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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio


TextI hate evil and lies but I can forgive Paul and anyone else, I feel sorry for people who fall for the false teachings of Pauline theology.

You say that you can forgive Paul but then you have not forgiven Paul. But then it is not your authority to forgive Paul for his crimes against his Creator is it? Have you the authority to forgive the sins of a man against his creator? I hardly believe that is scriptural. Forgive the trespasses against you but judge no man unknowingly. What do you know of Paul as he gave his very life for the Creator?

That brings back to roost the questions I had asked. Once again, did not the Creator and James change the Torah? Who had the right to take away blood sacrifice from Torah? Who is the Creator that gave Torah? In your exhaustive studies of the scriptures you certainly must be able to answer a simple question such as I have asked.




posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

So what is your end game?

Surely, even if your philosophy contains the line, "Bashing Paul is the beginning of wisdom", there must be something to go on to. Unless, "Bashing Paul is the middle and end of wisdom" also.

So what is the point? Should all non-Jews be Muslim? Should all non-Jews be Noahides?

If you really care about the teachings of the Apostles then be a member of The Assyrian Church of the East ("Nestorian"), established in 33 A.D. by Theodos(Thaddaeus), Thomas, and Bartholomew, three of the original Apostles of Jesus.

It's a very interesting Church, they were the first Christians to get to China. From about AD 600-1300 they were quite strong in central and eastern Asia until they got wiped out by Muslims and Buddhists. When they got to China, Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism were already there, with Buddhism dominant. How, to bring a message relatable to China?


The Cross and the Lotus
Judging from the Nestorian Documents in Chinese, the first Christians in T’ang China saw themselves as bearers of a religious message they claimed to be universal. At the same time, they realized it carries with it the vocabulary and symbolism, which are in many respects alien to the Chinese. They proceeded therefore to explain and communicate their message to the people they found on the Eastern end of the Silk Route by making bold attempts in using the common currency of the T’ang society. The synthetic feature of the T’ang Nestorianism had been the studies of scholars for many years.
...
The term syncretism has had different meanings in the history of religions, depending on one’s viewpoint. In Western ideological disputes, syncretism was generally regarded as a betrayal of principles or as an attempt to secure unity at the expense of the truth. The syncretistic thinker was seen as a suspicious character, like a double agent, whose loyalty and commitment were absolutely questionable. They were charged by critics for incorporating other beliefs and practices to the extent of ignoring any inconsistencies which prevailed.

However, the term syncretism was derived from a historic incident in which the citizens of Crete overcame internal disputes and were bonded together to face a common enemy. In such a paradigm, views were not reconciled in an arbitrary or irrational way, but for the purpose of survival. As such, religious syncretism is seen not as arbitrary or irrational, but as serving a religious purpose. Syncretism in this sense assumes a firm foundation for religious authority. It is not simply a random mixing of elements into an idiosyncratic whole, but the incorporation of various elements into a home tradition. It tends to be highly selective in the process; a selection based on the particular religious needs and interests of the syncretistic thinkers and the historical and cultural contexts against which they emerged. Thus, syncretism requires that borrowed elements be reconciled, and be accommodated into the worldview and doctrines of the home tradition.

So Paul was the syncretist for the Jesus as Christ message to the Greco-Roman World. So what if he seems to many to be a double agent. That's what happens. So if you aren't Greco-Roman needing a Pauline synthesis to get to Jesus, then fine, find another pure Torah, pure prophet pure Jesus method. Then live it and preach it, if you feel so inclined.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Here here I give you star and thumbs up for that reply.


edit on 19-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:12 PM
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I want to point out the significance of Paul having been said to be of the tribe of Benjamin.


The Battle of Gibeah in the Book of Judges was caused by a Benjaminite raping to death a Levite's concubine and cutting her up in 12 pieces to send to different territories. Asked for justice the Benjaminites refuse and are massacred to the point of near extinction so the daughters of the dead men of Jabesh Gilead are given to them out of ''mercy'' because it was decided they should be allowed to exist.

