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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You by your own heart are the one who adds emotions to any of my posts, seeing you do not know my heart, you are not seeing me face to face, you have not body language or any intonation of speech so any emotional i.e. condescending tone is given by your mind. Try reading it with a loving tone, as I try to do yours but can't get one sentence in seeing your hatred of Jesus' ransom for your soul and the holy words of God.


I don't get the feeling your messages all have a loving tone, I've read a few only but I don't see that tone of love you imagine.

You just accused someone of hating Jesus' "ransom" for their soul.

Not believing in atonement by proxy via human sacrifice of the perfect man, Jesus, is not akin to hatred of Jesus death which you consider some form of ransom for your sins because you can't focus on anything but sin.

It is not the crucifixion that gave man the Wisdom needed to enter the Kingdom of God, it's what Jesus said we should DO that is important, we should be like him, do as he says and does to a T.

Instead of learning the message of the life of Jesus, the light, you focus on his death, the dark, and believe it is to your benefit that he died. But he didn't die, he went to heaven so there is no sacrifice there just temporary suffering, maybe.

"Faith... without good works...Is no faith."



I am done arguing I have shown through out this thread the error of not rightly dividing the word of truth,


I think you err in thinking that dividing the word of truth is a concept that Christianity is concerned with.

What does it even mean to divide the Bible?

How do you know what sections apply to you and what sections do not?

Does that mean there are 2 divisions in Christianity that share some, but not all, of scripture?

Pardon me for saying but what a most ridiculous idea, dividing the Bible. I would gather one book is for the whole religion and not divided into "OK, Samaritans get the Torah and we will take the Prophets, except..."

So and so gets these prophets while who's it gets the minor prophets, and the priests get Deuteronomy.

Were this fantasy of your's a reality we would have Bible versions that have different books besides the Canonical Apocrypha of the Catholic Church being the only example.

The Bible, like God, is one and indivisible. The 66 (not including Catholic Apocrypha) will always be one book, the Bible, and has been since the fourth century besides the Protestant removal of scripture, unchanged.

Although the exception is the Epistles of Barnabas and 1 Clement are in the oldest Bibles or Bible in the case of Clement, which survived in one lone copy in Greek and Ethiopians still use both I believe.



and in adding to the word and improperly adding scriptures together to create a blasphemous error. You lady Matrix, would do good just to go back through all of my posts especially those that deal with the word of God and the error you , Molocchino and SethTsaddik, who was also earlier on known under the ATS user account name LucianusXVII, laid forth against Paul.

No matter what anyone said, in the video or your own privately interpreted false doctrines using the word of God.


OK that's judgmental.

Your interpretation is yours and doesn't dictate others interpretation, which were meant to be done privately.

When it comes to false doctrines Paul has the crown and is king of false interpretation and false doctrines CLAIMED to be received via private revelations from Jesus, who had risen without knowing or meeting Paul.

Probably why you think dividing the Bible is a thing people do is because you realize that nothing of Jesus is in Paul's epistles but they are in the Bible so you believe Paul actually did have revelations that were radically different and sometimes even opposed to what Jesus taught.

Obviously they are not from Jesus who would have had to have been a liar if Paul was telling the truth, because everything he taught means or "added nothing to" Paul who rejected the teachings of James and Peter, John.

It's why the Spirit banned him from preaching in Asia and they rejected him (Asian Churches).



I came into this thread to defend Jesus Christ choice of Paul


He didn't choose Paul, Paul chose Paul.

Jesus chose 11 of the 12 apostles and God/the Spirit chose Matthias, one of two eligible humans left at the time, filling the final spot.

Paul SAYS he talked to Jesus.

Why should anyone believe a miscreant such as Paul?



and his use of him to further expand on his doctrines for the church today. I tried as meekly as I could to show all of you that you were wrong. I was attacked, cursed at and treated shamefully by you all. I can only pray and hope that you come to repentance of this thy folly


Translation: Agree completely with Mr John.

Or you will go to hell.

Typical persecution complex, I am sure you were so noble and a complete gentleman (obvious sarcasm) and you're not just saying so to look like a victim, of what who knows, but I think I will have a look and see if you are telling the truth.




