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How do you get to god?

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posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
At first I was thinking to myself, huh, how did he manage to pick out something about Catholicism in all my commentary, I didn't even remember saying anything about Catholics, then I checked and noticed the video. The reason I shared the video has less to do with the Vatican than the argument bible translators, scholars and theologians are using to replace God's name with the titles "The LORD", "The Lord" and "God" in bible translations approved of by Trinitarians of all sorts of denominations, including your choice of bible translation (including the claim that Christians in the 1st century never used or pronounced the divine name, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, some of which is included in the video, archeological evidence). Btw, the NKJV is based on the KJV which in turn is based on the Textus Receptus which was produced by Erasmus, a Roman Catholic priest (you seemed to use a translation that is almost exactly the same, so possibly also based on the TR, which actually takes a lot of influence from Jerome's Latin Vulgate, long story, another man that did a lot of deceptive works for Trinitarians). His ability to remain honest or do the bidding of the Vatican is well documented:

The NKJV still has the verse above in spite of the evidence. Honesty should be important to any believer in the God of Christ (see Ephesians 1:17), to any Christian or person who wants to be a follower of Christ, not deliberate continued deception (that's what we have evolutionary philosophers for, so they can make it obvious). 1 John 2:4 (NWT):

The one who says, “I have come to know him,” and yet does not observe his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person.

Being honest in translation is part of that. "Love rejoices with truth" (somewhere in Corinthians, the text about "love"). John 13:34:

I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another.

It's kinda of a big issue if you replace God's name (or go along with that behaviour by quoting such a bible in a location where it matters a lot; such as a verse that tells the reader who they should be seeking for) almost 7000 times while the bible says you should call upon his name. It's also an issue if you go along with using those bible translations when complaining about one that doesn't mislead people like that, just in case people here feel like doing that to my choices of translations for my quotations...

The "excercise faith" phrase sort of kicked it off. Who can you trust to be honest in translation? In my opinion it's not the ones making almost 7000 intentional 'mistakes' or continuing along the same line or practice when the evidence that "the LORD", "the Lord" and "God" is clearly wrong and deceptive is conveniently ignored and talked past (with excuses and twists, sometimes pretending it's an adequate alternative translation, that it's not important, we're supposedly agnostic about the exact spelling, etc.).
edit on 17-9-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

That's all awesome and good for you
I am not a Jehovah's Witness, I am a trinitarianism
If I wasn't I would be a Jew, I would ignore Christ and His message all together, Jesus would have been a false prophet and liar
We disagree, get over the fact we disagree, I can live with your choice, accept mine



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Paul couldn't forgive sin, only God can forgive sin
Christ was God, Paul, just a man

JWs don't accepte Christ as God, kinda the opposite to Gnostics from what I see



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


JWs don't accepte Christ as God, kinda the opposite to Gnostics from what I see

JWs accept the goodness of "creation", the material world will be restored in the end. Physical life will then be perfect.

Gnostics on the other hand, believe that material is a prison. Physical life is something to be overcome. The end goal is freedom from matter into a realm of pure light energy.

In the meantime, for Gnostics, the light from the realm of light brings Gnosis, the knowledge of truth, that they are Christs (anointed). In the physical life present, they too through gnosis are able to see past the delusion of material and overcome it. They should be walking through walls and walking on water.

I'm still waiting for the headlines in science journals.



posted on Sep, 17 2016 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


does anyone have a case to make for something other than the abrahamic deity? you know, for a change of venue. i think it would make for an interesting social experiment to defend one of the greek or roman or hindu gods.


Not the Hindu or Romans, but the New Age "Divinity" I will make a case for.

We are all connected to one another, and part of what is sometimes called "God." 'God' is an indescribable, overarching thing that, when asked about what he thought about it and what should they think about it, Siddhartha Gautama Buddha said IT IS AN IMPERTINENT QUESTION and frivolous to ask.

The Human mind can only dimly comprehend the depth of the Universe. Just like the cells in our bodies are part of us, but work without our supervision. Just like the microbes that live in and on us are unaware that they are part of us and help to keep us healthy, or conversely make us very ill....

ALL OF IT is part of you...and you are likewise part of something so vast and so far beyond words that it's silly to even imagine one could have all the answers. We don't. We can't.
Some people have profound, outrageously spectacular experiences where they are gravely in danger of death - or are briefly "dead" or 'comatose' and somehow come back....and they tell of that experience. I believe that those events are just as "real" as any, and should not be dismissed as "brain chemical high" or "dreams" or "hallucinations."