The point is they aren't called the tribe of the wolf for nothing. Now Christ says beware the Wolf of the tribe of Benjamin (the wolf). The king wolf comes from Benjamin, the Wolf of wolves. And a wolf in sheep's clothing. Meaning he claims to be of Christ the Shepherd but his loyalty is to the wolf and the evil one.

And the leaven of the Pharisees is warned about and it doesn't mean bread or mishna it's another symbolic reference to the identity of the false prophet if your eye is clear. A Benjaminite and a Pharisee are two of the descriptions given about the false prophet for those with ears to hear.

Those are just 2 of the prophecies about the false prophet who will decieve many coming in Christ's name and finding favor with, ''if possible '', the elect (political rulers).

Make it 3 prophecies fulfilled in the New Testament later by Saul the Pharisee of the tribe of Benjamin who decieved many and was a mercenary for (illegally) the High priesthood. I don't think Rome cared about the tiny amount of pacifist Jews that followed Christ in the early 1st century and the only one who has a reason to fear Christ is a corrupt high priest so you had to be a radical terrorist to do the things Paul did if the accounts of murder and imprisonment over religious beliefs are believed.

You know this is not a guy you believe when he claims to have had visions and visitations from Jesus and/or God. He needs to be watched at all times as a former mercenary, assassin and cop. His story is terribly disturbing when you examine it closely.


But when prophecies point out his evil status ahead of time and he fullfills 2, 3 even, it is something to take notice of and investigate and when most reasonable people look through all the evidence in the non Pauline New Testament it is possible to connect Paul with the false prophets of Jesus prophecy in the first gospel and Revelation by then using his own words.

And there are other ways to do it using the pillar epistles of James, Peter and John (and Peter is not vouching for Paul in 2 Peter).

There are a ton of websites and documentaries and a great amount of people know about this and don't lose faith because it brings you closer to Christ.

When you cut Paul out of the position of church representative and place him in the position he belongs which is as a mole and madman false prophet you are left with the problem of: why are his epistles a part of the New Testament ?

I just consider it test. Loyalty is difficult to find and harder to trust. When a person who is loyal to Yeshua the Nazarene Messiah hears teachings that don't jive with his being taught in his name, and then claims of supernatural contact with a low life like Saul the Pharisee and his claimed conversion to Christ in the middle of the desert on his way to go persecute the disciples, they don't believe them because of the overwhelming evidence that Paul is a scumbag confirmed in his so called epistles .

I have just started using the so called Catholic epistles to expose Paul and I am surprised how much James and John especially reveal the identity of Paul as false prophet. He killed Stephen for nothing.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Go back and reread the Bible and study it GNOSISISFAITH you have already gone down that road before and we are tire of you nonsense.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

And I'm still waiting to hear his reply to Seede's question concerning James and Torah and animal sacrifice.

James, brother of Jesus was not a follower. 1 Corinthians 15, Paul wrote that the risen Jesus appeared to James. Seems to me that whatever authority James had as a Church leader was not different from the revelation to Paul.


edit on 19-9-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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Now let's look at the Gospel of Matthew the Apostle who gives us the scoop on the false prophet:

Chapter 24:23

"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or'There he is!--- do not believe it ' 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Paul made claims of working miracles and I don't say he is a false messiah, I say he is a false prophet who led astray even the elect. It gets clearer in:

26'' If they say to you, 'Look! He is in the wilderness' [desert], do not go out. If they say, 'Look! he is in the inner rooms' [secret], then do not believe it..

Paul claims to have secretly met Christ in the desert with the story told only in Acts and in 3 different ways that are irreconcilable and can't add up to all be true.

So that is maybe a clue left by Luke to get the more attentive reader to question the claim and further investigate as an honest yet genius author who could not come out and say Paul was a false prophet but he left clues for those with eyes to see.

But Matthew's false prophet is a perfect barely veiled description of Paul where Jesus says don't believe anyone who claims to have communicated with him (Jesus).

