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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: mysticalmetalhippie

[B]VIOLATION OF THE T&C[/B] attack the message not the messenger.

Those who call others bullies usually are one themselves




posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Now I know where you were getting your info on Paul from. from sources that want to enslave you to Islam. They always give away propaganda to make you a member.

I have been to a mosque and yes they have definite religious attitude of prayer and religious attitudes even a religious attitude to put to death all who don't believe as they do.

But it does not make it true.

We had a bible study this week and after words people prayed with each other and some gave forth From Gods word and it went on for over a hour. We not only felt peace but love, encouragement and exhortation, the presence of God our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Though God dwells in us it is nice when all the spiritual gifts are at work in a group and the Holy Ghost move as he did.



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio




Originally posted by Malocchio
There is not much trustability in the writings of Eusebius who invented a man named Ebion to say was the founder of the Ebionites.

He would have had no problem lying about anything to please his masters and besides the original Hebrew Matthew they had a Gospel that Clement quotes as though it's the Gospel of the Hebrews but is clearly the Gospel of Thomas.


Hmmm…How do you know that’s it’s the “Gospel of Thomas” that was quoted…?




Originally posted by Malocchio
Also a Gospel of the Ebionites is quoted from so I doubt that their Gospel had anything to do with Matthew, Eusebius was not that bright really.


So you think the History that the Ebionites had a book of Matthew was either fabricated by Eusebius, or that Eusebius made a mistake or some kind of error…?




Originally posted by Malocchio
What does being a Muslim have to do with studying other religions? Did the US pass a law banning Muslims from reading Jewish books? (not like I would obey if)

There is no ban on scholarly study of religion in Islam, you have us confused with Orthodox Christianity. I have a book in my hand I just quoted from written by a Muslim about Christianity.

That's actually a little insulting to insinuate that because I am of one religion I can't learn about others, that's not what I am about.


I wasn’t insinuating anything, just asking a question that’s all…

I don’t have a problem with you personally reading and studying other books and religions etc…I think it’s great actually…more people should do the same…

I just thought Muslims stuck to the Hadiths, the Quran and the Old Testament…I’m not a Muslim so I wouldn’t know, which is why I was asking…

Also just to help explain my question a bit further, if for example you read various Apocalyptic texts and began to realise their esoteric and non-literal meanings, then surely that would have a knock on effect with your literal end times beliefs within Islam.

This is just one example that I can think, which might impact your beliefs in Islam, there are probably many others.

Reading other teachings and ideas might clash with your own Islamic beliefs, some where down the line…that’s why I asked you that question… “how does that work exactly…?”


- JC



edit on 26-10-2016 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 08:00 PM
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Actually no! Mary Magdalene did because without a female to sponsor that 13th disciple spot you would have a masculine fan club that could not be international aswell as timeless.



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn



Originally posted by ChesterJohn
That is what they want you to think. But there god is an old god of the Arab tribes of Mecca known as the moon god, and it was said he had two daughters.


That Moon God stuff was debunked years ago. Come on, you’re not honestly still buying that nonsense are you…?

Muslims believe in all the Prophets from the OT…And they believe in those prophets because they promote and believed in the God of the OT…they even believe in the virgin birth too. It’s exactly the same God; They just have a different Title for God and view Jesus differently than Christianity does…

You can say they don’t accept Jesus in the same way Christianity does, but you can’t say they don’t believe in the one true God from the OT, because they do…




Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Allah recently is the god of war as 99% of the wars on the planted involve Islamist of varying degrees. ISIS is a great example of how warring their god is.


You can’t judge a few bad extremists, and say that applies to all of Islam and every other Muslim on the planet. Most Muslims are peaceful people…IMO

Many people quote the Quran out of context to try to show how violent or wicked it is, but I’ve seen most of those arguments broken down once one understands the deeper meanings behind it…

Of course I’m not a Muslim and I’m still learning, but I do understand that they believe in the same God as the other two Abrahamic faiths…




Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Do you think Jesus and Allah are the same?


