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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Salaam Chester, may Allah bless you.




posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

Jesus is the one who blesses me beyond even that which I can think or ask.

My Lord God Almighty is not your Allah.

I know you are offering a simple blessing as best as you know how. and for that I an thankful.

I pray my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, God Almighty shines his countenance upon you and lead you in his way of Salvation through faith on His cross.
edit on 16-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

May Allah T'Allah/God Most High bless you, Chester John. The God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is, as everyone actually knows including you, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You can deny it, but it will always be true unless you worship a different God than the God of Jesus the Messiah.

You can't stop a soul from worshipping God/Allah so if someone says they worship the God of Abraham you can't do a damn thing about it.

Because it's a fact.
edit on 16-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

Salaam Chester, are you a conspiracy nut?

Because there is no secret to the fact that the God of Moses, Jesus and the Prophets, the one and only God, is the God of Islam.

Allah is used by Arabic speaking Christians too, not just Muslims, and it's recognized they worship the same God by everyone including Jews and Christians.

Your belief in exclusivity of God in your religion alone is fanatical and leads to nothing but hate, because it comes from hate.

And that you think you can deny someone who you don't know the right to worship your God and practice a slightly different religion is grandiose. And fanatical, again.

You simply have no say unless you deny you worship the God of Jesus because that's the God of Islam too.

Hilarious.
edit on 16-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: SethTsaddik

originally posted by: coomba98
Akragon

Come on set me free digger!

Watch me fly!

Coomba98


Do you need permission?

Are you not free?

Chickens don't fly.


And you are already free, you just don't have anything good to say because you don't know anything. Akgragon telling you basically to stfu is your excuse.

I only write this in the hope that you will get mad, so I can go back to ignoring every message of yours and you can get even more mad.

Cuz you some kind of special brand of fool.


But nobody needs to give you permission to participate in a thread if you're a member, so unless you are just looking to be the psycho freak you were when told to stfu by OP:

You don't need permission, and asking is...dumb.
you


That totally cracked me up!



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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edit on 16-12-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: double post



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: SethTsaddik
originally posted by: coomba98

stfu



Do you really think that a follower of Jesus Christ would use such language even in abbreviated form, as you do?

Truly you are not a follower of Jesus Christ nor a Believer in him or the Bible. So why even discuss it?


Because the one you are actually defending (Coomba) is waaay worse. However, because he just wants to throw some gas on the fire here, you would gladly take it, wouldn't you? So, how does that make you a follower of Jesus Christ?

By the way, most the Christians I know have been know to use a cuss word a time or two, lol. (probably more than that)


edit on 16-12-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






So here it is in the complete chapter and its sectional context. So simple a sixth grader could understand it.


Seems you think "6th graders" should have a whole bunch of spiritual and biblical knowledge. Or, are you just "trying" to be condescending?

Apparently Paul, whom you hold in such high regard, has something to say about that.

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14

(guess how I knew that? Cause I've read the Bible constantly)



Here's what Jesus said about little children..

Matthew 19:14New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”


So, I guess Jesus held more respect for the "little children" who the kingdom of heaven belonged to.
Wonder why? Maybe because what JESUS taught, a little child could understand.

OR...you could listen to Paul's "goobly gob" and need a theological degree to "teach the real truth" right out of ya.
Yea, you'd have to have one in order to make Paul's circular reasoning and made up junk, somehow fit in with the teachings of Jesus.

You know....Paul said
"When I was a child, I was speaking like a child, I was thinking like a child, I was reasoning like a child; when I became a man, I did away with the things of the child."

Oh...it's another one of those "dichotomies"....you know..the one where Jesus says something (that supposedly even a child could understand), and then Paul comes along changing all those truths, and say's "put childish ways behind you".

Oh boy...so, who to believe??



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Oh I would agree especially when they hit their thumb with a hammer. Or maybe if an fit of anger but not in their regular speech day in and day out.

Before I was saved I had the foulest mouth but right afterwords that language no longer had a hold on me and I stopped using it I had no struggle with it, just like I had not problem with stopping smoking, and using drugs and smoking pot, they were just all taken away. And replaced with the word of God.

I do understand that not everyone gets set free from those things as I did but it will continue to improve in their live. Because we were buried in the likeness of his death and raised to newness of life in Christ Jesus. Jesus often told his followers who believed on him to go and sin no more. The power to sin no more is the grace of God given to us when we through faith receive the free gift of God our salvation.

But with our co-poster we did not see a progression of improvement in his manners but more and more insults, wacky interpretations of the Bible, especially about Paul. And then he announced he is a Muslim and his god is Allah, and his book the Quran, Which answers all the questions as to his being Gnosisisfaith and he not being saved.

Jesus said it therefore it must be true,

. . . I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Not Allah, not Mohammad, not Buddha, not by he law of Moses, not by any one but Jesus Christ.


edit on 16-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 10:57 PM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik






Your belief in exclusivity of God in your religion alone is fanatical and leads to nothing but hate, because it comes from hate.


