Is the collapse of society just a convenient excuse?

Basically i just wanted to ask people if the reason/excuse used for the secrecy of total societal collapse has any merit.... i think it is an excuse used by the powers that be to not disclose the truth.. if what they believe will happen is true than it means we as a society are so primitive in our intellect that we would choose to kill ourselves rather than realize the truth. The truth being that we are not and have never been alone....ever...i am reminded of Plato's cave when i think about this.

I boil the real reason down to a couple of conclusuons.. the first being that the biggest reason for the secrecy is there are too many questions that arise feom the alien situation that NOBODY can answer (where they come from,why they here,do they mean us harm... so on and so forth.) That being said anybody who knows about politics knows that the one thing any public figure NEVER wants to say is "I dont know." They would rather lie and create a bogus answer rather than claim to not have an answer.
The second reason i believe is because of our inabilty to peacefully coesxist as a species and not as individual races or cultures. Different nationalties (USA,russia..but mostly the U.S) are so intent on keeping things to themselves as a country or as a nationalistic body that they forget that in the end we are all just human,regardless of race or colour or what language you speak. Its almost like we are a collection of primitive tribes within the same country fighting over everything instead of coming together for the greater good and becoming a stronger and more advanced union of people.

I also wonder if part of the issue comes down to the biggest problem in the world.....im gonna get some heat for this but that problem is......Religion... let me explain before you try and telekineticaly make my head explode..
The orginal majestic conclusion in the 1940s and 50s for regarding secrecy was that if the truth came out it would cause global religions to break down and thus a breakdown of organized society. If that is true than the real issue is that we have been so conditioned to believe baseless,unprovable religious stories that sound less believable than most hollywood fantasy movies..that may sound harsh but the fact of the matter is you cannot justify faith otherwise it wouldnt be faith, it would be fact.. there is more plausibility and probability and evidence of a single race or multiple species of creatures being far far more advanced than us visiting our planet than there is some guy walking on water and healing people or every single species on earth fitting on a single boat.. i have children's books at home that are more believable...i know that last bit will ruffle some feathers but im just calling a spade a spade...i truly wonder if we as a species are a large living representation of the allegory of Plato's Cave, look it up if you dont know what that is..

In closing i dont mean to sound harsh and smash anyones belief system but im just going with real facts and statistics that can be quantified. Something religions can never do for its beliefs..

Thanks for reading and i can wait to hear the responses for this one....

a reply to: makaveli3601


Short answer: Yes, an entirely human manufactured excuse for the poor example we are setting for a creature of supposed intelligence. As we look to the stars for brotherhood of life, we will slowly come to grips with our great failing.

Perhaps even now the shortcomings of our course are being revealed to us.

I think you had a little of a problem there mate

a reply to: makaveli3601

I also wonder if part of the issue comes down to the biggest problem in the world.....im gonna get some heat for this but that problem is......Religion... let me explain before you try and telekineticaly make my head explode..

Probably , religion is really just another form of factionalism when you boil it down and Humans have always been a factional species.
It could be argued that belief in Alien visitation has also become a religion with its own believers and nonbelievers.

I don't think society is collapsing but authority and peoples trust in it is , knowledge is power and today people have the knowledge of the world at their fingertips , that's a problem for those in charge.

a reply to: makaveli3601

I don't see why this is in the UFO forum as it should be in the political forum but to be fair it is a good question anyway.

To my mind it is about controlled chaos, chaos is as you know a great distraction keep your enemy's or in this case the general public divided until it is too late.

There are many reason's this is being done, why the policeman of the world has become a corporate stooge that sow's conflict instead of peace and not just so that arm's company's can sell both side's weapon's though that is a factor.

A plan to depopulate the world may be and indeed I suspect very strongly is in motion with an elite group of entitled individual's whom are in no way superior to those they are planning to cull being behind it and justified by some very convenient and suspiciously so scientific view's.

Where is the investment in off shore farm's, irrigation for desert's to stop desertification and hydroponic mass production of food, why does a corporation get away with sowing field's with a failed antibiotic sterilizing and killing the soil so that there fertilizer department then sell's nutrients which would have been in the soil anyway if a healthy crop rotation had been maintained and indeed force on the farmers there GM seed, why do they get away with this the single largest ecological rape of the environment that we all depend upon, a rape of the environment that is more harmful to other species than almost anything else?.

I could go on and on but the reason is to keep you stupid while they herd you down that iron grate to the slaughter house.

a reply to: makaveli3601

Thoughtful post makaveli, thanks for sharing.

I don't quite see how the E.T. issue comes into play with the idea of collapse of society, but I agree with what you said about Nationalism, organized Religion being a problematic societal construct, and us as a species failing to coexist peacefully.