Try looking at it this way…

Jehovah Witnesses don’t believe Jesus is God but they do believe in the God of the OT…Muslims don’t believe Jesus is God either, but they do believe in the God of the OT…


- JC



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 09:08 PM
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Did any of these Holy Texts insist that we argue semantic idiosyncrasies that would ensure a divide within humankind?
edit on 26-10-2016 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2016 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

1 Thessalonians 5:21:

Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.

Of course that's talking about a more personal process than arguing with others about it, but it's hard to evaluate anything without asking questions about it, or letting someone know where it contradicts something the bible is teaching about the subject and why it seems incorrect or why you're left with crucial questions about it (related to whether or not something that is being argued for is correct, true or not).

Btw, Joecroft, Muslims do not believe Jesus was the "firstborn of all creation" (Col.1:15) and "the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev. 3:14). For them Jesus is the same as all the other prophets (or almost the same, in terms of importance and role), even Muhammad as the "last prophet" seems to be more special to them than Jesus. They also do not believe Jesus is God's appointed King (and Lord) of God's Kingdom (Acts 2:36, 5:31, Matthew 28:18, John 3:35), or our "great high priest" (Hebrews 4:14-16). And Jehovah's witnesses believe Jesus is a god, a divine being, a mighty one, see definitions 4 and 8 for the word "God" (or "god" or "gods") in the video below at 3:00. Muslims simply ignore all the bible verses that call Jesus a god or even a "mighty god"; note that he's never called Almighty God or God Almighty; the other angels are also called gods/mighty ones/heavenly beings/divine beings, see the 2nd part for examples. They are not false gods. They truly are heavenly/divine and mighty and loyal to Jehovah and do not seek worship for themselves, excluding them from being qualified as false gods.:


Muslims do not believe that "In the beginning the Word [Jesus] was with God" (John 1:1a) because "Jehovah produced me [Jesus] as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago." (Proverbs 8:22) And like I said that Jesus "was a god/divine being/heavenly being/godlike one/mighty one" (John 1:1c) as other angels are called and that he "was beside him [Jehovah God] as a master worker." (Proverbs 8:30, referring back to the time described in John 1:1a, Proverbs 8:22 and Revelation 3:14) They also don't believe that keeping in mind that because Jesus was "of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) he therefore is part of creation and thus is a creation, was created (the "of" makes that crystal clear for me, not for others apparently who prefer to debate the word "firstborn" and give it their own little twist, even following that up with some bible translations changing the word "of" to "over", a very significant deliberately deceptive change that is clearly incorrect if you look at the Greek); and because Jesus was created by Jehovah as the bible as a whole clearly shows as well, "All other things have been created through him [Jesus, "as a master worker"]" by Jehovah God (Col. 1:16; John 1:10; Hebrews 1:2: "...he [Jehovah] has spoken to us by means of a Son [Jesus],...through whom he [Jehovah] made the systems of things.") This is also not believed, taught or even discussed by Muslims (I wonder if any of them ever even think about this stuff, seeing that what the bible is actually teaching about Jesus and Jehovah is of no significance to them if it doesn't fit with what their Imams have taught them, which is one of those religious titles that Jesus had something to say about, much like "Rabbi, Father, etc.", also see further below regarding 2 Timothy).

Of course, Trinitarians don't either, here's a clue why they are left in darkness (left in ignorance regarding what the quotations above are referring to):