2Tim 2:25-26 In meekness] instructing those ]that oppose themselves if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.Please note you all are not opposing me as you all are opposing yourselves.
:

I oppose your ideology, personally you don't rate opponent status as you are in the D League, AAA, the minors.

Am I opposing God though?

Not in the least amount. That doesn't make sense.

You are just not enlightened enough to see what the world is showing you.
edit on 2-1-2017 by TerriblePhoenix because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: TerriblePhoenix
You've only been a member for 2 days come back after you read all my posts in this thread.

Or are you SethTsaddik/Gnosisisfaith back from the ATS grave?

Which I lay odds you are from your Posting MO, i.e. one of your methods of cutting out of context of my words to deride me thereof.

You tell me I am not in your league and yet you don't know what God means by

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Well all I can say is

Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Matthew 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
These are true words, yeah, pure words, God given words to all men. Now apply them, and seek out that which you wonder in amazement about.


edit on 2-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






Please note you all are not opposing me as you all are opposing yourselves.


Nope. Just Paul.



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

So far all I have seen from you and others as well as the op video was scriptures out of context and misused to create a damnable heresy.

Anyone can study and see that Jesus Christ started Christianity when he called Paul and by revelation and inspiration expounded on the teaching of Jesus for the church today.

The only ones who can't see the truth, have problems with the Bible and things in it to begin with, and are looking for excuses for disobedience and sin, like you yourself have shown throughout this thread, when you denied scripture truths of Jesus himself as a ransom for many, didn't practice Jesus teaching when challenged too, and do not like the man over woman order God has placed in the Bible, because you are a woman.

My wife would have lots to say against all you believe about God being misogynous. As He has given her ministry to do, power in prayer, and many miracles have happened through her prayers. And all because she follows God's order and not her own, as you do.


edit on 2-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






So far all I have seen from you and others as well as the op video was scriptures out of context and misused to create a damnable heresy.


Chester, why do you think so many people (who actually admire and love Jesus), have rejected Paul? Do you even have an answer for that besides it's "danmable heresy"?
Because, the way we see it, God (the TRUE Most HIGH GOD), wanted us to listen to HIS SON. Not Paul. Do you even realize that the true 12 apostles (aside from Judas) ONLY WROTE what Jesus taught? They had nothing of their own to add.
Then, here comes Saul of Tarsus (aka Paul) and puts his own spin on the gospel, not only calling it his OWN, but also putting down those whom Jesus actually CHOSE to be His followers and disciples. Basically, they were His students/pupils. There was a reason for that. It was because Jesus was entrusted with a mission. His mission was to reveal to the Jewish people that the "god" they were following was an imposter. Not only that, but Jesus knew that He was going to murdered for doing so. Yes, His life became a ransom for many. Many who? The WHOLE FREAKING WORLD!
Why? Because the world has been in the grip of a dictator, masquerading as the ONE TRUE GOD.
When Jesus was murdered, something really significant happened. I'm sure I don't even understand the ramifications of it all. But what I do know is this....what He did was so magnificent and important, that those who choose to hear HIM and follow HIM (not PAUL), will find eternal life.
Yet what do we have today? We have a mess...and that mess is called "the church". WHY is it a mess? Because an IMPOSTER apostle is at the head front of it. Whenever you have a liar leading the pastors, who lead "the flock"...you're going to see rotten fruit.
Is there rotten fruit in the church? Be honest now.




Anyone can study and see that Jesus Christ started Christianity when he called Paul and by revelation and inspiration expounded on the teaching of Jesus for the church today.


No Chester.......HERE are the one's Jesus chose.....

We find the names of the 12 apostles in Matthew 10:2-4, Mark 3:14-19, and Luke 6:13-16:
And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them twelve, whom he named apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter, and Andrew his brother, and James and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas [also called Thaddeus or Jude] the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
(edited to add....MATTHIAS was chosen by the Holy Spirit to replace Judas).

