Official lies from Ashcroft

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posted on Jun, 20 2003 @ 06:39 PM
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It seems that Ashcroft is looking to make the big media into the new Ministry of Truth.

QUEENSTOWN, Md., June 19 Attorney General John Ashcroft called on the press and television today to dispel fears about the sweeping antiterrorism law known as the U.S.A. Patriot Act, which was enacted after the attacks at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Addressing two dozen editors, publishers, television executives and others, Mr. Ashcroft said, "We need the help of the news industry, the fourth estate, to inform citizens about the constitutional tools and methods being used in the war against terror. We need the media's help, for instance, in portraying accurately the U.S.A. Patriot Act."

He told a conference on "Journalism and Homeland Security," convened by the Aspen Institute, a nonpartisan policy research group, that complaints and misunderstandings about the act were so widespread that "I heard a fellow said his car wouldn't start the other day, and he blamed the Patriot Act."

In fact, he said, "Over the past 20 months the Patriot Act has become a critical reason for our success in the war against terrorists, stopping further attacks in the United States."

In particular, Mr. Ashcroft sought to quiet concern about the government's access to library records and its use of so-called roving wiretaps on terrorism suspects.

www.infowars.com...




posted on Jun, 20 2003 @ 06:44 PM
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As U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft prepares his Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, or Patriot Act II, the impacts of the initial Patriot Act are still being debated in Congress.

The American Library Association (ALA), along with groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union, have teamed with senators and representatives in hopes of limiting a law enforcement agency's ability to "manipulate the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution," said Lynne Bradley, director of the American Library Association's government relations.

For the librarians, the ability to protect a reader's confidentiality remains a high priority. The ALA and the Canadian Librarians Association are meeting Saturday to discuss concerns about sharing information with law enforcement.

"We're not for thwarting any investigation," Bradley said. "We want to do the right thing for the country and the law. We just want to know what these broad amounts of information from a large amount of individuals is going toward."

www.summitdaily.com.../20030620/NEWS/306200102



posted on Jun, 20 2003 @ 08:17 PM
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Who cares???

They are trying to find out what books we read. Is that so bad???

Where is the crime in that. I remember this law called freedom of information. They look up who you are and what you read, what is the big deal.

It is not like they can put you in jail for reading a book.



posted on Jun, 20 2003 @ 08:22 PM
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Finding out which books people read can be VERY valuable in singling out enemies of the state.

Lets see what i've bought lately
1984, New harry potter (tomorrow), Janes guide to tanks and combat vehicles, Natural Disasters, Tom Clancys SSN

Right, so that labels me as an enemy of the state who practices magic and terrorism against military resources whilst also studying military tactics.

Oh, and i have good taste for liking clancy



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 12:37 PM
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abraham you need to watch alex jones's 911 road to tyranny to see how the police state will treat you for having certain books.

Great post Dragon!



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 03:24 PM
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What are they going to police???

My knowledge???

So what if they know what I read. I don't care. I have nothing to hide. Why should I???

It isn't like reading is a crime. I will go ahead and admit it right now, if I could get my hand on any top secret files then I would read them. What are they going to do, put me in jail for admitting this???

NO. They can't. They can't do anything. They can harass me all they want, they still want stop me from reading. Hitler burned books. Is that what they are going to do???

Probably not. If they do, then they will have people like me jumping in the fire to save them. What are they going to do then???

Keep me from getting them back???

Kill me???

Come on. This is just more Anti jargon against our government. Personally I am getting sick and tired of hearing these lies from paraniod conspiracy theorists. In reality nothing bad is going to happen. The only reason they do this is so they can profile people. I have no fears in their profiling of me. I am not a spy, nor am I a terrorist. Only terrorists and enemies of the state should have something to hide.





Wake up. This is just information awareness. They have every right to know these things just as we have every right to read what they find out.




Abraham



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
Who cares???

They are trying to find out what books we read. Is that so bad???

They look up who you are and what you read, what is the big deal.

It is not like they can put you in jail for reading a book.


AV, when you know what the peoples are reading, you know what they have in their minds.


It's a commies-nazis behaviour. If you don't understand it, it's pretty sad.