There is some misinformation about the term "co-creator" in part 2 but otherwise that part is safe to watch as well for additional information regarding this topic. But because of that and the opening term "Shalom" in the video I think the person who made that video has a Jewish background, ask a witness of Jehovah about whether or not Jesus is a "co-creator" and they'll be able to explain in more detail why he's not, probably using terminologies such as "instrument of creation" and "agent of creation". Whereas Jehovah is the source of creation and therefore called the Creator. Lots of details about all that are in the videos I shared in various threads on ATS regarding Colossians 1:15-18, Proverbs 8:22-30 and some more verses that I haven't mentioned yet. Whenever you see a comment of mine with a gazillion videos in it, that's the subject. A subject that is so heavily twisted by Babylon the Great and those stuck in it (repeating the arguments they've been taught by the teachers described in for example 2 Timothy 4:3,4 or those described as "having an appearance of godliness" and "completely corrupted in mind" at 2 Timothy 3:1-8) that even those comments don't even address every little twist or card (argument) that has been played by those obscuring this subject (and keeping people from understanding it). I think from this subject the broader definition for the words "God", "god" and "gods" is one of the crucial issues people are kept in ignorance of in all major religions (it's in the first video I shared). Even atheists (like the one who made the video below) seem to be completely oblivious to it. Bible critics certainly won't draw attention to it. Some people prefer to just pretend that it isn't clear (and give the impression that the bible contradicts itself or is vague about it or can be logically and reasonable interpreted in different ways, see below as well to see if you can spot it; to some people the misinterpretations are a lot clearer than to the person below who likes to see the bible misinterpreted to denigrate it's reliability, accuracy and clarity on this matter and many other subjects):

edit on 27-10-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 12:45 AM
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It's one of the few 'conspiracies' that are hardly ever discussed accurately on ATS (not even in the subforum "really above top secret"; perhaps they should call one "really really far above top secret" to see if it shows up then other than someone like me* bringing it up; *= background-wise), if you want to use the word "conspiracy" for deliberate deception (coordinated by either humans or spirits/gods/heavenly beings/angels that are not loyal to Jehovah, i.e. Satan and his demons). So I guess I'll just keep reminding people of it whenever they say something about the subject. Regardless of whether they are arguing that Jesus is the same god he's already "with", or when they are saying something that could be interpreted as arguing against the divinity of Jesus Christ (his divine nature, or that he is a god/heavenly being/divine being/godlike one/mighty one; and a spirit now again as he was before he came to earth, see definition 7 in the earlier video but ignore "ghost" and everything after "i.e.", that part is influenced by another Pagan philosophy and myth involving the immortality of the soul, which in turn is connected to the practice of praying to the dead and seances).

I hope one day that this becomes the only topic of interest to real truthseekers on ATS rather than who's the bigger crook, Clinton, Trump, or Paul (if we're thinking about this forum and this thread for a moment). Here's another supposed truthseeker (self-professed) that talked the same way about Paul as many here do (notice what he's teaching about Satan at the end, sound familiar?):

Oh, btw, regarding JFK's phrase "its dissenters are silenced not praised", a good way to 'silence' a group of people that are exposing your propaganda, brainwashing and (self-)deception as well as your doomed to fail plan of a New World Order of "peace and security" (by humans) is to call them a cult and accuse them of propaganda and brainwashing yourself (among many other forms of slander and discrediting attempts, ranging from accusations of being false prophets to inducing suicidal feelings). Psychological projection it's also sometimes called but that doesn't tell the whole story. Another way is to implicate them* as the conspirators or being part of the conspiracy (*: those who are exposing you or contradicting your teachings using the bible as a guide for "an accurate knowledge of truth"; see 2 Timothy 3:1-8 again).
edit on 27-10-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 01:06 AM
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originally posted by: cooperton
Did any of these Holy Texts insist that we argue semantic idiosyncrasies that would ensure a divide within humankind?


brother... Even Jesus said he did not come to bring peace... but a sword

Isn't a sword meant to cause division... both physically and spiritually in this case?




posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

Are you quoting Paul to show his deception or are you a supporter?

Jesus preached to aim for perfection, not ever claiming to be God as he called God hid God. Logically one who has a God can't be God in a monotheistic religion.

"Be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect."

"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."

Paul on the other hand made people feel worthless and incapable of righteousness, "No one is righteous, no, not one.''

Yet Jesus says nobody has ever been more righteous than John the Baptist. James the Just, from the Hebrew title Zaddik, means ''Righteous One."

Clearly Paul has no idea what he is talking about and seeks to enslave people spiritually to a doctrine opposed to Christ in that nothing you do matters towards ''salvation", a concept not even preached by Jesus, and that only ''faith" (read: believe what Paul says and nobody else) in the piggy back atonement of the death of Yeshua.

Everyone else is cursed.