So, you have Jesus (on a mission), who is TOLD BY HIS FATHER who to pick. Remember now....Jesus did NOTHING on His own initiative. Everything He did, He gave the credit back to His Father.

And you want to think that Jesus would take HIS OWN initiative....and pick a man who was out capturing and killing believers in Jesus, to take a DIFFERENT gospel than HIS OWN, to the world?

Hey, I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you ,too.




The only ones who can't see the truth, have problems with the Bible and things in it to begin with, and are looking for excuses for disobedience and sin, like you yourself have shown throughout this thread, when you denied scripture truths of Jesus himself as a ransom for many, didn't practice Jesus teaching when challenged too, and do not like the man over woman order God has placed in the Bible, because you are a woman.


I didn't practice Jesus' teaching when challenged to?? What? Cause I didn't send you my whole livelihood when you asked? Hey, what part of Jesus' teaching's were you practicing, Chester? By the way, did you let everyone know on here that I actually pm'ed you and offered you money...even via paypal if you didn't feel comfortable giving out your address? Did you even respond to me? Nope. You were only trying to make it LOOK like I wasn't following Jesus' teachings, while you can't seem to do anything but go by Paul's.


So, because you believe the Bible as "inerrant and infallible", you now have the market cornered on TRUTH?
Why does it always have to be because of "disobedience and sin", for the reason one doesn't believe Paul is legit or the Bible is "inerrant"?
I wonder if Akragon is in disobedience and sin? Or all the other folks out there who are genuinely good people, yet don't hold to the Bible like a tick stuck on a bloodhound.
Gee Chester....what you are basically saying is, "if you don't accept EVERY SINGLE WORD OUT OF THIS BOOK, YOU ARE IN SIN AND DISOBEDIENT".
What, are you psychic or something? Do you know every person's heart on this planet? Their deeds? Their desires? Their hopes and dreams, hurts and failures, losses, etc????
Are you GOD?
Cause that's what Paul inspires you to act like....a judgmental "god" (emphasis on the "little g").





My wife would have lots to say against all you believe about God being misogynous. As He has given her ministry to do, power in prayer, and many miracles have happened through her prayers. And all because she follows God's order and not her own, as you do.


Well, I'm happy for her. I could tell you some answered prayer stories too, Chester. Too many to go into here. (and those are just my own). As a matter of fact, I've seen "GOD" answer prayers for all kinds of people. Not just wives who stay in their "proper place". Nor just "Christians" who can't seem to see outside the box of their Pauline religion.
Guess you'd have a hard time explaining that though, wouldn't you?
OR....maybe GOD is waaaaay bigger than YHWH....or Paul's definition of Him. Crazy stuff there, huh?




edit on 2-1-2017 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

So far it is small amount anyway and if you, Gnosisisfaith, Molocchino, SethTsaddik, and his new identity are an example of those who you claim are lots, (I am at this point not going to say what is on my heart out of sympathy for your poor souls).

1) you deny the accuracy of God's word
2) you deny he can and has preserved them as stated in Psalm 12
3) you deny Christ who was a ransom for you
4) you twist the scriptures to your own destruction and want others to follow you
5) you cuss and swear as bad as sailors on shore leave
6) you take verses of the Bible out of their context and join them together and create damnable heresies
7) you spit in God's face as if he is powerless to do what he says he will and has done

and that is just to name a few things.

I have lived and operated outside the box for over 20 years. I went into the missionary field with no money trusting God, got married, had three kids, we never went hungry even at times when we ran out of food and money. Jesus took care of us everyday for over 15 years. We only came out because of our youngest special needs could not be met in the developing nation we were in.