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 04:08 PM
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NO don't get me wrong. I understand that it is cloy, but I don't think that it should get my nerves all out of wack. My point is this:

This is America we are talking about. They can scope us out all they want but so as long as we don't act up than they can't do anything to us. Not to mention there are other people out there who are more important to scope out other than people like you and me. They want to be able to use this tool so they can profile. You said it yourself. You said that if they know what you read then they know what you think.

I think just fine. They may think otherwise, but so as long as I obey the law I should be just fine. If they turn into Nazi's trust me I will smell it a mile away. Most of my grandparents family were killed by Nazi's. If they ever let themselves be know again in this country or in any other then they are going to have hell to face. I am not the only one who has a desire to do away with Nazis. Nor am I afraid to admit it.

Don't worry, if the Nazis even poke their heads out of their foxholes then they are going to get their heads blown off. I won't be the only one shooting either. I would hope that you and all the rest of the freedom lovers out there would be right there with me.



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix


AV, when you know what the peoples are reading, you know what they have in their minds.


It's a commies-nazis behaviour. If you don't understand it, it's pretty sad.


Books are very powerful. The Bible and the Koran are books. So were Mien Kampf and Das Kapital. Books can be dangerous in some hands. But we should all have the right to read what we want if we are able to interpret them without causing harm to others.

So I can see where you're coming from but I don't entirely agree with you.
The reason they can't read your mind is that you use your own imagination when reading a book.

For example, in the last couple of weeks, I've bought 3 new copies of books that I have read in the past - 1984, A Clockwork Orange and Brave New World.

You could say that these are all political books and I need keeping an eye on. But the problem doesn't take into account my opinion. I can form a totally different view about a book than somebody else. I might read the political doctrines within them, but nobody can tell if I agree or disagree with them.
That's the beauty of a book - it let's you use your imagination.

The only worry is for those who tend to have reading tastes verging on the irresponsible. If you order a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook, maybe you do need looking at. After all, this is nothing more than a technical book on how to make weapons. Why would anyone want that? You could say it's just gathering knowledge but in my opinion, if that is the case you should be smart enough to know that you are taking a risk and that normal society would always wonder why you want a book like that anyway.

The Communist and Nazi attitude to books was loathesome, but there is a big difference between burning your books and just keeping an eye on what you read.

I don't see this as a major problem.
If you get a book like Anarchist Cookbook purely because you want to create weapons to harm others you are irresponsible anyway. You deserve to get caught.
But if you buy that book purely for knowledge, you are normally going to be the type of person who can rationally explain his innocence to any authority that questions you.

I will read what I want. Nobody can stop me unless they can physically stop me from reading them. If there ever is some sinister department that pays me a visit in the future, I will walk away smiling.



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 06:34 PM
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The Communist and Nazi attitude to books was loathesome, but there is a big difference between burning your books and just keeping an eye on what you read. Posted by Leveller?

Are you so sure about that?

What you are missing here is that the cabal has gotten a bit more sophisticated than the Nazis of 50 years past. They are perfectly aware that to outright ban books that oppose thier political viewpoint would naturally cause considerable popular upheaval.

They have found that by simply tracking what people read or watch on TV (anyone ever read about the cable systems that log what you watch on your cable box?) they have a good idea of what your political apptitudes and your personal "threat profile" might be. This information is further used, same as the channel surfing information that is sold to advertising companies: the Cabal uses it as demographics information to figure where they need to plot and plant future propaganda to best influence the people.

The second reason for tracking ones use of books would be in order to slowly make certain books or subjects fall into popular disfavor through linking them to upcoming terrorism.

For example, after the ATF/Waco Massacre, much was made of the fact that copies of the "underground radical militia publication Shotgun News" was found in the compound. (Shotgun News is in fact a firearms trade/advertising publication, similar to Autotrader magazine. It is available for $3.99 at the magazine rack of most WalMarts and other book stores)



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 06:41 PM
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"For example, after the ATF/Waco Massacre, much was made of the fact that copies of the "underground radical militia publication Shotgun News" was found in the compound. (Shotgun News is in fact a firearms trade/advertising publication, similar to Autotrader magazine. It is available for $3.99 at the magazine rack of most WalMarts and other book stores)"----Dragonrider



Abraham Says>>>>>

Yeah while that may be the truth it still doesn't make one a criminal for reading such publications. All it really does is causes others to frown upon the publications. Trust me I already get enough bad looks at Barnes and Noble with all those books I buy on terrorism and international politics. This is nothing new, nor is it nothing to fear, not unless one has something to hide. Am I right or am I wrong???