While Jesus lifted people up, gave them hope that the Kingdom of God/Heaven was available here and now through the Baptisms of water, Spirit and fire.

There is an esoteric meaning behind the three Baptisms. The four elements of the world being earth, water, wind (Spirit, see John) and fire.

This was a call to Wisdom and knowledge, the science of ''knowing" or Gnosis is the blessings of the Spirit.

Paul sought to keep people uneducated, "Knowledge puffs up,..."

Which is interesting because if you examine the context the "knowledge" Paul had in mind was the fact that the Apostles actually knew Yeshua, knew what he taught and obviously didn't trust Paul with the esoteric Wisdom of the Messiah.

He was ''Forbidden by the Spirit from preaching in Asia." Meaning that they got rid of him without teaching him anything because he was not trustworthy or sincere.

His response was to create his own doctrine and to claim, not knowing that the Apostles had been warned about people making such claims, direct revelation from Yeshua.

I believe you called Paul a crook, so I imagine we're on the same page.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic

You are correct, we don't believe Yeshua had anything to do with creation, that belongs to God alone.

As Jesus himself denied being God by denying even being ''good" saying ''Only God [i.e. not me (Jesus), I'm not God] is good. Which is an odd thing to have a supposed God say and more odd that in defiance of scripture that Jesus was appointed to the status of a God.

Just because he was called or compared to the Logos, a Platonic, Stoic and Philonic teaching that was merely borrowed as a title for Jesus in the Philonic fashion of first born of God, the Great High Priest and compared to Melchizedek almost exactly as Philo speaks of the Logos of God.

I have no doubt that whoever wrote John was using the Philonic philosophy to suggest that Jesus was this Logos which means Reason and sometimes Word.

The Word is the scriptures, the Logos is something else entirely that doesn't translate well as Word but gives Christians a neat little ''See, it says Jesus is the Word and Creator so he's God." passage for the new Christian to be fooled by.

John was written as the "correction" Gospel, late and specifically to give plausibility to the ''Messiah=God" nonsense that the uneducated in Messianic prophecy believe.

You can comb the scriptures night and day but not find a prophecy stating that the Messiah is also the Son of God, fellow son of Man with Ezekiel, the Word/Reason/Logos or even divine and pre-existent as Creator.

Christians are so dishonest they use the plural Elohim to say that the Trinity is valid because God is plural in the Old Testament.

Elohim truthfully means ''Mighty Ones" and God had many Sons before the New Testament was even written (Genesis, Deuteronomy) and even David was called his son, they even borrowed the passage where David is called his begotten son in the New Testament.

So David was also an annointed (Messiah) son of God making the statement merely symbolic and not literal.

So, yeah, we don't believe Jesus was God because Jesus didn't, his Apostles didn't, it seems that Paul, through claiming to have been told that the law is a curse and is no longer valid, essentially takes the glory due God, and applies it to Jesus.

Only thing is Jesus was pro Tanakh/Torah and declared that Heaven and earth would pass before the Torah, and the Apostles also were Torah observant.

By calling the Torah a curse and blaming it for being the cause of sin Paul essentially blames God for sin as they believed the Torah was the Word of God.

That's blasphemy, all in the name of Paul, who came to ''fix" the teachings of Jesus because I guess Jesus changed his mind once he got to Heaven and said ''Let me find the sleaziest murdering lying hypocrite on earth and appoint him, without telling anyone else (because why would the Apostles need to know that Jesus changed his mind?), as the ''apostle" to the goyim.


Christianity, mainstream Christianity, you really need to start reading that book and asking questions like why does nobody (besides the acknowledged pseudepigraphal 2 Peter) even mention Paul outside of the writings of Paul and Luke.

Why were the Gospels supposedly written AFTER the Pauline epistles?

And why are there two religions in the New Testament, why don't we ever talk about Paul's rejection by the 12 and James?

Why do we call Jesus God when Jesus flat out denies any such thing?

All in all, I think Islamic theology is just the correct form of worship taught by the Prophets and the Messiah and fixes what Paul's Roman patrons ruined.