That means no Apostle is to believe anyone who claims to have communicated with the risen and ascended Christ. I don't think that the story of Paul's Damascus road trip was ever believed by the Pillars of Jerusalem but they were far too wise to let him know what they were thinking, something all wise men know not to do when faced with a lie. I find it incredibly impossible to believe that they would not connect Matthew 24:23-26 with Paul.
edit on 19-9-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: LucianusXVII
a reply to: Akragon

I don't have to watch, I have seen the video already as I am not a fan of Saul/Paul.

Did he invent it? No, he corrupted the Nazarenes and Ebionites


It is recorded in church history of a group called the Ebionites that had their own Gospel (it's called Matthew but also is a Gospel of the Ebionites) that has Yeshua as a human Messiah who became God's Son at Baptism when the Spirit descended upon him.

They considered Paul an apostate and enemy, false prophet. They believed in Christ but maintained their identity as Jews and were the descendants of the followers of James call the Poor which is what Ebion and Ebionim mean with Ebionim being plural.

When Paul says James told him to just remember the poor it was actually the Poor or Ebionim disciples. I don't know if this particular telling of events is credible because it's not corroborated by Acts but the gist is they go back to James and Jesus.

When Jesus says blessed are the poor in spirit he doesn't mean that people who are poor in spirit are blessed he means that the Ebionites in Spirit, are blessed.

Did I mention they called Paul an apostate, equal to a heretic?



version of Yeshua by teaching people that the Torah is dead, a curse and that even Jewish converts to the Nazarenes should stop observing Torah, i.e. stop being Jewish.

He told people who submitted to circumcision that they were bound to the Torah even though he forced Timothy to get circumcised (a Greek) and he payed lip service to the Apostles but defied them behind their backs.

But Marcion was the first Pauline Christian to publish the epistles and it would seem unlikely that they are not interpolated to suit the needs of Roman Catholicism and the originals destroyed.

So we'll never know if they are genuine, even the so called genuine epistles are suspect


You can get around the interpolations of the Apostolic epistles because they actually likely are based off genuine first century apostolic writings and sometimes it could be gotten away with, without naming him, exposing Paul.



You just need to listen to Jesus and the genuine Apostles teachings, Paul was a nobody and his writings stink and are opposed to the teachings of the Gospels.

What does that tell you?

James and Peter weren't Christians and neither was Jesus.


Not by today's standards, hell no. And his writings are worse than stink they are a sleazfest of rantings from a mad, jealous, hypocritical, egomaniacal, but not all that bright thug who was also a coward and afraid of James because he was so righteous and respected and a Nazarite Holy man (Eusebius) that could see Paul and his con game from ten miles away.



posted on Sep, 19 2016 @ 04:04 PM
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Let us not forget that Paul himself laments of his total rejection in Asia.


Now thst was the Church in that day, the 7 churches in Asia. Peter went to preach throughout the Roman Empire and had much success being the honorary first Pope of the Church while James was Bishop of Bishops and top dog in Judea and in fact the whole movement.

Peter was the diplomat.

John was in exile in the time of Nero when he wrote Revelation which in true John style exposes that Paul a false apostle congratulating the Ephesians for rejecting him and other false disciples.

Another passage condemns eating meat if It has been sacrificed to any idol, so right there Paul is busted.

He says because idols aren't real it doesn't matter and weaker brothers follow this Holy Spirit inspired (Acts) command, it isn't necessary for his disciples because they were "stronger" lol.

Jesus is actually pretty pissed at anyone and everyone who has been teaching this and compares them to that traitorous prophet friend of Balak who leads to the downfall of the Israelites, an excellent comparison. Astute observation if you have ever observed it prior to my revealing it now.

I would like to thank the OP for providing me with a venue to share my findings. I don't really have any interest in debating about Paul I just like adding my two cents. Since pearls of wisdom are recognized by the wise and seen as nothing to those on the other end of the spectrum I am comfortable with the accuracy and truthfulness of everything I've said to the point I don't require feedback so I apologize if anyone has asked a question and I haven't answered as I go straight to the first page and don't really read a lot of replies due to certain peoples...lack of knowledge??

