I expect to find myself in the same (oh lord) basket of deplorables as with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Duke, the KKK, The New Black Panther party, Pepe, and by extension, a whole host of other unsavory individuals.


Clinton didn't put you (or anyone else) there. She just said words.

You (and others) placed yourself in that category and, as has been pointed out more than enough times, you could have chosen to place yourself in the other category Clinton mentioned.

If it isn't about that then, what was the OP about?


edit on 20-9-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Tactics? Do you mean one speech using an off-hand, grossly generalized metaphor? No that doesn't make anyone anything.

I agree that what separates us is 99% artificially manufactured.

Among the bad things are good things: for example, in the speech that has set everyone off and served as the supposed impetus for this hypocritical thread, Clinton stated that there are "bad folks" and "good folks" ... and that the good folks are hard-working Americans trying to protect their families and improve their lives, and she encouraged us all to empathize and understand that folks make different choices (like supporting Mr. Trump.)

Racists are people, sure. As are socialists, liberals and leftists. We need to stop demonizing each other? Agreed.

Oh, if you're looking for introspection on my part, I know myself quite well. I can think of all kinds of things about me that are deplorable.

Here's the difference as I see it applying ostensibly to this dishonest thread. I would never take one of my faults (for example, a nasty temper) and glorify it, praise myself for it, make my flaw a matter of distinction and pride.

And that is what is happening all too often, in this thread and others like it. Closed minds only want to deal with a part of what Clinton said ... and ignore the very positive (and rare) comment that her opponents followers are hard-working Americans that deserve understanding.

Therefore, when I see people making jokes and wearing the "Deplorable" label with pride, that suggests to me that they think racism, sexism, etc. are just fine and dandy, which is a position, as long as it is held, that is indeed "unredeemable" (at least in my opinion.)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

From your OP:

Never once did I expect to find myself in the same (oh lord) basket of deplorables as with the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Duke, the KKK, The New Black Panther party, Pepe, and by extension, a whole host of other unsavory individuals.


Clinton didn't put you (or anyone else) there. She just said words.

You (and others) placed yourself in that category and, as has been pointed out more than enough times, you could have chosen to place yourself in the other category Clinton mentioned.

If it isn't about that then, what was the OP about?



You left it out, conveniently.

From the same paragraph:



But guilt by association has been a popular tool of politicians this campaign season, and propagandists in general, that I am not in the least bit surprised to find myself on the receiving end of it.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That is your fallacy. Receiving end of what, more words?



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That is your fallacy. Receiving end of what, more words?



Yes, the fallacy is being used against Trump supporters, of which I am one.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Poor you, always the victim.

When it was Trump's words aimed at others those reacting should have seen them for what they really were, just words.

Now they are Clinton's words aimed at you, because you grabbed the barrel and pressed it against your own head, they are more than just words?
edit on 20-9-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: daskakik



Poor you, always the victim.

When it was Trump's words aimed at others those reacting should have seen them for what they really were, just words.

Now they are Clinton's words aimed at you, because you grabbed the barrel and pressed it against your own head, they are more than just words?


A fallacy is not "just words". Clinton's words are not aimed at me, but as I explicitly stated numerous times now, the very same fallacy is used to justify violence against Trump supporters.

Poor you; always misrepresenting another's arguments.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis


People are starting to wake up to the fact that the division is killing us. Right and left are talking to each other - a little here, a little there...but it's a fascinating and wonderful thing to see. It's also easy to miss because the bulk of the chatter is still made up of vitriol, hate and one-upmanship. More importantly - an unwillingness to actually listen to what the other person is trying to say

Yes, they are. I'm glad you can see that too. It's called 'compromise,' and it can be a wonderful thing. There's another thread on here where I was discussing compromise... can't seem to find it at the moment.

Compromise, though is not compromise if it only works one way. Both sides have to be willing to listen. If I listened to your point about Hillary's deplorable comment being only directed at a select few, then I expect you to listen to my point about Trump's words being taken out of context. If both of us decide to do that, then we both win. We both gain a fresh perspective.

But if either of us decide to not listen to the other, to demand we have things our way unconditionally, then there is no compromise, there is no truce, there is no winner. The anger and hatred grows.