I also believe God preserved all his words in a book we can hold in our hands today just as promised. That gives me more power and wisdom than most because you all got rid of most of the Old the New Testaments and only have partial remnants left to believe in and guide you. And from what I experienced here has not done you all a whole lot of good. Jesus said to go and sin no more but you sinned openly just a few posts back with your foul mouth. Sorry but fresh and salt water cannot come forth from the same spring.



edit on 2-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

WHAT power and wisdom? You have yet to refute one single point on this humongous thread, but to give the same verbatim answers time and time again.
You are the definition of "religious"....and you can't even see it.
There's a whole world out there, Chester. People whom you would classify as "them"... meaning...it's "you and your "god" AGAINST them".
Jesus didn't treat people that way. That's WHY He was such an amazing teacher. That's why people even today LOVE Him. Even non-christians respect Him.
Then you have Paul. A man (whether real or not) who has caused more division, racism, misogyny, killings in the name of God, judgmental attitudes, and hatred than any other person in the Bible...aside from YHWH.
But, you can't or refuse to see that. Guess cause "god" blesses you. So, by gosh, you're gonna defend that god to your dying breath.
Lucky you.
Now, go out and share those blessings with those who don't believe as you..you know, like JESUS taught. Or, would you rather blind them like Paul did?



posted on Jan, 2 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






Jesus said to go and sin no more but you sinned openly just a few posts back with your foul mouth. Sorry but fresh and salt water cannot come forth from the same spring.


Yea, I said, "crap..and "bullcrap"...and I think "ass". Sorry. I will try and be more "fresh" in my water from my spring. You know...like you.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix
You've only been a member for 2 days come back after you read all my posts in this thread.

Or are you SethTsaddik/Gnosisisfaith back from the ATS grave?

Which I lay odds you are from your Posting MO, i.e. one of your methods of cutting out of context of my words to deride me thereof.

You tell me I am not in your league and yet you don't know what God means by

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Well all I can say is

Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Matthew 7:7-8 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
These are true words, yeah, pure words, God given words to all men. Now apply them, and seek out that which you wonder in amazement about.



OK, I addressed several topics, none related to the random quotes you provided that I imagine you think pass for a response to my topics addressed that were certainly well thought out and worth responding to if you had a response.

What I see here is an expression of dislike for the fact that I picked apart your comment as easy as if it were cotton candy.

That is the purpose of these forums, you know that right?

I don't see the issues I raised quoted, mentioned or even addressed. I do see frustration and an unconcious admission of defeat in your complaint, mock and random quote response that refused to address ONE of the issues I brought up.

Before you can say "They weren't worth addressing" and I call it a copout I will preemptively say what specifically and how so, why not?

I used your whole comment to point out your fallacies.

You used none of mine.

maybe a passing reference to something I said of little importance such as not in my league but this is no war of words to me in the way it is to you, trading remarks like that is not my intention I was making a simple point in so doing.

That you are not a very enlightened fellow, it seems to me that any disagreement you meet with a remark about the person's character and stay away from written information unless it's a random quote from the Bible you imagine has relevance, which shows the Spirit of the letter of the Word is not yours to comprehend and possibly God has placed a veil over your eye from lack of faith.

It's a temporary measure remedied by repentance for claiming to follow the Messiah but actually following the false prophet predicted to come and having come at the time of the writing of Revelation.

Paul, the heretic turned spokesman for Orthodox legalism and source of justification for many heinous acts throughout the millennia. Anti Jewish fervor, especially in the Pauline epistles, was a major issue in Rome because they blamed the Jews for killing Jesus and the Jews had fought the Romans for a hundred years as well as had Pilate execute Jesus in cooperation with the Priest and the Herod backed Sadducee faction, hated by the Pharisees because they collaborated with Rome and were seen as traitors, some as false Jews or the "Synogogue of Satan" because they were Edomites or Idumean converts and Esau/Edom was not popular, especially the Edomites.

So they literally had nothing to do with it, the Pharisees only crime was misinterpreting the Torah and not being able to follow the superstitious extra Biblical laws of tradition.

Many of them became Christians and Gamaliel even was a supporter.

Though not of Paul. He was a double apostate and false prophet, they were not stupid enough to believe a word of his nonsense and eventually it lead to a total separation of Jerusalem from Paul and those loyal to Jerusalem.

The enemy of the friends and apostles of Jesus is considered by you to be your prophet.

It's a war of written words only and specifically.

Not a contest in mockery.
edit on 3-1-2017 by TerriblePhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


Paul wasnt real.

Paul is Peter.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: FTURE
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


Paul wasnt real.

