The state of (state) education in the UK

I've calmed down a bit now. Enough to type this.
Today at school my 13 year old daughter told an older girl who was bullying a younger one to pack it in.
The older girl attacked mine, who, since she has two older brothers, fought back. They were eventually separated by three older boys who then went off in search of the student councillor type to report it.

Anyhow, despite CCTV showing the whole incident and the aftermath, the deputy head (a priggish, shadow of a man) decided to exclude my daughter from school (along with the bully).

My wife tried explaining to him why this was not only unfair, but just plain wrong. He continued dancing around the issue and I cracked and got my wife to give me the phone.

On questioning him he hadn't watched the cctv, he refused to acknowledge the school's failure to protect the younger children by not having enough staff and even tried to tell me that the fight was broken up by a teacher when I challenged him.


Whenever one of my kids has been in trouble (A recurring theme with my youngest boy) Both me and my mrs have supported the school all ways up in whatever punishments and sanctions they imposed. Even adding xbox bans and the like to drive the message home.

Now this...

On what planet is it remotely right to expect a child to just stand there and take a beating off anyone, let alone an older kid, without fighting back?

The deputy head's own words were "She is suspended for fighting on school property". As though that justifies it.

I tore him off a strip, told him exactly the sort of person I thought he was and will be seeing the head of the school.

Meanwhile, my daughter has lost a day's schooling and I will have to fight hard to ensure that this is struck from her record.


I tell you, I could have smacked the mealy mouthed little beta thing in the face if he were stood in front of me with his platitudes and obfuscations.

Right, rant over. No wonder schools screw kids up.

a reply to: SprocketUK

It's not much different here in the states, where many (if not all, at this point) schools institute a zero-tolerance for bullying and fighting. Of course, there is still bullying and fighting, and like what happened with your daughter, if trying to break up a fight gets you in the mix, you're suspended, too.

It's ridiculous, and I refuse to accept it as normal. We homeschool our 13-year-old (have for about 5 years, now), but even when we wanted him to try public school this year, before he went, I made sure to let him know that I would never be mad at him if he were to stand up for someone being bullied, even if it meant that he got in some major trouble.

Basically, I would have acted like you, and almost did (but held back) at one point during the 2.5 weeks of public school in which my son participated this year. My son does parkour (actually takes classes and trains), and has a neighborhood friend how likes to do it, but doesn't really know what he's doing. Well, said friend got himself stuck up on a retaining wall on school property after school, and my son wanted to help him get down, so he started climbing up the wall. While doing that, a teacher saw them and they both got in trouble--my son had a week's worth of cafeteria lunch time taken away, and he had to leave school grounds immediately after school, all for trying to help his friend who was frozen out of fear because he couldn't get down off of the wall.

My son has Asperger's, and that was the tipping point in his ability to handle the public school setting, so we withdrew him and continued homeschooling.

I can only imagine what would have happened if he had tried to break up a bullying incident and got caught in the mix.

Sucks for your daughter, but as a parent, I commend her for stepping in, and you for having her back.

I've always looked at schools and work places the same way.

Those that know, do.
Those that don't, teach/manage.

That unfortunately puts clueless idiots in charge.

a reply to: SprocketUK

The deputy head's own words were "She is suspended for fighting on school property". As though that justifies it.

If that school has a zero tolerance policy then he is right she was fighting on school property. Your daughter did do the right thing standing up to the bully but she didn't have to get involved.

a reply to: SprocketUK


Zero tolerance policies are a move in our western societies to produce good little cash cows and future prisoners, thing is your daughter did nothing wrong, she stood her ground, and as long as she knows that than I reckon # what the state says, I understand your frustration, I hope your day goes smoother brother.

Thanks folks. Its nice to know it isn't just me.

For what it's worth, I've always told all my kids that they need to step up and defend themselves, I always told them I'd take as much of the heat as I can if they ended up in trouble from fighting (as long as it was justified).

This really has me mad though. I can't conceive of a situation where such a zero tolerance rule could ever be justified, there will always be someone who is being dealt with unjustly in this case.

It's the worst sort of socio-lefty-statist rubbish that ruins society. You are dead right Technixality, its about producing cash cows and sheep.

No matter what happens, I intend mine to be bloody wolves.

