It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

F-35 May Never Be Ready for Combat

page: 1
7
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:17 AM
link   
F-35 May Never Be Ready for Combat

Well this is a pretty ugly article.

It's a long read but it goes into quite a bit of detail.

I'm not sure what to believe here. It seems like the article is deliberately slamming the plane. However I don't know how much of this is true or not.

What does everyone else think? True or crap?



Testing Report Contradicts Air Force Leadership’s Rosy Pronouncements

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program is the most expensive procurement program in Pentagon history. It’s been plagued by schedule delays, gross cost overruns, and a slew of underwhelming performance reviews. Last month the Air Force declared its variant “ready for combat,” and most press reports lauded this as a signal that the program had turned a corner. But a memo issued from the Pentagon’s top testing official, based largely upon the Air Force’s own test data, showed that the Air Force’s declaration was wildly premature.

Dr. Michael Gilmore’s latest memorandum is damning. The F-35 program has derailed to the point where it “is actually not on a path toward success, but instead on a path toward failing to deliver the full Block 3F capabilities for which the Department is paying almost $400 billion.” The 16-page memo, first reported by Tony Capaccio at Bloomberg and then by others, details just how troubled this program is: years behind schedule and failing to deliver even the most basic capabilities taxpayers, and the men and women who will entrust their lives to it, have been told to expect.




posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:19 AM
link   
a reply to: grey580

Depends on whether one is a warmonger or not.

Whether one sees the military juggernaut for what it really is, or not.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:30 AM
link   
a reply to: intrptr

What does that have to do with the article?

Let's not stray off topic.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:35 AM
link   
Patience grasshopper.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:46 AM
link   
a reply to: grey580

The OT&E office is known for occasionally injecting opinion into their "findings". Their previous reports occasionally stated that it would take two or three times as long to fix problems as it actually did.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 08:57 AM
link   
a reply to: grey580


Perhaps the best perspective on the issue of a country's arms production is the amount of money that went into the national economy. The spinning up of the wheel of that economy by building even a senseless device or program has many spin offs and keeps that economy afloat even when other aspects are dismal. Better yet, much of that money comes back in so many taxes paid to government that it isn't funny. So, it is self-perpetuating to a large degree. You hardly can recognize that the system is failing.

It is a shame, however, that the elite, both individuals and companies of all sizes come away with large portions of that $400 billion while the average American is lucky to just have a job from it.

edit on 13-9-2016 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 09:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Ahh... they doom and gloom alot.

so take this with a grain of salt.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 10:06 AM
link   
i read much of the article and this comes to mind. the f35 program is an intentional public deception and a placeholder for some deep black project, just emerging as the space truck project by boeing and lockheed. it was never meant to succeed, just keep the public diverted.
Just like NASAs space shuttle, apollo moon, space station projects. Keep in mind paper clip nazis (von Braun et al) ran the program, while their boss, general Kammler, disappeared with the plans for true space flight.
Now the space truck makes no sense unless the 2nd stage rocket is refueled while orbiting earth. but wait...you gonna launch another heavy lift with the fuel? and leave its 2nd stage in orbit. Forever? Not.
So Boeing Lockheed must be using another propulsion system not using hydrogen carbon and oxygen. Re enter Kammler.

The death of the f35 is based on 24 million lines of code and Khibiney.. the Russian electronic warfare gizmo. The stealth of the f35 is based, like the f22, on multiple antenna arrays (like 30) in the skin that actively spoof tracking radar.. and when they are taken out and the software driving the spoofers, it is naked. and likely guidance and control systems are locked,



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 10:08 AM
link   
a reply to: grey580

IIRC they said the C model would take a couple years and total aft fuselage redesign to allow it to catch a wire after the first test. It took like a year and a fairly minor change and has barely missed a cable since.

They're professional bean counters, so yeah, it should be listened to but not taken as gospel.
edit on 9/13/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 10:10 AM
link   
a reply to: darkstar57

That Russian gizmo Didnt shut down a AEGIS system. Its a total Lie.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 10:13 AM
link   
a reply to: darkstar57

No. The F-35 is succeeding and doing just fine. The Khibiny isn't the all powerful system that some websites want you to believe. It's a self defense jamming system, and low powered. It's not going to kill an F-35, or an Aegis. It's better than anything they've put out to date, but jamming is going to follow the same rules for everyone including power levels.

Both the F-22 and F-35 rely on passive measures for most of their stealth. How is Khibiny gong to strip the RAM away?


edit on 9/13/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/13/2016 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 10:58 AM
link   

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: intrptr

What does that have to do with the article?

Let's not stray off topic.

Defense spending on over budget, over engineered pet projects, military branches competing against each other to fill roles, that s*** never stops. If you lived through the 60s, 70s and 80s, when they still made the rivalry and waste public in the mass media, you'd know how ridiculous it sounds to be hearing about this, one_more_time.

Another over priced under capable hangar queen.

Meh.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 11:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: grey580
F-35 May Never Be Ready for Combat

Well this is a pretty ugly article.

It's a long read but it goes into quite a bit of detail.

I'm not sure what to believe here. It seems like the article is deliberately slamming the plane. However I don't know how much of this is true or not.

What does everyone else think? True or crap?


