Ford shifting all u.s. Small car production to Mexico

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Bluntone22

Your first line of the thread was "More jobs are leaving the country".

According to Ford, that is incorrect.

Not sure why you are working so hard at defending Ford (of all Companies) deciding to move small car manufacturing out of Michigan. They are moving this production to Mexico...therefore those jobs are leaving America.

They will increase production of SUV's and larger vehicles, and will do that in Wayne, Michigan. This is unrelated to the jobs they are moving to Mexico.

So...instead of small car jobs, plus SUV jobs, they will just have SUV jobs. That is less jobs in America...got it?

As Discotech said in his post:

"The Obama Administration, dreaming of a million electric cars on the road by 2015, loaned Ford the money to help it pay for development of hybrids and EVs, and to retool its factories to produce smaller, cleaner vehicles.

So, the American taxpayer risks $5.9 billion to keep Ford afloat, and to help them develop new technology for small vehicles. Ford says, "Thanks for the money...and, see ya! We're moving all small vehicle production to Mexico."

How many Americans REALLY want a job working on an assembly line 40 hours a week for 40 years? It's grueling, monotonous, backbreaking work and there's no way around that no matter how many robots you put in the factories, until the robots ARE the factories.

I have no problem with 2.5-world countries upping their people's standard of living by building production facilities or welcoming factories with tax breaks or whatever else legal they might use. It's high time the rest of the planet enjoyed a decent standard of living to include adequate housing and clean water, along with the US and Western Europe.

None of you would be willing to pay 50 to 100% or more extra for a car just because it was 'made in the U.S.' so stop your whining. Especially after years of the quality of cars coming out of Detroit being low rated crap.

Instead you might want to figure out how you can compete in a new first world economy where your brains and educational level will determine your salary, not so much your muscles, ability to handle boredom, and attendance record. In case you haven't noticed, we need more doctors, engineers and technicians and fewer mules.

It's not going to be an easy switch, especially given the average educational level of the average American and anyone unable to adapt will fall by the wayside, just like in all those countries you like to demonize. It's always been that way.

a reply to: Bluntone22

You think they wouldn't have tanked like GM and Chrysler had they not gotten that loan ?

It's like I said a glorified bailout

From the same article

And the Energy Department doled out billions more to Ford and others to preserve auto-making jobs in the U.S. while steering the industry toward cleaner vehicles.

Worked out well, didn't it...

originally posted by: SentientCentenarian
How many Americans REALLY want a job working on an assembly line 40 hours a week for 40 years? It's grueling, monotonous, backbreaking work and there's no way around that no matter how many robots you put in the factories, until the robots ARE the factories.

I have no problem with 2.5-world countries upping their people's standard of living by building production facilities or welcoming factories with tax breaks or whatever else legal they might use. It's high time the rest of the planet enjoyed a decent standard of living to include adequate housing and clean water, along with the US and Western Europe.

None of you would be willing to pay 50 to 100% or more extra for a car just because it was 'made in the U.S.' so stop your whining. Especially after years of the quality of cars coming out of Detroit being low rated crap.

Instead you might want to figure out how you can compete in a new first world economy where your brains and educational level will determine your salary, not so much your muscles, ability to handle boredom, and attendance record. In case you haven't noticed, we need more doctors, engineers and technicians and fewer mules.

It's not going to be an easy switch, especially given the average educational level of the average American and anyone unable to adapt will fall by the wayside, just like in all those countries you like to demonize. It's always been that way.

Plenty of people would do those jobs. Here in Chicago, we have the south and west sides which are pretty much third world shtholes at this point. A Ford plant opened in these communities would do wonders where someone could earn a decent living and not necessarily have to be an academic genius. The reality is that not everyone has the brains / qualifications to make big bucks in a service economy. You can't have entire swaths of the population with no ability to earn a living.

a reply to: Discotech


So the goverment saved them from the bankruptcy caused by the goverment?