Good on your daughter......the lesson she learns in all this from you & mom trumps the lesson she would have learned missing that one day. Tell her an ole guy in the states said...That's damn awesome of her to stand up for what's right. Be damned the punishment. Our schools in both countries simply pump out dumbed down consumers.

originally posted by: SprocketUK



Meanwhile, my daughter has lost a day's schooling and I will have to fight hard to ensure that this is struck from her record.

What record?

Soon as she leaves school everything but her GCSE will be put in the shredder.

10 years down the line she won't be denied a job or barred fromuniversity over a one day suspension

a reply to: SprocketUK

The whole damn world is bf stupid, the UK does not have a monopoly on idiocy.

a reply to: SprocketUK

dbl

a reply to: openyourmind1262


I may just show her this thread



Crazy, she has sixth form to consider in a few years, this is the kind of thing that could make a difference in her getting into the one she wants.

a reply to: SprocketUK

No it wont.

Long as here GSCE are good. Thats all they judge on.

I dont even think its legal to share such records due to the privacy laws.

Only thing that can be shared is criminal records.

Sounds normal to me. Part of growing up being bullied or bullying. I got bullied fought back and got sent home I had a week off. It builds character just big up your girl help her confidence.
Oh and I agree with ewok it doesn't go on a real record and if it dI'd no one would care.

a reply to: crazyewok

Well my wife teaches at the school down the road and she is intensely upset about it affecting her chances. She would know, after all. Especially with all the good sixth forms being tough to get into around Cheltenham.

I don't think getting sent home for sticking up for yourself builds character. I think that's a way to install some sort of slave mentality.
Sod them anyway. She knows she did right and I will continue to tell her she was right.

Anyway, she has her choice of what to watch and eat for the rest of the day.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Well my wife teaches at the school down the road and she is intensely upset about it affecting her chances.

If i were a boss in the UK and your daughter came to me for a job how would i be able to find out this info ?......unless i misunderstand you and she thinks it will affect her future schooling...either way i was just curious as to why your wife believes it will affect your daughter down the track....

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: SprocketUK

Well my wife teaches at the school down the road and she is intensely upset about it affecting her chances.

If i were a boss in the UK and your daughter came to me for a job how would i be able to find out this info ?......unless i misunderstand you and she thinks it will affect her future schooling...either way i was just curious as to why your wife believes it will affect your daughter down the track....

It's about 6th form, not work. She has about 7 years including uni before she has to think about work.

There is no "record".

The school can provide a refrence when going to 6th form, but that about it.

But if this is a one off and otherwise she is getting good grades they wont mention it.

Screwing up a pupils future is hardly worth it nor a good reputation idea for the school.

They will only give a bad refrence if she getting suspensed every other week and getting D's.

a reply to: crazyewok

Well I hope you are right. I'll be going in tomorrow morning just the same.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Its pathetic, we're raising a generation of over indulged, over protected brats who lack most of the social skills required to survive in 'the real world'.

Personally I think its just another manifestation of the interfering, namby pamby, PC do-gooders.

My daughter was raised to protect herself and stand up to bully's - bullying has always been something I've abhorred.
But she was also raised to respect others, respect her elders and to accept responsibility for her own wrong doing.
I think she's turned out pretty ok.

Now its time for my grandson to learn these values.
He's 5 years old and my daughter sent him to a local Catholic Primary School because for some reason Catholic schools tend to put more emphasis on traditional values than most - something I can personally vouch for.

Last school year, my grandson's first, there were a couple of instances where he had reacted physically to bullying from older pupils - the school were told in no uncertain terms that he would continue to do so if similar situations arose in the future and we would have to question the schools inability to prevent bullying.

Imagine my horror this week when my daughter told me that along with other parents she had been to a meeting with my grandson's new teacher who had outlined the 'targets' for pupils during the current school year.
But she also added that the teacher told them that she had discussed with the pupils what rules they should abide by this year?
Pardon?
5 and 6 year old setting their own rules?

The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum!

Anyway, back on track - bullying in any shape or form is inexcusable.
We have to be realistic and accept and acknowledge it happens and if the relevant bodies / authorities are either unable or unwilling to address these issues then they should accept that some people will be prepared to stick up for themselves and others.

Personally I think your daughter should be commended for being prepared to stand up against bullying behaviour and stick up not just for herself but also others.

You should be proud of your daughter.

We must implement anti-bully cops with cameras in the schools ASAP. Then there should be a course for using camera's and recording.