Governments are not capable of keeping secrets.
The reason you don't have disclosure is that we have probably never been visited by alien life.

a reply to: Aliensun

ETA since you now have your statement in place: You note, surely, that in the modern world that religion has suffered greatly as the civilization has started to take a strong look at itself, where it has been and where it is going if it doesn't change and where it needs to go if our insights into the cosmos are to be followed.

I've mentioned this situation more than once on ATS. The day that the modern world--you can guess whom that encompasses--admits to the existence of UFOs and alien beings being in a working relationship with them is the day that the most barbaric of the religions will explode, implode and fractionize (yes, all of those responses).

The news of that event will be about the best thing to happen to the world as it will cause many of those advocates and onlookers to realize that humanity is part of a related and unique club and non of us have special privileges for getting into Heaven.

By various arguments from the "never" side, there will be a hopeless war(s) waged as their entire lives are tied to their religions, everything they believe in will be threated with extinction. There will be no recourse for them but to fight.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: makaveli3601

Thoughtful post makaveli, thanks for sharing.

I don't quite see how the E.T. issue comes into play with the idea of collapse of society, but I agree with what you said about Nationalism, organized Religion being a problematic societal construct, and us as a species failing to coexist peacefully.

Just playing devil's advocate here, total societal collapse would take everyone's eyes off the world and force focus them on local conditions, just staying alive. Communications would break down as would police and government services. This would allow millions of people to go missing, maybe billions, with little to no reporting. What if we were just a crop to an alien species? Societal collapse would provide the smokescreen for a mass culling, of course, so would a "rapture" scenario.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: makaveli3601

than it means we as a society are so primitive in our intellect that we would choose to kill ourselves rather than realize the truth.

check aaaand check.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The fact you said we are a "crop" to other races reminds me of a very dark program about UFOs i watched about how some races use our adrenal glands as food or drug like substances. the late Bill Cooper stated some crashes (azteca new mexico) contained vats of human body parts... some anonymous military people claim humans are basically emptied out with a vacuum like device while still alive, similar to some cattle mutilations... Phil Schieder also mentioned of the "harvesting" of humans for various horrifying reasons... scary scary stuff indeed... maybe ignorance in bliss when it comes to all this

a reply to: makaveli3601

Now I see your question in context, as you know when you first posted it the ATS banner was all that was visible but in it's context that is a very good question and in today's society I think there would be no collapse but in the spiritual vacuum of post 20th century and early 21st century life there is a real danger that cult's would form (and indeed they already have) around the UFO phenomena if the government's came clean and admitted that there are craft and objects that are beyond our capability's and that we did not put up there so that there are other intelligence visiting or present upon the earth.

Established religion and it's faithful would probably not even notice any change and in general society itself would simply continue with no crash.

But of course the smoke screen had a very beneficial by product and that is that it has proven immensely useful for covering up test flight's of prototype stealth and other aircraft, it is also useful for more shadowy groups and department's such as the so called men in black with there potential demonic nature.

So no I don't think the total societal collapse has any merit, it was an opinion of a man whom was being paid to say something and sadly that is what he said, it has been used though to close the mouth's of even higher ranked officers whom wanted to come clean and has been rigorously enforced, perhaps too rigorously and that is something I do find suspicious.

I don't think religion and other beings from other planets are linked at all. Our GOVs around the planets would be concerned with war, theft of resources or people, trading goods, and those goods leaving the planet forever, abductions, GERMS (intentional or unintentional and the vaccines needed). Their job of dealing with someone else showing up here would be monumental. What would you do if aliens started buying land or countries up with gold? The intellectual issues are what would be time consuming, and dealing with a physical presence of others. Religion is the least of it. Enforcing safety and laws and peace would be the issue. Same with taking in Syrian refugees. The answer from me is no thank you. Work on your own problems in your own homeland.

You've missed the biggest and best reason why they will never disclose(if they have something to disclose). Money and power. Think on this, if you had sole access to futuristic technology (Think on why the agencies rush to get and keep secret downed craft) and you could keep it secret from other people you can control any outcome.
Let me elaborate. What if a government had technology say that could give everybody free power without pollution at a minimal cost? What would happen? I'll tell you, they would keep it secret at all and every cost because it would completely upset their power base and structure. THAT is the reasoning behind "oh,it would upset the worlds paradigm" and that is the lie. It would not upset mine or your paradigm (it could bring us a far better living system) but it would certainly throw all the powerful people on the scrapheap and they don't like that.
A prime example, if said, when Tesla was supposed to have invented a device to transmit electricity, I think it was J P Morgan that said "if we can't meter it how can we get people to pay for it" so they killed the device. Nuff said.

a reply to: crayzeed

Very Well Pointed out, that is perhaps the status quo's biggest fear losing control and pretige by having to admit they are really second class after all.

a reply to: makaveli3601
Greetings-

Any relation to the Italian Renaissance Man Niccolo Machiavelli?