Govt: you have to build cars like this...
Ford: but that will cost billions, we can't afford that.
Govt: here, take this money.
Ford: well I guess we have no choice.
Govt: see how we bailed you out?

a reply to: SentientCentenarian

How many Americans REALLY want a job working on an assembly line 40 hours a week for 40 years?

According to the number of underemployed and unemployed, quite a few. You do realize that for any well-paying job opening, there are hundreds of applicants?

I have no problem with 2.5-world countries upping their people's standard of living,,,

Neither do I. I have a problem with them doing it by lowering ours. Ford was started in the US, has received loans (bailouts) from the US, and should show some loyalty to the US.

If a Mexican company wanted to move a facility to the US, do you think Mexicans would be OK with that?

None of you would be willing to pay 50 to 100% or more extra for a car just because it was 'made in the U.S.' so stop your whining. Especially after years of the quality of cars coming out of Detroit being low rated crap.

Toyota makes cars here; Mercedes makes cars here; Hyundai makes cars here; Volkswagen makes cars here.

It can be done.

Instead you might want to figure out how you can compete in a new first world economy...

Judging by how other countries compete, perhaps we should

• devalue our currency
  
• Institute tariffs and restrictions on imports
  
• reduce regulations
  
• remove minimum wage and allow "slave labor"
  
• make deals with more powerful economies that only benefit us.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Edumakated

There won't be a tarriff war, the Elites won't have it.

Ultimately, what will happen is the North American Union and a leveling of the wage playing field across the US, Canada and Mexico average wage as you quoted above would come in somewhere around $9.00 an hour and there would be no unions.

a reply to: Edumakated

Surprised there isn't a huge price difference between union/non union built cars.

Truth be told this is about $. It is always about $, always.

a reply to: Bluntone22

That is not the same as jobs leaving the country.

a reply to: TheRedneck

If you really think relocating a plant to Mexico is good for the US economy, you are seriously deluding yourself.

I did not make any such claim.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Not sure why you are working so hard at defending Ford

Again, I am not defending them. I am only providing proper context to the issue.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Effects of the 2008–2010 automotive industry crisis on the United States

You should really read the article I posted previously and this to clue yourself up

The government proposals on more "clean" vehicles came in WITH the bailouts, it wasn't the cause of the decline of the industry, that was spurred thanks to the 2008 market crash and a decline in sales since 2005

Falling sales resulted in the Big Three's plants operating below capacity. GM's plants were operating at 85% in November 2005, well below the plants of its Asian competitors, and was only maintained by relying on cash incentives and subsidized leases.[84] Rebates, employee pricing, and 0% financing boosted sales but drained the automaker's cash reserves. The subprime mortgage crisis and high oil prices of 2008 caused the popularity of once best-selling trucks and SUVs to plummet. Automakers were forced to continue offering heavy incentives to help clear excess inventory.[85] Due to the declining residual value of their vehicles, Chrysler and GM stopped offering leases on most of their vehicles in 2008.[86] In September 2008, the Big Three asked for $50 billion to pay for health care expenses and avoid bankruptcy and ensuing layoffs, and Congress worked out a $25 billion loan.[87] By December, President Bush had agreed to an emergency bailout of $17.4 billion to be distributed by the next administration in January and February.[88] In early 2009, the prospect of avoiding bankruptcy by General Motors and Chrysler continued to wane as new financial information about the scale of the 2008 losses came in. Ultimately, poor management and business practices forced Chrysler and General Motors into bankruptcy. Chrysler filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on May 1, 2009[89] followed by General Motors a month later

I don't trust corporations promises of no job cuts, especially Ford.

Here in the UK, JCB (a well respected company) made a similar promise when they built a factory in Brazil.
In fact, they went one further as the chairman Sir Anthony Bamford said... "the expansion in Brazil will not threaten jobs in the UK and would benefit the UK economy".
Source: www.bbc.co.uk...