They are the evidence that we all continue on after our physical bodies die. We are fractals of a unified whole, and no more nor less important than the lowliest amoeba, or the mightiest black hole. It is all "Tao" - expressing itself.

We experience uncounted realms, dimensions, lifetimes, forms, etc.....all of it is for us to learn. For our core selves to learn.

Anyway - I don't think we ever "get to" some chair where some guy is sitting. We are it. The Tao.
We reincarnate countless times to learn about the thing we are.....and meanwhile we are also and always a part of it. The Tao.

That's one argument anyway --- Zen/Taoism.

There's another description/argument that I favor as well, and that has to do with reincarnations devised to give us the experience or chance to learn karmic lessons, and eventually we 'ascend' and don't have to come back anymore.
The movie "Defending Your Life" is one good example....(Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep, a romcom).

Also, there are spirit guides and angels that are our carers. They are the cosmic posse or committee or team or whatever. They work with us and are at the ready to do whatever is asked; they are also aware of what we are supposed to be learning...they guide and guard us, the spirit helpers also hang around.

Anyway, eventually we have enough lifetimes to have "graduated" - and then we can choose to come back to help out, or we can choose to go elsewhere, or merely rest. That is when we are closest to the Divine.

Those are my theories and experience.



posted on Sep, 18 2016 @ 02:48 AM
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a reply to: makemap

You appear to have put the horse before cart. It isn't clear which incarnation of god you are asking about. Unlike myself if you are willing to rely solely on faith you can believe in any number of gods from the Romans to Ancient Egypt. Beyond this point how you reach your "god" depends on the belief set you have chosen.



posted on Sep, 18 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman
I never said Paul forgave sins.

Paul said we receive forgiveness of sin through the work of Christ.

JW's don't believe in much of the word of God if it is in context. they also, like many today have themselves replacing Israel and they claim the kingdom for themselves. Hence Kingdom Halls.

JW'S is just a form of Replacement theology.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Why do you two squabble so? It's silly. It's like Trekkies arguing about whether Czhekov wore green in S3E4, or knowing what "More than 9000!" means --- something I just learned yesterday about DragonBall Z.

Fussing about Tolkien's LOR, or Hunger Games. It's really amusing in a sort of desperate way. Can you guys look at it like that? From an observer's perspective?

Choose any Fan Fiction cult. Describe and research. Then compare and contrast it to your dialogue here.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Fisrt f all we are not squabbling we know what we are speaking of.

Now comparing it to two worldly people arguing over a fictitious rendition done by men of muse for entertainment is utterly in error.

It is a statement of truth in clarifying sound doctrine.

But I do not at all expect you to understand that.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Tsk tsk. I fear, my dear Chet, that it is you who fails to "understand" the similarity. You have just as much evidence and no more than those books have (which is a walloping whopping dollop of Noneatall dot com/org) -- of it being reality.

But, I don't expect you to understand that, either....so, we're even. Reading....

reading is good. A wide variety of literature from all subjects and topics is recommended for most effective results. In the "humanities" and "liberal arts", that is. Essential to understanding more about 'life' than merely what you've observed as you've lived.

I suggest, truth be told, that you read every one of those tomes. The Entire Lord of the Rings Series. Also, Frank Herbert's "DUNE" series. Read the Hunger Games trilogy. Watch all of the StarWars movies, and all of the Star Trek episodes you can. Investigate the passions of the people who rally around those phenomena of staggering human ingenuity that offers up the same richness of material as your Bible.
edit on 9/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


It is a statement of truth in clarifying sound doctrine.


Friend, some 10 years ago I was immersed in geneaology and spent hours and hours transcribing Elizabethan English, and old Census forms. I am a linguist. Do not assume that I know nothing about it.

Just allow yourself to observe yourself as you two continue the speaking of that which you know. I have seen fights break out, and couples break up and friendships severed by the fans of such rich literary invention.

Do you honestly think that you know more than anyone else about all the inventive and spectacular things about this universe that we just do not understand? That you alone are capable of deciding what is important and what is not? The Bible is no more significant than ANY OTHER CLASSIC LITERATURE SERIES....

... For God's Sake!!! Take a Western Civilization class! If the words in the long books are too confusing, watch some documentaries or read the cliff's notes. Seek out Wikipedia summaries or Youth Edition schoolroom texts. ANYTHING besides "The Childrens' Illustrated Bible" that sits on that end table in your elderly dentist's lobby. Yawn. And "really?" Try to step out of your own ego and self for just a few minutes, and compare and contrast what you can observe about your own self (physically, emotionally, cognitively....) as you view the various exhibits.

