Trump goes left, new childcare subsidies

originally posted by: amazing
This is really one of our big issues as a country. We moved away from the American Stereotype of the big family that helps care for each other or the small rural community or Church that takes care of all of it's members in some way to help them get by.

We've moved away from empathy.

And what that does it it leaves certain families desperate and vulnerable to poverty, crime, drinking problems, drug addictions and who ends up getting hurt? The children, who become more vulnerable to the same. This is the cycle of broken families that we need to break.

At the heart of this isn't a handout, but a hand up to help families become stronger. A single mother or a struggling family living below the poverty line, this is huge.

And yes, it's just one small part. When we stop raising broken children, then we stop making broken families. Broken children have a hard time in school are susceptible to negative peer pressure and don't know how to "Adult" when they grow up.

And this is why we should practice the traditional Conservative values. Self responsibility alone would deter much of the pregnancies because the female won't be dependent on help from anyone but her self, her family, and her friends. People act like taking responsibility for yourself and those you care for is evil. It's not.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: amazing

But you can't mandate empathy.

No but would you rather your tax dollars went to military spending in Israel and war in Iraq for Oil and subsidies to big corporations that shouldn't need our tax dollars or put a little of that into helping families.

That's the problem.

I want to keep my damned money.

I don't want it spent by government.

Yeah, my, me, I, that's all I care about.

originally posted by: Darkmadness
a reply to: Edumakated

single mothers are a scourge on society

You know what the real scourge on society is?

Crappy fathers who can't own their choices and raise kids properly and help take care of their family.

You have some seriously messed up ideas if that's what you really believe.

You shouldn't get so offended. He's right. Making women think they're strong by themselves and don't need no darn tootin man in their life is how we've reached the point we're at now. That's not a dig at women, but the stability of a two parent home is so much more important than a woman thinking she can get along just fine without a man.

a reply to: LSU0408

Are you saying women WANT to live in the projects off of government subsidies?

Sounds like you've never taken a trip to the projects.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: LSU0408

No doubt they are worth every missed hour of sleep...profound joy...but no doubt a struggle and work too. I always said being a new dad was like someone turning up the volume on my life...everything was bigger..the joy, the worry, the responsibility, the bills..everything.

Honestly...in lower income households where they live pay-check to pay-check...or single working moms where the new dad bails...We do need something to help.

And while the 401k bit is a good idea...Lot's of the working poor don't have $20 dollars left after paying the bills, let alone the hundreds or thousands they would need to save to cover the time off after delivering. They live hand to mouth.

I don't really know. I understand where you're coming from and to a degree I agree, but who should take responsibility for a new mother? The mother, the state, the feds, the employer? Decrease government benefits elsewhere to balance out benefits for leave. I don't know.

But it's like the homeless problem. Same thing with maternity leave or government helping families in need.

It actually costs the government more to not to anything. They've proven that with homelessness. in the case of ambulances, and shelters, and emergency room visits and police calls and city workers cleaning up streets and drug addiction etc.

With families when you just let them become broken, you end up paying taxes for Juvinile courts, adult courts, Judges, police, jail time, prison time, welfare for the children etc, etc etc.

Well, I mean, that's true but I don't think maternity pay is going to help or hurt any of that. We need to stop being the babysitters for adults.

a reply to: LSU0408

What makes you think that they want to be single mothers? Dudes leave. Even MARRIED dudes leave. Not the woman's fault.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: LSU0408

What makes you think that they want to be single mothers? Dudes leave. Even MARRIED dudes leave. Not the woman's fault.

I blame single mothers too why not. If what's happening this world makes sense to you than that might make sense as well.

a reply to: Darkmadness

I don't think that's what he meant. If I earn money by sacrificing my time, it is mine. That ownership means I get to decide what to do with it. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to hoard it up in some storehouse and laugh at the poor people who need help... it means I get to decide if I want to give it to a cause or not.