Paul is Peter.



Maybe he was not real, quite possible.

But he was not Peter, who real or not represented a total other faction that rejected Paul and associated him with Simon the Sorcerer.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix

originally posted by: FTURE
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


Paul wasnt real.

Paul is Peter.



Maybe he was not real, quite possible.

But he was not Peter, who real or not represented a total other faction that rejected Paul and associated him with Simon the Sorcerer.



And Peters other name he is known by is . . . . . . Simon.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: FTURE

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix

originally posted by: FTURE
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


Paul wasnt real.

Paul is Peter.



Maybe he was not real, quite possible.

But he was not Peter, who real or not represented a total other faction that rejected Paul and associated him with Simon the Sorcerer.



And Peters other name he is known by is . . . . . . Simon.


Not the same Simon dude, they are enemies in Acts and the Clementine writings so that is a terrible reason to assume that.

Simon was a very popular name then, there were more than 2. Or 1 for that matter, the only scenario that your assumption would ever make sense.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: FTURE

Do you think Peter had DID or something?

He's Simon Peter, Simon Magus and Paul?

And schizophrenic, being his own arch nemesis?

That's a very strange theory.
edit on 3-1-2017 by TerriblePhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix
a reply to: FTURE

Do you think Peter had DID or something?

He's Simon Peter, Simon Magus and Paul?

And schizophrenic, being his own arch nemesis?

That's a very strange theory.



Peter is known as everything;

The Snake

The Rooster

The Eagle

The Alpha and Omega


Dont ever forget, Peter is known as God on earth.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


It is not the crucifixion that gave man the Wisdom needed to enter the Kingdom of God, it's what Jesus said we should DO that is important, we should be like him, do as he says and does to a T. Instead of learning the message of the life of Jesus, the light, you focus on his death, the dark, and believe it is to your benefit that he died. But he didn't die, he went to heaven so there is no sacrifice there just temporary suffering, maybe.

It sounds like you are not Christian. Why? Because you have no conception of Christianity.

When you accuse a person of wrong doing then you should be prepared to explain and describe the charge against that person.

If you are interested in learning then simply ask but if you are not interested in learning and simply make a statement of hate and anger then that also should be said in honesty.

Now I made the statement that you have no conception of Christianity and by that I mean that you seem to me as not having the understanding of Christianity. So in that I wanted to make it clear that your theology is not of Nazarene origin. You may be embracing some who claim Christianity as their theology but that theology of your understanding is not that of the liturgy of the first century synagogue of James.

To understand what I mean is to realize that there was no NT in the Nazarene first century synagogue of James. In lite of that, your understanding is based upon MSS that was not necessarily that of the liturgy of James. The entire Nazarene structure had changed within those first thirty years in which James was the Nazarene Nasi.

Let me give an example. Saul/Paul is said to have converted about five years after the death of Jesus and after his conversion he was in the desert area of Arabia for about three years. During that eight years Saul/Paul had never met any apostle of Jesus or James the Nasi. After the eight years Saul/Paul then went to Jerusalem and met Peter first an then the Nasi James as well as the entire congregation of James. All embraced Paul as one of their own evangelists and Paul thereafter taught and preached often in the Jerusalem area.

But as Paul came upon the scene there had been change which the NT does not explain. * The blood sacrifice was forbidden. * One was not compelled to be circumcised. * There was a consciousness and judgment at death and men could be justified by faith and enter the celestial New Jerusalem. One could eat and drink of the heavenly Paradise of New Jerusalem and live forever. * No more was there a national collective justification but each person was libel for their own sins. * The Priestly order of the national temple was changed and women were as sacred in life as men. * People would be sanctified by faith in Jesus as the Begotten Son of The Most High El.. Many more changes were present as Paul stood in the congregation of James which were not of the rabbinical Judaic structure.

Now my question is this-- Who changed all of this after Jesus died? Paul? Are you inferring that Paul is to blame for any of the above changes? If you are then you are very well mistaken. Paul was too busy rounding up the misfits and being spanked by The Most High EL.. Who told who to start up a new synagogue with a new Nasi and power structure?