You just don't deify a human being, it's no different than worshipping JC, the other deified man Julius Caesar.

I am of literal Roman descent and I despise the Roman Catholic Church and it's nephew Protestantism that uses the same Gospels and is no better or worse.

The original Romans were tolerant, learning from Alexander the benefit of allowing each territory its gods.

Only Alexander understood that the Jews were forbidden by law from worshipping a man and as a consolation (so the story goes) promised to name every male child Alexander for a certain amount of time.

Salome Alexandra still had the name as Queen of Judea so it could be partially true. The Caesars however, would not relent and demanded worship.

I think they pulled a fast one on the Empire fooling people into worshipping a man. It's a religion based on the benefits of human sacrifice/deicide and ancestor worship.

Just look at the history of Rome, what was done to force people to accept every last word of their garbage theology.

Jesus was a true Muslim, he worshipped God alone and taught people how to live and be righteous.

Paul "corrected" Jesus, saying nobody is righteous, he died for your sins. The worlds grandest guilt trip and a lie as either he died or he is God and can't die, yet they insist both are true.

If anyone wants to make me God I would certainly say go ahead and become God by crucifixion, it would not be a sacrifice but a reward.

Twisted nonsense.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 02:37 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Malocchio




Originally posted by Malocchio
There is not much trustability in the writings of Eusebius who invented a man named Ebion to say was the founder of the Ebionites.

He would have had no problem lying about anything to please his masters and besides the original Hebrew Matthew they had a Gospel that Clement quotes as though it's the Gospel of the Hebrews but is clearly the Gospel of Thomas.


Hmmm…How do you know that’s it’s the “Gospel of Thomas” that was quoted…?


Because of Clement's quotes from it, they are quotes found in the Gospel of Thomas, unmistakably.






Originally posted by Malocchio
Also a Gospel of the Ebionites is quoted from so I doubt that their Gospel had anything to do with Matthew, Eusebius was not that bright really.


So you think the History that the Ebionites had a book of Matthew was either fabricated by Eusebius, or that Eusebius made a mistake or some kind of error…?


Eusebius is known for falsification of facts, either deliberately or because he was stupid, his status as a historian is not reputable at all.

He doesn't care about the truth at all, just protecting and promoting the official story. I really don't know if they had Matthew because our Matthew was written anonymously. They had their own scriptures, no question, but it is pro vegetarian and has Jesus calling the Holy Spirit his Mother.

That is believable because in Hebrew or Greek Wisdom is a her, always feminine. Chockma or Sophia and the Holy Spirit is Wisdom.






Originally posted by Malocchio
What does being a Muslim have to do with studying other religions? Did the US pass a law banning Muslims from reading Jewish books? (not like I would obey if)

There is no ban on scholarly study of religion in Islam, you have us confused with Orthodox Christianity. I have a book in my hand I just quoted from written by a Muslim about Christianity.

That's actually a little insulting to insinuate that because I am of one religion I can't learn about others, that's not what I am about.


I wasn’t insinuating anything, just asking a question that’s all…

I don’t have a problem with you personally reading and studying other books and religions etc…I think it’s great actually…more people should do the same…

I just thought Muslims stuck to the Hadiths, the Quran and the Old Testament…I’m not a Muslim so I wouldn’t know, which is why I was asking…

Also just to help explain my question a bit further, if for example you read various Apocalyptic texts and began to realise their esoteric and non-literal meanings, then surely that would have a knock on effect with your literal end times beliefs within Islam.


What the hell do I know about God's plan for the end of the world? I believe in judgement based on thoughts, words and deeds.

I don't personally know God, nobody does, but the Old Testament portrays him poorly and the New Testament is flawed by Paul and traditions so my thoughts on God are closest to Islam and I actually haven't read much Hadith, although Sahih is something I have found interesting I have read little.

Quran doesn't tell stories and mythology like Judeo-Christian literature that I enjoy, mostly the Apocrypha.

Qur'an is more along the lines of wisdom literature and is a lot less violent than Tanakh, I don't see how anyone could even say that it's a violent book when it advocates tolerance and clearly denounces violence and the Tanakh is possibly the most violent book in the world of religion.