If government decides the causes, that removes my ability to give to causes I want to give to... and that means a corrupt government may shut off funding for causes it doesn't believe in because it, not individuals, make those decisions. We have seen many times that it is far easier for a government, with centralized power and force of law, to become corrupt than it is for the population as a whole, with distributed power and no such force of law, to become corrupt.

I think that's what this issue really comes down to. Do you trust the government or the people to do what's best?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Darkmadness

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: amazing

But you can't mandate empathy.

No but would you rather your tax dollars went to military spending in Israel and war in Iraq for Oil and subsidies to big corporations that shouldn't need our tax dollars or put a little of that into helping families.

That's the problem.

I want to keep my damned money.

I don't want it spent by government.

Yeah, my, me, I, that's all I care about.

You know, if a person works for his money, it shouldn't be taken and spent by the government. All I care about is my family too, and my friends. Can you give me one good reason why I should care about someone I'll never know, someone that will never do anything beneficial for me?

originally posted by: Darkmadness
a reply to: LSU0408

Are you saying women WANT to live in the projects off of government subsidies?

Sounds like you've never taken a trip to the projects.

No, I don't even know how you came up with that out of what I said. And yes, I've been in the projects.

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: amazing
This is really one of our big issues as a country. We moved away from the American Stereotype of the big family that helps care for each other or the small rural community or Church that takes care of all of it's members in some way to help them get by.

We've moved away from empathy.

And what that does it it leaves certain families desperate and vulnerable to poverty, crime, drinking problems, drug addictions and who ends up getting hurt? The children, who become more vulnerable to the same. This is the cycle of broken families that we need to break.

At the heart of this isn't a handout, but a hand up to help families become stronger. A single mother or a struggling family living below the poverty line, this is huge.

And yes, it's just one small part. When we stop raising broken children, then we stop making broken families. Broken children have a hard time in school are susceptible to negative peer pressure and don't know how to "Adult" when they grow up.

And this is why we should practice the traditional Conservative values. Self responsibility alone would deter much of the pregnancies because the female won't be dependent on help from anyone but her self, her family, and her friends. People act like taking responsibility for yourself and those you care for is evil. It's not.

But here's what I'm saying. We have to break that cycle somehow. Helping a mother with some maternity leave is a small part. We can't just all of a sudden say "We need traditional family values" Realistically, how does a single mother who's made some bad decisions because she never "Learned how to Adult". How does that person or that family heal or magically become responsible? I think this is just a good, decent first step.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Oh I totally agree with that.

Here is where we differ...

There is where we want to be and there is where we are.

We need to gradually move into a new paradigm.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: LSU0408

What makes you think that they want to be single mothers? Dudes leave. Even MARRIED dudes leave. Not the woman's fault.

That's not what I said either. It's not the woman's fault (sometimes), it's not your fault, it's not my fault. Usually the guy leaves because he can't handle it. Where, exactly does this become my problem? I've got my own kids and family to care for.

originally posted by: Darkmadness

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: LSU0408

What makes you think that they want to be single mothers? Dudes leave. Even MARRIED dudes leave. Not the woman's fault.

I blame single mothers too why not. If what's happening this world makes sense to you than that might make sense as well.

I think you're getting too emotional about this.

originally posted by: LSU0408
Where, exactly does this become my problem?

When you were born and became part of the human race.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: amazing
This is really one of our big issues as a country. We moved away from the American Stereotype of the big family that helps care for each other or the small rural community or Church that takes care of all of it's members in some way to help them get by.

We've moved away from empathy.

And what that does it it leaves certain families desperate and vulnerable to poverty, crime, drinking problems, drug addictions and who ends up getting hurt? The children, who become more vulnerable to the same. This is the cycle of broken families that we need to break.

At the heart of this isn't a handout, but a hand up to help families become stronger. A single mother or a struggling family living below the poverty line, this is huge.

And yes, it's just one small part. When we stop raising broken children, then we stop making broken families. Broken children have a hard time in school are susceptible to negative peer pressure and don't know how to "Adult" when they grow up.

And this is why we should practice the traditional Conservative values. Self responsibility alone would deter much of the pregnancies because the female won't be dependent on help from anyone but her self, her family, and her friends. People act like taking responsibility for yourself and those you care for is evil. It's not.