When you figure that out then you might see what ChesterJohn is trying to tell you. Till then it might be well to discuss one disagreement at a time instead of a large amount of vague theological subjects.

So I ask you to explain your theology as to who Jesus is? Is He the Begotten Son of God in your theology? One subject at a time please.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


It is not the crucifixion that gave man the Wisdom needed to enter the Kingdom of God, it's what Jesus said we should DO that is important, we should be like him, do as he says and does to a T. Instead of learning the message of the life of Jesus, the light, you focus on his death, the dark, and believe it is to your benefit that he died. But he didn't die, he went to heaven so there is no sacrifice there just temporary suffering, maybe.

It sounds like you are not Christian. Why? Because you have no conception of Christianity.

When you accuse a person of wrong doing then you should be prepared to explain and describe the charge against that person.

If you are interested in learning then simply ask but if you are not interested in learning and simply make a statement of hate and anger then that also should be said in honesty.

Now I made the statement that you have no conception of Christianity and by that I mean that you seem to me as not having the understanding of Christianity. So in that I wanted to make it clear that your theology is not of Nazarene origin. You may be embracing some who claim Christianity as their theology but that theology of your understanding is not that of the liturgy of the first century synagogue of James.

To understand what I mean is to realize that there was no NT in the Nazarene first century synagogue of James. In lite of that, your understanding is based upon MSS that was not necessarily that of the liturgy of James. The entire Nazarene structure had changed within those first thirty years in which James was the Nazarene Nasi.

Let me give an example. Saul/Paul is said to have converted about five years after the death of Jesus and after his conversion he was in the desert area of Arabia for about three years. During that eight years Saul/Paul had never met any apostle of Jesus or James the Nasi. After the eight years Saul/Paul then went to Jerusalem and met Peter first an then the Nasi James as well as the entire congregation of James. All embraced Paul as one of their own evangelists and Paul thereafter taught and preached often in the Jerusalem area.

But as Paul came upon the scene there had been change which the NT does not explain. * The blood sacrifice was forbidden. * One was not compelled to be circumcised. * There was a consciousness and judgment at death and men could be justified by faith and enter the celestial New Jerusalem. One could eat and drink of the heavenly Paradise of New Jerusalem and live forever. * No more was there a national collective justification but each person was libel for their own sins. * The Priestly order of the national temple was changed and women were as sacred in life as men. * People would be sanctified by faith in Jesus as the Begotten Son of The Most High El.. Many more changes were present as Paul stood in the congregation of James which were not of the rabbinical Judaic structure.

Now my question is this-- Who changed all of this after Jesus died? Paul? Are you inferring that Paul is to blame for any of the above changes? If you are then you are very well mistaken. Paul was too busy rounding up the misfits and being spanked by The Most High EL.. Who told who to start up a new synagogue with a new Nasi and power structure?

When you figure that out then you might see what ChesterJohn is trying to tell you. Till then it might be well to discuss one disagreement at a time instead of a large amount of vague theological subjects.

So I ask you to explain your theology as to who Jesus is? Is He the Begotten Son of God in your theology? One subject at a time please.


Why do you care so much about my thoughts?

Do they bother you?

Well I am not going to change because you want me to, that is for sure. If you want to waste time telling me about Orthodoxy and your personal pseudo metaphysical speculation be my guest but I am not as interested in what you say as you are in me.

Not even close. You have your opinion and I could not possibly care less if it differs from mine, especially about a topic with no way of proof + or -.



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: FTURE

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix
a reply to: FTURE

Do you think Peter had DID or something?

He's Simon Peter, Simon Magus and Paul?

And schizophrenic, being his own arch nemesis?

That's a very strange theory.



Peter is known as everything;

The Snake

The Rooster

The Eagle

The Alpha and Omega


Dont ever forget, Peter is known as God on earth.




He is not known as any of those things and the Alpha Omega is Jesus or God in Revelation.

Now you are just getting ridiculous and I can assure you not on to something with these non facts.