Testing Report Contradicts Air Force Leadership’s Rosy Pronouncements
The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program is the most expensive procurement program in Pentagon history. It’s been plagued by schedule delays, gross cost overruns, and a slew of underwhelming performance reviews. Last month the Air Force declared its variant “ready for combat,” and most press reports lauded this as a signal that the program had turned a corner. But a memo issued from the Pentagon’s top testing official, based largely upon the Air Force’s own test data, showed that the Air Force’s declaration was wildly premature.

Dr. Michael Gilmore’s latest memorandum is damning. The F-35 program has derailed to the point where it “is actually not on a path toward success, but instead on a path toward failing to deliver the full Block 3F capabilities for which the Department is paying almost $400 billion.” The 16-page memo, first reported by Tony Capaccio at Bloomberg and then by others, details just how troubled this program is: years behind schedule and failing to deliver even the most basic capabilities taxpayers, and the men and women who will entrust their lives to it, have been told to expect.


Here's a bio on Dr Gilmore,

www.defense.gov...



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 03:52 PM
link   
a reply to: yuppa the su24 made multiple low attack passes over a destroyer with around 50 anti aircraft missiles in a combat zone. so why did not some swabbie fire one? did a total lie keep their fingers off the trigger???? and where did you get your info from within the russian military that Khibiny does not work??? I read the views over on veterans today...they seemed to have some pretty good details, like the Cook heading immediatly to a port in rumania...



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 04:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58 Here is why i think they do not rely on passive measures. the wiki article on the f22 indicates 30 antenna arrays imbedded in the skin.... Not including the attack radars. Now even such a primitive handbook as the ARRL on antennas makes it clear that every antenna transmits and receives, and can be tuned to other frequencies. and if an antenna is disconnected, it still receives then transmits its favored freq. so if the stealth software listening to those 30 antennas and tuning those antennas fails, the fxx is naked as a jaybird.
and the pic i saw of the Khibiniy model with the front dome off showed 20 waveguides that could readily handle a megawatt pulse.
ah.. RAM means what?
my point is that FXX cannot be passive stealth if the antenna array controller fails. simple physics.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 04:35 PM
link   
a reply to: darkstar57

First off, from what I've read, the Khibiny doesn't fit on the Su-24. It was designed for the -34, and fits on the wingtip rails. Second, they didn't fire because it wasn't a threat. Contrary to popular opinion, the US military isn't made up of trigger happy yahoos.

Veteran's Today is a joke. Even if it was a halfway decent source, if you follow it back to the original, every article about this goes back to one website.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 04:38 PM
link   
a reply to: darkstar57

Uhm, you do realize that thru have things like datalinks, and radios, and other things that transmit, right? All of those need antennas to transmit from.

Over 95% of the stealth on either aircraft is from the shape of the aircraft, and the skin and is entirely passive. There is no way too stop that from working remotely.

RAM- Radar Absorbant Material



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 06:20 PM
link   
Stealth is as Zaphod notes, shape and use of RAM on various parts of the airframe. Shaping can make up to 90% of an airframes stealth. RAM can help with areas that cannot be shaped, seams, etc. An active system by nature gives off signals that can be detected (The Phoenix missile had a home on jam mode for instance).

Modern aircraft have tons of send and receive antennas for IFF, JTIDS (Joint Tactical Information Distribution System link) etc etc etc.

A recent AWST article talked about detection ranges and against a modern SAM system like the S-400 you were looking at a 13 miles for the F-22 and 21 for the F-35. By comparison a Typhoon or F-18E could be seen at 100-140 miles. For an airborne radar system like a SU-35 is 22 and 36. However, the F-22 and F-35 would see them way before they showed up on the SU's radar. Not to mention the narrow bean the fighter would use.

As far as the Khibiny system is concerned I doubt highly that it shut down the can's systems.

1) I'm skeptical (but not an electrical engineer) that a fighter sized airframe was capable of generating and transmitting enough energy to jam the SPY 1-D radar that can transmit and focus 4-6 MW of power and dwell that on a target. From 150 miles out? Maybe but not close in. Even an F-22 with all of stealth will be seen if it gets close enough (see the point above)

2) If the SPY system was up and radiating at full power during that close pass and the operator dwelled it on the -24 they could have literally fried its electronics (super Russian jammer or not) in effect a kill

3) peacetime conditions. The SPY was not radiating full power

4) If the Russians developed this Aegis killer, why waste its knowledge on a few TopGUN esq passes of a destroyer?

edit on 9/13/16 by FredT because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 09:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: darkstar57
a reply to: yuppa the su24 made multiple low attack passes over a destroyer with around 50 anti aircraft missiles in a combat zone. so why did not some swabbie fire one? did a total lie keep their fingers off the trigger???? and where did you get your info from within the russian military that Khibiny does not work??? I read the views over on veterans today...they seemed to have some pretty good details, like the Cook heading immediatly to a port in rumania...




Zaphod is correct. ANd the TOTAL LIE was the Russian GIZMO shutting off a AEGIS SYSTEM not that they didnt have a ECM system.

Also The Russian Aircraft was not a threat. And veterans today...lol. they exaggerate alot it seems.



posted on Sep, 14 2016 @ 02:17 AM
link   


Director of Operational Test and Evaluation

Says it all...



new topics

top topics



 
7
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join