But here's what I'm saying. We have to break that cycle somehow. Helping a mother with some maternity leave is a small part. We can't just all of a sudden say "We need traditional family values" Realistically, how does a single mother who's made some bad decisions because she never "Learned how to Adult". How does that person or that family heal or magically become responsible? I think this is just a good, decent first step.

True, but the values need to be integrated again. We didn't take a nose dive until family values became a thing of the past. Families made it all the time before there was help because they knew if they didn't then they'd perish. I agree that help is good, but becoming dependent is the downfall.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: LSU0408
Where, exactly does this become my problem?

When you were born and became part of the human race.

Spare me that baloney. I've taken responsibility for all of my actions, and I've paid all my dues even when it meant sacrificing something I love. My parents have showed up to Christmas parties with cookies made out of apple sauce because that's all they had to cook with (when me and my sister were 1 and 2) and couldn't show up empty handed. They never asked for help or got any from anyone other than family once or twice. You're not born into this world bearing the responsibility of everyone else.

a reply to: Darkmadness

Oh, I agree completely!

We didn't make the change from way back when until now overnight, and we certainly can't expect to make a similar change overnight either. That's why I am torn on this issue. We do need to help mothers, especially single mothers, but at the same time we want to climb out of the hole, not further into it.

I like what another poster pointed out earlier... some of the most successful companies do already offer these benefits, and I think we should support that. I think incentives to business to change their practices would be preferable to direct government assistance. We already do have some programs here to help poor mothers who don't have these benefits. WIC is a program that helps poor mothers-to-be with prenatal care, delivery expenses, and then restrictive food subsidies (formula, milk, cheese, and other basic needs for healthy child nutrition). It works quite well. It doesn't cover all of a baby's expenses (diapers for instance), but it helps.

The government simply can't be the be-all end-all of assistance. It has to step back, gradually admittedly, and become the incentive rather than the provider. And that's going to take out-of-the-box thinking.

And that, in turn, is going to take real leaders, not the political pundits we have listened to for so long.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: amazing
This is really one of our big issues as a country. We moved away from the American Stereotype of the big family that helps care for each other or the small rural community or Church that takes care of all of it's members in some way to help them get by.

We've moved away from empathy.

And what that does it it leaves certain families desperate and vulnerable to poverty, crime, drinking problems, drug addictions and who ends up getting hurt? The children, who become more vulnerable to the same. This is the cycle of broken families that we need to break.

At the heart of this isn't a handout, but a hand up to help families become stronger. A single mother or a struggling family living below the poverty line, this is huge.

And yes, it's just one small part. When we stop raising broken children, then we stop making broken families. Broken children have a hard time in school are susceptible to negative peer pressure and don't know how to "Adult" when they grow up.

And this is why we should practice the traditional Conservative values. Self responsibility alone would deter much of the pregnancies because the female won't be dependent on help from anyone but her self, her family, and her friends. People act like taking responsibility for yourself and those you care for is evil. It's not.

But here's what I'm saying. We have to break that cycle somehow. Helping a mother with some maternity leave is a small part. We can't just all of a sudden say "We need traditional family values" Realistically, how does a single mother who's made some bad decisions because she never "Learned how to Adult". How does that person or that family heal or magically become responsible? I think this is just a good, decent first step.

True, but the values need to be integrated again. We didn't take a nose dive until family values became a thing of the past. Families made it all the time before there was help because they knew if they didn't then they'd perish. I agree that help is good, but becoming dependent is the downfall.

But remember that before government stepped in to help, children could work in sweatshops, there were no unemployment benefits etc.

I agree that dependence on government welfare is bad. But everyone needs a hand at some point. What do you do when there is no extended family support, how do you pull yourself out of poverty. There are ways but it's certainly not easy.

a reply to: LSU0408

As society has changed, the economy stalled, etc and you are trying to equate the nuclear family of yesterday to today's situations? Good luck with THAT baloney.