Exactly...another one of those things that PAUL brings out in Pauline Christians.

However, Jesus said, "love your enemies, and do good to those that hate you".

I offered Chester money, because he explained in exact precision what his bills were, what he actually made for working, and not only that, but all about his poor cat.
Well....I understood that, completely. I truly wanted (and still want to help him). Cause, that's what Jesus told us to do.
I even pm'd him, telling him I would gladly help him out.
However, that offer was slammed right back in my face....because Jesus has always been the one to help him.
If I'm wrong, correct me, but didn't Jesus tell us to take care of "the lease of these", or "whatever you have done for them, you've done for ME"?
So, on the flip side of that, I honestly shared my life situation. Chester told me to go to local charities, or whatever...to get the help I need. Oh, and before that, he asked me to honor Jesus' teachings of "do not withhold those who ask from you", and asked for me to contact him to send him EVERYTHING I own....not worrying about if it would affect anyone else in my family. He just needed to make a point.
Oky doke.
By the way Chester, my offer still stands. I will send you some money. If you don't want to use it for you or your family, then I will happily supply help for your cat.
Animals are my joy.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn







I do understand that not everyone gets set free from those things as I did but it will continue to improve in their live. Because we were buried in the likeness of his death and raised to newness of life in Christ Jesus. Jesus often told his followers who believed on him to go and sin no more. The power to sin no more is the grace of God given to us when we through faith receive the free gift of God our salvation.


Um, then can you "explain" how those who Jesus taught to "go and sin no more" were privy to "salvation".
Because, according to PAUL....you can't even RECEIVE spiritual truths if you are a "natural man/woman".
Oh, and according to "Paul", NO ONE is actually saved unless the crucifixion has occurred and Jesus has shed His blood, and there in NO ONE RIGHTEOUS...NO, NOT ONE.

SOOO.....how can someone stop sinning, if according to PAUL, it's impossible, due to our sin nature and the "unregenerate man/woman"? You know, the same "unregenerate man/woman that Jesus told to STOP SINNING....BEFORE Jesus' blood was shed for the remission of sins? OR...before Paul's doctrine was put out to tell everyone that they were just "dirty, rotten, sinners", who could NEVER measure up to God's standard.

However...Jesus somehow mentioned quite a "few" people who WERE righteous...WAY before He was even born, and even afterwards (John the Baptist was mentioned, I believe).

Ok Chester. Time to start refuting all the points I made above.

Oh, and you can't use the same 5 parrot responses you've used every time.







Jesus said it therefore it must be true, "I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE".


Well, you are correct on that point. Oh, and Jesus doesn't need Paul to "expound" on HIS teachings. What Jesus taught is sufficient....and then some.
edit on 16-12-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

No, it is a point that you obviously don't know about the Preserved word of God, the Authorized Version. It is written in what is considered sixth grade English. The AV uses on an average three syllable words, oh yes there are few that are more and a lot that are less. And that type of literature is considered sixth grade reading level. Hence my use of a "sixth grader could understand it.

When over viewing Romans chapter Seven I could easily see his claim Paul said the law was at fault for his sin was in error. Because apparently he had forgotten how to follow English sentence structure and was misunderstanding what Paul was saying and teaching through personal application. In the end Paul knew only Jesus could save men from their body of sin. He simply divorced some of the verses from the section and made it teaching something Paul was not saying or teaching.

I found it quite amazing for someone who claimed to have a great knowledge of the Bible to make such a drastic mistake. It was either that or he was parroting someone else.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

GRACE, is the answer. The Holy Ghost, the father and the Word/Son/Jesus Christ are one. When they (meaning God/the Holy Ghost/Jesus Christ) lead you to the truth and you through faith believe and receive the grace of God. Grace gives you the power to sin no more. But while you are alive you can still sin and sin away that grace.

But as long a man/woman is alive there is nothing from keeping them from getting saved, repenting and continuing in that Grace God freely gives as a gift.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






It is written in what is considered sixth grade English.


Oh, but that's not what you said, Chester. You said, "even a 6th grader could understand it".
Big difference there, sir.




In the end Paul knew only Jesus could save men from their body of sin.


K. Then, please explain to me WHY Jesus called some "righteous"?




Because apparently he had forgotten how to follow English sentence structure and was misunderstanding what Paul was saying and teaching through personal application.


Ok I'm trying not to laugh...because APPARENTLY, Seth isn't the only one who see's through Paul's bull.
Don't you think that if someone is COMPLETELY truthful and of the truth, there would be nothing to find against them?
Seriously, the dilemma with Paul has been going on for CENTURIES.

What's even funnier is, the ONE that you should be loyal to and defending is JESUS....not Paul and not a BOOK.
Not only that, but please give your view on HOW Elijah was taken up to Heaven while still ALIVE? If I remember correctly, Enoch was allowed in, as well.



posted on Dec, 16 2016 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






GRACE, is the answer.