I consider it as listening to God talking, which is what it is designed to read like and doesn't have the mythological aspects of the Bible, it's very different. There are myths in Islam about the Prophets of Judaism like Solomon and Enoch that are good, the Book of Rolls is an Arabic pre Islamic Clementine genre of scripture.

It's why I think that the Petrine/Jamesian brand of Christianity became Islam because Clement is a star in Ebionite literature, the whole genre is called Clementina and makes up most of the Apocrypha of the NT era that was denied canonization for political reasons.



This is just one example that I can think, which might impact your beliefs in Islam, there are probably many others.

Reading other teachings and ideas might clash with your own Islamic beliefs, some where down the line…that’s why I asked you that question… “how does that work exactly…?”


- JC




I don't even think about it, I like to read about religion and I collect books. Reading other religions scriptures has no effect on my being a Muslim whatsoever.

I enjoy the Nag Hammadi scriptures critical nature of the violent Tanakh myths, you can't deny logic and though I don't take any of the terrorist activities said to be committed by Yahweh literally I do agree that is no way to portray God.

I am aware of the original status of Yahweh as a Son of El Elyon and equate Allah with El Elyon Most High God and am far from the only Muslim that's disturbed by the portrayal of God in Tanakh and for that matter the Jewish people who are always vilified even in their own scriptures.

So I adopt the allegorical method and interpret it esoterically because that's how the Jews do it, they ridicule Christian hyper literalists, rightfully so imo.




posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 02:41 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio


Because of Clement's quotes from it, they are quotes found in the Gospel of Thomas, unmistakably.


i'd like a reference... IF you will


so my thoughts on God are closest to Islam


We?




posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 02:53 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

Now I know where you were getting your info on Paul from. from sources that want to enslave you to Islam. They always give away propaganda to make you a member.


I used the Bible and nothing but, save one quote from one book to offer the Islamic view of Paul because it's relevant.

If you want to think that I am enslavef to Islam you can, buy you are a sick and bitter man for doing so. You have no idea what you're talking about, now and 99.9% of the time. I sought out Islam, they didn't seek me and I am definitely not ''enslaved" being a free American who made a conscious decision.

You seem enslaved...to bitterness, grudges and a lack of knowledge. And Paul.



I have been to a mosque and yes they have definite religious attitude of prayer and religious attitudes even a religious attitude to put to death all who don't believe as they do.


Stop lying, nobody teaches that, the Qur'an forbids it and now you are being a lying propagandist, mad that a Muslim Knows your scriptures better than you and you are seething, desperate to say anything negative about me or Islam.

I feel sorry for you, you are obviously disturbed on various levels, making false statements like that while pointing the finger at Islam as a religion that teaches things it definitely doesn't.

Sad.



But it does not make it true.

We had a bible study this week and after words people prayed with each other and some gave forth From Gods word and it went on for over a hour. We not only felt peace but love, encouragement and exhortation, the presence of God our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Though God dwells in us it is nice when all the spiritual gifts are at work in a group and the Holy Ghost move as he did.



Your problem is this:

Having never experienced the Baptism of Spirit and fire you don't have the Holy Spirit, which is why you call her a ghost.

Anyone who knows the Spirit knows She is no ghost.

The Holy Spirit is Wisdom, something you will never have. You will always be angry, trolling religious threads spreading hate propaganda and showing how you don't comprehend the meaning of scripture.

Always.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:00 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Maybe Stromata?

Ante Nicene fathers vol. 2 or 3, Clement of Alexandria on Gospel of the Hebrews.

Seek and you will find, find and you will marvel, marvel and you will reign.


I may have butchered the quote because that's from memory but I know if you have read Thomas you know that quote.

Clement of Alexandria is the only pro Gnostic Church Father even writing the qualities of ''The true Gnostic" though not a Valentinian or Basilidian he did admire and even define the concept of the true Gnostic.

Origen is alright too, I am picky with the Church fathers because they are not all like Clement and Origen but I like reading the Ante Nicene fathers series.