To put this all in context (again):

I have seen with my own eyes, in my own lifetime, the destruction of freedom of speech... not by laws passed or by regulation, but by a social enforcement of a code that discourages speech. One of the highest complaints I have with the current administration is that I am essentially unable to even state a disagreement without being surrounded by people who see me as a 'racist.' The fact that I would disagree with a black President is all the evidence needed to make that assertion. For this reason, combined with the fact that it has become obvious to me that my opinions are of less than no concern to anyone in government, I have essentially gone silent on anything to do with the Obama administration.

The word itself is not my primary concern. I have been called much worse in my life. What is of concern to me is the fact that in my daily life I have to interact with a lot of people. This interaction becomes difficult when that particular label is applied... I become unable to interact with black people (who make up a substantial portion of those I have to deal with), I have to answer uncomfortable questions any time my ability to access data is questioned, and I also run the risk of my family members being assaulted, both verbally and physically, because of that particular label applied to me.

All of this despite, as I have said before, being color-blind where skin color is concerned.

And of course, we can always find other problems... I am a Southerner. That means my culture is typically seen as 'racist' by those who have never been here (the racism today in the South is less than I have seen in the New England area). I am proud of who I am and will not turn my back on my family and my culture. Also, it means much of my family history is tied to the Confederate Battlejack, which has been redefined from a symbol of our heritage and willingness to stand and fight for our way of life, to a symbol of hate and racism by those who have no emotional ties to it. I will not accept that redefinition.

Combined, that means I walk a very thin line that I should not have to walk. It means I bite my tongue when I can, and worry when the rhetoric becomes more than I can take without speaking up.

Unlike Trump, I need to work to make a living. If I cannot perform a job, I endanger my family as well as myself. We need food to eat, electricity, gasoline to travel to work, and it's very nice to have things like Internet access and phones. Those things cost money; when one is deprived of the ability to make a living, one is deprived of those things others take for granted.

Now you can go on and tell me I need a 'tougher skin' or I should just 'ignore it' all you want. That tells me you do not understand the situation I face, and also tells me you do not want to understand. Again, if both sides are not willing to look at an issue from the perspective of the other side, there is no reason to expect a solution.

Now, I have one, and only one question for you: Are you serious enough in your concern to try and look at things from my perspective, or are you too self-assured that your position is the only one which is reasonable? Until this question is answered, no other response will be considered as anything but another tired excuse to continue the anger you claim to want ended.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


I completely get you. But across the pond in the UK were have just had our own lies and half truths and bigots. It has now culminated in the Poles being attacked. Firstly The poles helped the UK win WW2. Secondly No Pole has ever called me a N***er!

The West has lost the plot completely.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:08 PM
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Seems ATS is missing a money-making opportunity. You could charge $100 bucks to let people add "Deplorable" to their user names.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: daskakik
Thank you so much for proving my point.
I do appreciate it when people who have no point freely admit it.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I see people taking up the deplorables thing more as a "I'm sorry Mrs. Clinton we don't see half of us as deplorable nonredeemable people worthy of scorn and avoidance, we see flawed human beings a bit dirty and needing a good cleaning at times, but still human beings of worth. We see that such people are among your voters everywhere, we see that within every person is a bit of something Deplorable. We do do not accept your attempt to divide us and paint our side as any worse than yours. In the end there is something deplorable about each and every one of us. Words only have power if we let it, and we will not let yours have the power you wish. Instead of writing off half of us as unworthy, we will stand by them, as we stand with all others, we will recognize the truth, that we are all deplorable, we all have faults and the only true way forwards to to accept this fact and stop letting people separate us by our faults and instead work towards uniting by our similarities. You want to call some us deplorable Mrs. Clinton, that's fine, we're all deplorable and with fault, as are many of your supporters. We're willing to overlook that and accept any of yours that wish to join us, too bad you've written half of us off and now that we've decided to stand together all of us off. Words have power, and what you used in the hopes of dividing us against each other has instead resulted in unity because Mrs. Clinton, you're right we are the Deplorables."



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:01 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
A fallacy is not "just words".

Doesn't matter. Fallacy based on Trump's or Clinton's words would be the same. That is the part that you are missing. That is the fallacy I'm speaking of. Maybe a little late but it doesn't seem to be the same thing you are calling a fallacy.


Clinton's words are not aimed at me, but as I explicitly stated numerous times now, the very same fallacy is used to justify violence against Trump supporters.

Poor you; always misrepresenting another's arguments.

I understand your argument but it cuts both ways. Guess you just have to be obtuse to believe that Trump's words can't end up in the same "fallacy" as Clinton's words.



edit on 20-9-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)




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