Three years later JCB staff had to agree to work fewer hours to save jobs after a collapse in global sales.
Source: www.theguardian.com...

This snippet from the article is interesting too...

Demand for JCB equipment has fallen fastest in China, Brazil and Russia

Yet it is the UK jobs under threat.

a reply to: seasonal

The market price is the market price. If consumers are willing to pay $100, companies will charge $100. However, if Company A can make the product for $25 and sell it for $100 but it cost Company B $90 to make and they still have to sell it for $100, you can see which company is going to lose out in the long run.

American car companies got fat and allowed themselves to be bullied by the UAW. They really didn't have any serious global competitors until the early 80s. So they could get away with paying exorbitant salaries for relatively low skilled jobs and accept piss poor quality in both design and reliability.

On lunch break so I don't have a chance to read all the posts to this thread but my first reaction is:

I can't wait to see all the Americans crossing into MX illegally trying to get a job, dodging the policia and standing in long lines at Walmart to send money back home. What a turn of events THAT would be.

The Ford workers will be fine, because Ford is going to make SUVs at those plants.

Chrysler workers, not so much. The Chrysler 200 isn't selling well, so they're laying off people at the plant in suburban Detroit that makes the 200. Also, the Dodge Viper is going to be discontinued next year, and altho Chrysler hasn't publicly admitted it yet, all signs point to the assembly plant in Detroit being closed. Also, the Chrysler plant in Toledo is only slightly younger than George Washington , and nobody in the auto industry thinks it has much of a future left.

The people who really need to be scared are the Canadians. Their labor costs are worse than the US, and the US automakers are being very cagey about how much longer their Canadian assembly plants will be open. General Motors is probably going to face a strike from the Canadian unions precisely because they won't promise to keep their Ontario plants (which produce slow-selling sedans) open.

On the southwest side of Michigan a company is having trouble finding workers that can pass a drug test. $24.86 an hour to start and can't clean up for 90 days.

Funny Really someday they will wish they tried to keep the job.

It doesn't matter a new financial system is coming down the pipe anyway.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: Bluntone22

Don't forget that Ford still owes the US taxpayer money for their glorified bailout

Automakers' Report Card: Who Still Owes Taxpayers Money? The Answer Might Surprise You

Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022. The Obama Administration, dreaming of a million electric cars on the road by 2015, loaned Ford the money to help it pay for development of hybrids and EVs, and to retool its factories to produce smaller, cleaner vehicles. While not characterized as a “bailout” by any means, let’s be honest: Ford’s loan – received at a critical time when other sources of financing weren’t available to automakers or their suppliers – no doubt helped the carmaker survive the industry crisis and contributed to its strong market position today, especially after the Obama Administration finalized tougher fuel economy rules this week.

Want to find something to blame ? Blame capitalism where profit is the most important thing in life, thousands of years since the Egyptians thought burying their "capital" with them in hopes of it joining them in the afterlife and we still haven't learned that we can't take money and trinkets with us when we die

Ford did not get bailed out.
They took a loan with set interest and payments.
The only reason they needed a loan was to research problems caused by federal government regulations.

And why do you leave out the greed of unions demanding more more more?

I work in a unionized factory and without that union we would be making 13 an hour instead of 21 an hour with all the overtime you want.

The reason why unions are demanding more an hour is because the cost of living is rising at breakneck speeds.

It's the governments fault not the workers.

originally posted by: mikell
On the southwest side of Michigan a company is having trouble finding workers that can pass a drug test. $24.86 an hour to start and can't clean up for 90 days.

Funny Really someday they will wish they tried to keep the job.

Is it union and what's the job?

Machine operator?

What's the cost of living like I'm looking for alternative opportunities.

Currently a machine operator making 21 an hour, 401k, lots of overtime and solid bene's.

The place I work can't find people who can handle the job either.

Oh, thermo forming and extrusion.

Don't be a bigot.

Buy Mexican.