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originally posted by: Akragon
Can we get back to the topic of the thread and stop going after each other here?
We are all members of the same forum... disagreements be damned...
its about discussion of the topic... not the people participating in...
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik
Try quoting some scriptures in context to prove I am wrong.
Again all you give is opinions.
originally posted by: JerryMH
originally posted by: SethTsaddik
a reply to: JerryMH
I am more amazed by the day at how many people have woke up to the plain truth that Paul was or whoever is behind his writings (I put my money, all of it, on Marcion) was in fact the enemy of James and Peter especially but the whole movement of Jesus until he wrote his last word.
He didn't even hide it, called them false apostles who resemble Satan masquerading as an an angel of light and had derogatory terms for them like ''circumcision faction" and "Judaizers" while James response to Pauline faith only soteriology was:
"Do you want to be shown, you senseless man, faith without works is dead"?
James speaks of the dangers of the tongue, two kinds of wisdom, of friendship with the world and says about faith ''Even the demons believe --and shudder." immediately before my last quote.
The general epistles are indeed thinly veiled anti Pauline theology polemics that got past the relatively unlettered Church fathers and made the Canon, as did heaps of hints that Paul is not what he claims or the churches claim and actually represents one faction of an early religion with Acts as the bridge attempting to connect the two historically opposed factions.
The Gospels are all from distinct sects and not one and heavily redacted and interpolated writings, Matthew comes from the Ebionites though it didn't have a virgin birth, had the Holy Spirit as Jesus Mother and Jesus only the adopted Son of God at baptism.
Mark is somewhat docetic and I suspect of Marcionite origin rather than Luke, I do not think that the author of Acts, if the same author as Luke or not, was sympathetic to Paul's theology but hid it by being very subtle and the Gospel of Luke is from an unknown source like the other all anonymous Gospels but I think it was a Greek or Roman for sure, which Luke was if not Syrian (I'm not sure actually) and educated enough to make errors on purpose to draw attention to the fact that Paul and the Jews, including Nazarenes, were enemies and the Jews who took a vow to not eat until Paul was dead were probably both Pharisees and Nazarenes as according to the Gospel Hebrew Matthew and the Clementine Homilies, Acts too, they were friends.
That was likely the most significant interpolation, that the Pharisees were so evil, because Rome was pretty anti Semitic.
It's all the answer to the question; "Why isn't the Catholic or Christian Church full of Jews if it started as a Jewish religion?"
Paul was the catalyst for anti Semitism in the Roman Empire with his heavily anti Semitic writings.
I believe in God Most High, call Him Father or Allah, but I can't stretch my imagination to the point of believing that Jesus is God. He never made that claim, he denied it. "My God and your God." was spoken by Jesus, and God doesn't have a God, just Jesus, who denied being good as "Only God is good" in a stern rebuke.
I marvel at the level of liar one must rise to in order to teach Jesus is God when he himself denied it in the New Testament several times. Either that or you must not be well acquainted with the Bible, because it's a messed up book. It actually doesn't teach much of what the churches teach at all and actually distorts Judaism and itself.
I think it is more about socializing or guilt than seeking truth or Jesus the Nazarene.
That's right on IMO. I totally agree Jesus was not god nor claimed it. His relationship is unique but Christianity has been built on that lie and a few key others. IMO the cornerstone was rejected which is the Humanity of Jesus. The Bible is the most worshipped idol today responsible for authorizing countless atrocities.
The whole thing needs to be torn down. Even the concept of 'saved' through believing with all the usual rituals is wrong IMO
But I'm drifting way off topic. Appreciate you chiming in here.
originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: SethTsaddik
Hey friend....just wanted to say, I'm sorry for saying "Shut up" to you know who. It wasn't right how he spoke to you...and then me.... I should have just ignored him, but I did not appreciate how he was trying to degrade you. Anyway , back to ignoring him. Keep going, bro....you are doing an outstanding job.
Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Acts 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Acts 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Acts 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Acts 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Acts 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
Acts 15:33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.
Acts 15:34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
Acts 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
Acts 15:36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.
Acts 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.
Acts 15:38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;
Acts 15:40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.
Acts 15:41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
Acts 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
I submit that it is more than likely James the son of Alpheus seeing the brother of Jesus was not a follower until after the resurrection.
And your further nonsense about Biblical things without any Bible shows you know nothing f the words of God
edit on 12-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddikIt only says it in two places once in the gospel writing and once in Galatian.
But no where in Acts 15 as plain as the nose on your ace does it say that the James who is speaking is the brother of Jesus. There are three James who are not the brother of Jesus but you ignore them.
This is why I tire of such foolish nonsense because you all say something that is not true and claim it is in the Bible without showing the verse or believing the bible to begin with.
You are wrong the word of Gods correct.
Common knowledge is things like putting air in your tires, or gravity. Bible knowledge is knowledge of the bible something you lack obviously as you cannot produce one verse that proves beyond a showdown of a doubt that the James in Acts 15 is the brother of Jesus when it could just as well be James son of Alpheus.
originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik
I showed you what the Bible says and it does not say that James in act 15 is in fact James the brother of Jesus, and it very well could be James the son of Alpheus aslo know as James the Less.
Just because there are two places in scriptures that ay there is a brother of Jesus named James does not make the James in Acts 15 the brother of Jesus. As I showed you by scriptures there is no mention of it in the immediate context or the context as whole it is an assumption that has no scriptural proof. It could be but it could also be James the son of Alpheus who was an actual Apostle during Christ Earthly Ministry. Context is very important study without context leads to error.
I don't put trust in men like Josephus because he was not a saved man. I don't trust anything outside the preserved word of God.
There was no such thing as a Muslim I the sense of an Islamic, at the time of Christ.
If you are trying to be smart and say he is one who is submitted to God that is true but that does not make one a Muslim it could just make him a man who follows after God.
Anyone who says Paul is a liar and rejects the book of Acts and all of Paul's letters is in fact rejecting that which the Holy Ghost has done and blasphemies against the Holy Ghost.
Acts 13:2-4 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come]/b].