This is the ancient old Worship=War Ship..
This is something I got off of ATS™ a while ago. I don't know who authored it but it really fits; If anyone who reads this knows who originally penned it I'd add their name to it.


Worship equals War Ship.
It is disguised as "worship" but it is truly War Ship. Yes, get that initial giggle out and continue reading My words, as 'worshipping' is the biggest reason for wars.
Those men who build languages for MASSES to think in, are very versed in metaphysical natures.
When You pray to something that You do not know is truly there, You join the 'War Ship'. You worship something You don't know of and cannot see. You divide Yourself from Yourself and everyone around You.
Well in this language We call this "Blind Faith" Now when You have many factions worshipping, just different names that are man made, now there is 'division', the opposite of being WHOLE.
Now You've entered the 'War Ship' You clash with those who pray to the SAME CONCEPT under different names (Gods have no identity, just bogus names Man made up) This is inferior mentality.
Even though they are all human, all came from the SAME SOURCE, all are 5-based beings (think pentagram geometry)
One becomes concrete in what they worship, they judge and demonize those not praying to the same NAME.
Now You have war/division.
ISIS is defending it's concepts because the ONLY power those who join the War Ship have is physical chaos to those who oppose. Internally their people are weak and are not worthy to ascend to their internal potentials.
STOP worshipping and start accepting ALL, no matter the name they worship and if Your 'TRUTH' needs to be pushed then how TRUE is it really?
Truth needs no book, no doctrine, no dogma, no heirarchy. Truth stands on it's own, the rest is just pushing to compete with Truth and that is falsehood.

namaste

This doesn't just cover religions™ as You could probably ascertain this election season. This strife covers the gamut, from Ford™ vs. Chevy™ ; Raiders™ Vs. 49ers™ Raiders™ of course because Kraphispants doesn't stand up SEE???)

Double pop...

It might be for valid reasons. Let's flip this situation around for a second. Can you think of a time when it would make sense for leaders to withhold this information in order to keep the general peace? Here are some tinfoil examples to get us started:

1. What if aliens are responsible for some of our harmful viruses and ailments? As in, what if they've been unleashing pandemic viruses and genetic cancers against Earth every time our leadership doesn't follow their orders? The sheer outrage of knowing that millions of humans have been killed by them while our leaders did nothing would certainly cause civil unrest and revolutions.

2. What if alien civilizations have purposely contained us around our star, and threatened our leaders to stay in our solar system until we've cleaned up our own messes and have a legit 1 solar system government? Their reasoning could be that we are simply too immature to interact with their highly sophisticated inter-galactic federations, similar to humans opening negotiations with roaches.

So maybe they've threatened us with annihilation if we don't meet their demands, which include us: cleaning up all of our diseases and social programs; eradicating our national borders; forming a single human language (why should they learn hundreds of different human languages in order to interact with us?); and merging all of our ethnic groups into one.

In other words, would most humans be willing to accept it if aliens were forcing our global leadership to form a one world culture in order for them to accept us? Humans claim to love freedom, liberty, national sovereignty/self determination, and democracy (or at least republics). And we fight and kill each other over our borders, ethnic groups, and distinct cultural teachings. So why would any responsible leader think that the majority of civilians would act calmly if we found out that we're being forced to discard our histories and identities by alien threats?

3. And my favorite: What if the "alien" creatures perfectly matched the Islamic descriptions of our Jinn and Angels? As in, what if the discovery of "Aliens" and interactions with them proved that Islam was 100% true. Would we really expect Judeo-Christian and Atheist-Communist leadership to spread this information to their populations?

After all, the 2nd line of the very first Surah of the Qur'an directly calls God "The Lord of the Worlds". You can check for yourself HEREand HERE (this one shows multiple translations if you check the column on the left). So the existence of extraterrestrial lifeforms wouldn't nullify Islam.

ETA: Just thought of another one.

4. What if aliens are in a separate dimension and they feed off of the deaths in our dimensions? So what if our govts are being forced to engage in constant wars and different forms of killing just to sate their hunger? Everything from abortions and wars to insecticides and "pest control" could be our social and business leaders' attempts to keep these bloodthirsty aliens at bay. As in, the lifeforms that we kill could be sacrificial "offerings" to appease them in order for the rest of our lifeforms to survive. I'd imagine that disclosure of something like this would also cause significant rethinking if not panic.

Society isn't collapsing. And we get along just fine. I have nearly 8 billion ways to prove that.

Try not to project your personal life on the outside world. That's as much Plato's Cave than anything.