Truly. Try it. Those people are JUST AS SERIOUS as you are. Did you not know that "Jedi" is a viable and formal religion?



Learn, you can. But will comes first.

edit on 9/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


Now comparing it to two worldly people arguing over a fictitious rendition done by men of muse for entertainment is utterly in error.


oh my word. This is a right prickly bit of prose here, above.

You dare to suggest that those authors, those literary geniuses are any less potent than Shakespeare? Any less significant than your Bible? You are misinformed, and sorely so.

Writers of that calibre are not simply writing for "entertainment" like some harlequin romance bodice-ripper series or a detective series......no.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LITERATURE. The Oddysey, The Iliad, The Sumerian Cuneiforms, The Roman and Greek Gods, the Egyptian Pantheon, the East Asian Oriental Buddhism, all of those. Mark Twains' Tom Sawyer and Huck Fi





GAH! How is it you are unaware of the general nature and classic formulae of great literature? OMG!!!


Every era produces several of those who write such divine comedies or deeply philosophical series...
and frankly, the VAST MAJORITY, both before and after the Nicean Council's 'anthologized edition' of collected anonymous ramblings and memoirs you call the Bible were devised -- the vast majority are better examples of human literacy. The Bible is a poor example of poor writing being randomly bound together in only a general consecutive order, with various authors participating, and sloppily compiled.

That is simply a fact, Chester.

edit on 9/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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wigs, that is why I said I did not expect you to understand you are not a believer nor do you believe the bible to be preserved of God.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
wigs, that is why I said I did not expect you to understand you are not a believer nor do you believe the bible to be preserved of God.



Are you implying that belief comes before understanding?



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


wigs, that is why I said I did not expect you to understand you are not a believer nor do you believe the bible to be preserved of God.


What? You just called me 'wigs'?

That's amazing. It really is remarkable. And that's why we have these never-ending dialogues.....




sigh


edit on 9/19/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Well didn't you call me chet?

I thought we were on shortened name terms after that.




edit on 20-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Nono, it's fine. My brothers used to call me "wigs", that's all. I think of it as a term of endearment.

I know you have no tenderness in your heart for me, a heathen free-thinker - and if anything you think that "praying for me" is something you are obliged to do as a good "Christian" to try to keep me out of hell, or at least to "see the light."

I don't want you to waste your energy or time pretending to care about people you don't care about, and in fact dislike. It's difficult. Supremely difficult to muster up charitable thoughts about people I dislike, usually because they are detestable and sorry specimens of healthy humanity. The most I can do is pity them, and give them a wide, wide berth.

I have my own journey to attend to - and those wallowing in hatred and rigid thinking generally have the insight of a tick, and the social skills of a swarm of midges. As that is the case, I have finally learned to ignore them, and to not let their nastiness bother me so much.

I just imagine what it must be like to be them....and it must suck to be them, I can't even stand to be within shouting distance of them! At least you and I have been able to have conversations. Others on this very thread make it impossible to have grown-up dialogue. Which speaks to general education, sensitivity, openness, curiosity, and the wonder of life. I learn something new every day...do you?


edit on 9/20/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
You are correct I do pray for you. I do muster up a lot of power to love people as I a commanded too, fortunately I am not commanded to like anyone, however if you were in need I would do my best to help you as I am able I see no harm in that and it would show my love.

there are some things we must be ridged in and others we must be malleable. I too am on journey as I grow in Christ. My dad was a photographer I the 70's when I was a teenager, I knew how back then. He died in 2003 and recently I wanted to take up photography again. I bought a new EOC Rebel SL1 some lenses filters and other equipment and now trying to get into digital Photography. It is not s easy as it looks and nothing like it was in the 70's.

I do try to endure and grow I think that is a noble endeavor in this life.

edit on 20-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: BuzzyWigs
You are correct I do pray for you. I do muster up a lot of power to love people as I a commanded too, fortunately I am not commanded to like anyone, however if you were in need I would do my best to help you as I am able I see no harm in that and it would show my love.



If you love everyone because you are commanded to... that in my opinion is not love. Love is not something you command or demand. If you love your neighbor out of fear of hell then that is called blackmail.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

If we don't do as we are commanded we will never grow. Paul's teaching was for us to love the brethren, and Christ's was to love thy neighbor I choose to do both. One is not a choice and the other is.

your opinions on the matter means nothing but if I try and love people in my flesh as you do it will account for nothing at the Judgement


edit on 20-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



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