Then show us all how JESUS taught grace was the answer? I mean, even you have stated that the Kingdom gospel that Jesus taught, and the gospel of Paul are different.
So, once again...you take "Paul's" teachings over Jesus'..
(because in your mind...Paul only "expounded"' on the TRUTH of Jesus' teachings.) Correct?



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Apologies Goodman Akragon. Tell me to shut up and I will, but these Padawans are being extremely impertinent its not funny. I respect you digger but someones gotta say something to these offensive little poos.

I dont know why the Mods allow them to post like this. Especially the passive agressive posts.

a reply to: Padawan SethTsaddik
a reply to: Padawan Matrixsurvivor

Why are you Padawans so disgraceful and impertinent? Are your lives so screwed up that you have to come on ATS and vent your personal life anger onto other people who think differently than you?

Yes you can question and critisize other views/beliefs, but only there beliefs. Too personally attack them is just being extremely disgraceful and rude. You should be ashamed of yourselves Padawans!!!

Maybe if you were a better person in your personal life you would be a better person on ATS!

You Padawans are disgusting and should get a life, a good one where you are happy people. Then that would reflect on your posting to the ATS community.

Silly Padawans!

How about acting like you actually believe in a kind and generous God!!

Who judges people on there actions.

Love... Master Coomba
edit on 17-12-2016 by coomba98 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Grace is not always a personal quality like charming, graceful in movement, or a pleasing appearance. Grace for grace as John said it.

John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Grace has many meanings like; unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification. Also means mercy, pardon and a sense of propriety or right. So though Jesus did not use the word Grace does not mean he did not show it our use it in many of its other translated English words he did speak.

Sixth graders generally understand sixth grade English. And the Saved sixth graders I know who are more versed in the Bible than Seth, do understand the AV in a way that amazes me sometimes.

Seth's whole premise about Paul in Romans 7, was obvious to my 11 year old when I let her read his post, he was confusing the English sentence structure and ignoring the context. Molocchino did the same thing. So my statement stands that is is clear to a sixth grader. And using it as such because the English of the AV is sixth grade also allows for that conclusion to be made.

By the way, even though Jesus was not born in December, I pray and wish you and yours have a Merry Christmas.
edit on 17-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Eh Matrixsurvivor, you had brought up Mathew 19:1 and 1 Corinthians 13:11.It doesn't have to be a "dichotomy", necessarily.

The part from Mathew gives the impression that Jesus is honoring the purity and innocence that children have.Traits that are good for one, seeking heaven.

In Corinthians 13, Paul writes about love in comparison to transient things.His mentioning of putting away childish things, reflects the maturity that comes from growing into an adult.

It reminds me of the the rebirth that can happen when individuals learn to see life in a different way.As children growing up in a world filled with adversity, one tends to loose the innocense and lightness of youth.Life can be difficult, and many become jaded by the scars of day to day living.Seeking to improve oneself spiritually, requires practicing a clear conscience and the self discipline to not go too hard on yourself, as one tries to realize greater mysteries.

Paul mentioning how he was as a child, and putting away childish things seems to be encouraging one to get their priorities straight, and focus on what really matters, as a grown up.Corinthians 13 message is about Love, and it's value in one's quest.A higher kind of love, that goes beyond doing the right things for the wrong reasons.A pure love.

Paul even mentions seeing in the mirror dimly, compared to seeing face to face.It mentions seeing only in part, and then knowing fully, in a similar fashion.Sounds like seeing in HD,lol.

Seriously though, these verses you mention, remind me of what could be considered part of the Hero's Journey.In the start, setting out with high ideals, and full of hope on a journey into the mysteries of life.Like children looking at life as an adventure.Not necessarily where you are going, but how you get there.The spirit of youth, with the purity of purpose needed to carry one to wherever they choose to go.

Then as life brings one different challenges, and lessons.It's tests, and ordeals encouraging one to practice looking inside themselves and rise to a higher standard of being.

This can be a grueling and painful experience, and it's easier to lose oneself to adversity then realize the lessons before us.I feel many people lose their way once the give up hope, belief in higher ideals, and love for life.Those who stop dancing in the face of the Demiurge,and submit to a dog eat dog mentality.

Growing up spiritually can be illustrated by Plato's Allegory of the Cave.Everybody starting out in the cave entertained by the shadows, with the mysteries of life existing beyond the darkness.I believe children are born into this world with the qualities needed to succeed, but that the trials of life sometimes get someone hung up in illusions that hamper our growth.

Learning to practice letting go of these illusions, while hanging onto hope,love and faith, is what I think Paul is getting at with Corinthians 13:11.Verse 12, and 13 more so.Love is the light in our journey towards the divine...



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

Hey Seth, you mentioned Paul being of the evil one earlier.Who exactly is the evil one in your world?

I'm curious as to if this was a figure of speech,who or what exactly are you referencing there?Satan/Iblis/Dr. Evil/Cobra Commander/Megatron/Gargamel?

edit on 17-12-2016 by dffrntkndfnml because: spacing



posted on Dec, 17 2016 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

he is a Muslim so anyone not a Muslim is an evil one.



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