Sacred-Texts.com or CCEL.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Malocchio


Because of Clement's quotes from it, they are quotes found in the Gospel of Thomas, unmistakably.


i'd like a reference... IF you will


so my thoughts on God are closest to Islam


We?



We what? You want my thoughts on God?

God is Good.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio


We what? You want my thoughts on God?


More like your thoughts on "we" are closest to islam... who is we?

Im sorry but i don't know much about your religion...

And the "reference" i was looking for was where clement quoted "thomas"... a few early "church" fathers did...

though not usually favorably...




posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:22 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: ChesterJohn



Originally posted by ChesterJohn
That is what they want you to think. But there god is an old god of the Arab tribes of Mecca known as the moon god, and it was said he had two daughters.


That Moon God stuff was debunked years ago. Come on, you’re not honestly still buying that nonsense are you…?

Muslims believe in all the Prophets from the OT…And they believe in those prophets because they promote and believed in the God of the OT…they even believe in the virgin birth too. It’s exactly the same God; They just have a different Title for God and view Jesus differently than Christianity does…

You can say they don’t accept Jesus in the same way Christianity does, but you can’t say they don’t believe in the one true God from the OT, because they do…




Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Allah recently is the god of war as 99% of the wars on the planted involve Islamist of varying degrees. ISIS is a great example of how warring their god is.


You can’t judge a few bad extremists, and say that applies to all of Islam and every other Muslim on the planet. Most Muslims are peaceful people…IMO

Many people quote the Quran out of context to try to show how violent or wicked it is, but I’ve seen most of those arguments broken down once one understands the deeper meanings behind it…

Of course I’m not a Muslim and I’m still learning, but I do understand that they believe in the same God as the other two Abrahamic faiths…




Originally posted by ChesterJohn
Do you think Jesus and Allah are the same?


Try looking at it this way…

Jehovah Witnesses don’t believe Jesus is God but they do believe in the God of the OT…Muslims don’t believe Jesus is God either, but they do believe in the God of the OT…


- JC




All true. Moon god, that was propaganda started by Zionism, the moon has always been feminine, in every pagan culture I have ever researched.

Chester John is...just plain full of crap, as usual reciting propaganda verbatim while making the accusation that Islam engages in propaganda.

Islam is a victim of mostly Christian Zionist and Zionist propaganda with the Palestinians getting evicted from their homes and countries for absolutely no reason other than evil fanaticism resulting from the Holocaust, that had nothing to do with Palestine.

The truth is out there and I definitely don't hate Jews or anyone but Israel is a stolen nation, plain and simple.

ISIS has nothing to do with Islam other than pretending to be Muslims.

Truthfully, I would not be surprised if Mossad created ISIS. They are treacherous.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:36 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Islam is simple, one God all powerful who spoke through generations of Prophets culminating in Islam with Mohammed (PBUH).

I don't like to speak on behalf of others as I am pretty sure everyone had their own particular thoughts.

If you want, Google the 5 pillars of Islam and read the Qur'an. Other than that it's basically the same as Christianity, minus Paul and the Trinity.

The only truly sacred book is the Qur'an, meaning recitation. Hadiths are used in varying degrees depending on your place of residence and some prefer not to use it.

Pray 5 times a day, fast periodically (Ramadan for instance) pilgrimage.

I am still learning myself, to be perfectly honest and I have only read the Qur'an which confirms Jesus as Messiah, the virgin birth and mentions Miriam more than the New Testament.

144,000 Prophets are said to have existed including Zoroaster and other unknown Prophets.

Islam was scientifically far more advanced than Europe prior to the Crusades and existed peacefully along side Jews and Christians before the Europeans invaded.

Al-Khem-y is Arabic in origin.

I don't know what else to tell you, I honestly have only been a Muslim for a year and it is a laid back low maintenance religion that doesn't ask much.



posted on Oct, 27 2016 @ 03:40 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

You will have to Google the exact location of Gospel of the Hebrews Clement of Alexandria, I don't know the page but I know it is vol 2 or 3 of the Ante Nicene fathers series available at CCEL or Sacred texts.com.

I know it's there though.




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