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:04 PM
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DragonRider. I see your theory as leading to censorship of publications rather than as a threat to individual people. But it would be a long, slow process and I believe whoever is in charge is aiming for something better by then.

I guess I can live with some censorship if it is the right kind of censorship - especially if that censorship is in regard to my safety. As long as I don't gain ignorance from their methods, I'm not worried.
But with information so freely available today it's going to be hard to stifle out our thirst to read.

I don't see censorship as the reason behind this move though.

I believe that by being able to tell what people read, who they are and where they live, the government is merely gathering a database for information. They are studying what, in literature, can cause negativity.
Hopefully they will use their results from this study wisely and adjust our societies accordingly rather than censor literature.

By the way. We have always had literature censored in our societies, but we have also been given a lot more information. I can live with what we've got for now.



[Edited on 22-6-2003 by Leveller]



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:11 PM
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I agree with both of you. I think that they will use this as a form of censorship but that won't be the only option. Like Leveller said they will also use this to profile. However I think that the profiling they do won't be to compile databases on us but to merely scan information on potential suspects in investigations and to use it for evidence against those they wish to prosecute. In fact I think that their main motives for using this option are to gather evidence against the ones they are after. That is why I don't fear anything. I have nothing to fear because I have nothing to hide.



What about you???



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:20 PM
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Thoughtcrime anyone?




posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:23 PM
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David, dont laugh, it is becoming a serious reality.

With the new technology that is being developed, I see the day when it will literally be possible to bust someone literally for thinking of doing something. Hell, might be something like Minority Report.

Also, Operation Mindcrime (Queensryche) was an awesome album!



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:25 PM
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Hmm, does 'Gattica' come to mind anyone?

regards
seekerof



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:25 PM
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Yeah it is scary, but theres only a tiny tiny percent of us who are mentally disciplined to the point where they can filter what they think.

And remember the end....

I love you BigBrother



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:43 PM
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Has anyone read Farenheight 451?

I just finished it, and it dealt with the effects that books can have on a society. In the particular society in question, almost all books are outlawed and "firemen" come with flame throwers to destroy the houses and libraries of anyone possesing such illicit material.

And Abe, it matters very much if they can track what books you check out. You are a fan of David Icke, right? they can target you for having checked out books that are "anti-American." If you seem to show an intrest in biographies of Trotsky and Lenin, and have had to pay several overdue fines on copies of The Communist Manifesto then they might have a camera trained on your house and, going by more parts of the patriot act, your phone tapped. They might decide that you are a security problem and should be detained for questioning. Can you consider what effect an event like that could have on how people see you and your life? Maybe jobs will be refused to you because people might think you are "an enemy of the state."

This is bad, very bad.

XAOS



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by Abraham Virtue

I have nothing to hide.
What about you???



Not that I know of!!!



The theory that they could be using a profile for prosecuting criminals is a good one, but it could go much deeper than that.

It will give them a wealth of information that can be gleaned from the minds of those who threaten our lives, when they are caught. If they are clever enough to devise such a scheme, then they are probably clever enough to be able to use that information wisely.


This database is going to take years to assemble. Its not going to happen overnight.



I don't see this as a tool against terrorists from outside our borders. Most of them don't get their books from our bookstores and there is a probability that they didn't get their ideas from physically reading a book themselves. That means that they are watching our own society.

I would guess that this is to be used as a database for research on us.



posted on Jun, 21 2003 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Abraham Virtue

I have nothing to hide.
What about you???

Thats not the point. I have the right to read, research, browse, or investigate ANYTHING I wish, as guaranteed to me by the freedom of speech/freedom of the press per the United States Constitution.

I should have full access to any and all sources of information for any research I find peaks my interest, without having to explain my motives to anyone, and without having my reading material evaluated for my personal "threat assessment"





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