Peter is not on earth so can't be God on earth you are thinking of the Pope, the "Vicar of Christ" of a religion Peter had no part of.
edit on 3-1-2017 by TerriblePhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


Why do you care so much about my thoughts? Do they bother you? Well I am not going to change because you want me to, that is for sure. If you want to waste time telling me about Orthodoxy and your personal pseudo metaphysical speculation be my guest but I am not as interested in what you say as you are in me. Not even close. You have your opinion and I could not possibly care less if it differs from mine, especially about a topic with no way of proof + or -.

Why should I care about your thoughts? For the same reason you care about others thoughts. You posted a very long rant on your thoughts on an open forum and doing so you should expect others the same courtesy. You do understand that this is an open forum and on an open forum it involves discussion by any one who should want to join the discussion do you not?

Normally I would not care about what you think but then I am a Nazarene of the order of James and the brother of the Christ Jesus and being a brother of the order of James I am also a brother of Paul the thirteenth apostle of The Most High El.. Naturally when some one declares my brother to be a false prophet and a liar I then take issue with that claim and ask for evidence.

If you were a Muslim would you not take issue with your Muhammad being declared a false prophet and a liar and a murderer and a pedophile among other justified insults? Of course you would. All over the world people are being murdered for those very same declarations.

So in lite of that, why is it not proper for me to defend my brother's honor from liars and thieves? That is the only reason I take issue with you and I do not repent when a truth is spoken by me. I have the same rights as do you and even though I would not harm anyone for that right I also expect the same to apply to myself.

Yes your thoughts do bother me in that I do not wish to see any personage lose the right to live forever with my brothers and sisters in the kingdom of heaven. Yes even with brother Paul the thirteenth apostle of The Most High El..



posted on Jan, 3 2017 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Look, Matrix, it has nothing to do with you trying to please me or vise versa.

When I got saved, my life began to change, my heart began to change and with in 6 months I was completely different person. After having a very foul mouth for 20 plus years those F S C D and other words would come out of my mouth by pure habit, they just stopped happening and I didn't even try to please Jesus. It just happened. It is his power in me not mine that did this, the Holy Ghost in dwelling in me did that.

I had a new habit though and it was reading my Bible everyday, I started with a NASB, went to a NIV, then to a new King James and then I found he preserved word of God in the AV. That took 10 years for me to get to the AV and another 3 for me to be convinced it was truly the preserved word of God. Now I don't expect any of you to agree with me on it but for me it is and God has proven to me many times.

I do have difficulty in typing the absolute best words to express my ideas in a discussion especially when a person is attacking the very thing that I got saved through, the word of God. My words don't always get taken in the way I mean them to and to that I apologize.

I have shared it before in this thread, but once I realized that I cannot be absolutely correct in the interpretation of emotions in people posts without certain elements that would be there in a face to face conversation. So I started to read posts without adding my idea of their emotions. So I do my best to give a poster the benefit of the doubt that they are not being emotional in certain ways that I might be interpreting their post to be.

Anyway, I think I have tried my best to defend Jesus Choice of Paul. I don't thing Paul started Christianity, I believe Jesus Christ did. I think after this last years of study, I tried to see if the things you and others have proposed were true by taking to the scriptures. I did not violate any of the basics of bible study like context, types of speech, and asking the 7 W's and the one H' questions, in so doing it led me to the conclusion that these teachings of yours and others were incorrect. I did honestly find that a lot of Paul's teachings were expansions of Jesus basic teachings.

I listed out previously what those things were and noted that there were more also. I also noted that there were some thing Paul did not expand on and I believe it was because the Kingdom promise to the Jews was not going to be fulfilled at that time and that is why Saul/Paul was called. Those teachings he did not expand on were in fact only applicable to the kingdom and some of them would not work today.

I apologize for any slight that may have hurt you I don't think I was trying to do that. I often in my directness do offend and that I am still trying to work on that.

So I am backing away from the thread now I don't think it is advantageous for me to go any further in this discussion. But if ever you wish to communicate you are always welcome to give me a PM.

Take care.

Num 6:24-26 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.



edit on 3-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



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