I don't know. But thanks again op!! I have always wanted to participate in a discussion about Paul that wasn't a room full of people who didn't care about what the Bible said just how THEY interpreted it (poorly).

If you love Paul, all I can say is spend some time reading the New Testament from start to finish and hear the story of Paul as it really is told not as told to you by people who just quote the useful parts and ignore the rest. I feel like they are comfortable with a lie.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio


John was in exile in the time of Nero when he wrote Revelation which in true John style exposes that Paul a false apostle congratulating the Ephesians for rejecting him and other false disciples.


Your history is a bit off, John was exiled under emperor Domitian and released when he died. It was 92-95 AD. Peter and Paul were the apostles dealing with Nero, both were executed under his reign.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

My history is not off, yours is.

John's 666 was a numerical reference to Gematrical sum of Nero's name so he was writing in a time when Nero was definitely seen as a beast.

Nice try at nit picking through the vast amount of solid information I provided and attempting to find an error, however miniscule and insignificant even if it was (but it wasn't) true.

The 666 is Nero and since you mentioned it the sum total of Tarsus in Gematria is also 666 so the other beast is Paul and the third one is a reference to the Kingdom of Israel under Solomon as that number is associated with him through his yearly gold tribute and the hexagram. It was Jews expecting a Messiah to restore the glory of Solomon's Kingdom who were the third beast.

John didn't attempt to make Revelation easy to understand and says it requires wisdom to understand so you have to make connections with the clues he gives you and I am quite sure a better interpretation of the identity of the three beasts of Revelation would be extremely difficult and saying that my interpretation is not correct is impossible to prove because it makes perfect sense to anyone who has the specific wisdom of which John says is needed.

I hope you have a good day.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 05:58 AM
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If the Gospels and Acts followed by the epistles of Paul and then Pillars epistles are a test of loyalty with all the answers (if you read them) to make it fair and possible for someone who is loyal to Christ to realize that the story of Paul is the fulfillment of prophecy regarding false prophets coming in His name and are the false teachings of the most successful false prophet...

The book of Revelation is a test of Wisdom that can determine if one has the Spirit or not. If you have the Spirit from water Baptism you also have the fire Baptism of Wisdom which is the gift of the Spirit.

It's possible to go through the motions and not study with zeal your given scriptures, never realizing what is going on in the New Testament and thinking that Paul is an Apostle and be innocent because you are a doer of good and don't know better.

But some read the scriptures and then engage in a sort of damage control to pardon the obvious sins and deceptiveness of Paul. This is done because it's necessary for some that the Bible be an obvious upfront book. But it's always been a book of esoteric meaning and the literal story is not always representative of history like virgin births/born again and ressurection representing a reawakening of consciousness that is the goal of the new life that begins at Baptism.

Jesus had teachings that are lost on the majority today and it's a shame as if they were even tried to be followed the world would probably work properly. The Gospels are esoteric legend but the Gospel of Thomas is a list of Wisdom sayings of Jesus recorded by Judas Thomas his twin. Some were used by the Canonical Gospel writers and some were kept secret because it's a fact of life that people are of higher and lower levels of wisdom and some are only occupied with mundane things while others look for the meaning beyond the obvious things.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Pauls and Peter's ''dealings with Nero'' are not historical but legend taken from Apocrypha that is not considered inspired enough to belong to the Canon meaning that nobody took it seriously except Eusebius who makes one reference to the deaths of Peter and Paul.

The truth is nobody knows how Paul died and the same is likely for Peter.

Neither one ever had any dealings with Nero personally and the only Apostle who mentioned him was John in Revelation. Paul never says a word and John writes in code.

It's common sense that John was warning the 7 churches about Nero with 666 and well known.

The other two Beasts are harder to determine but when you apply 666 to the other two Beasts it's obvious who John means.

He also speaks symbolically about Romes 7 hills so he is occupied in using symbolic imagery to describe the enemies of the Church and not end times prophecy.

4 horsemen are the 4 kingdoms of Daniel and Rome is ''Babylon'' all over for the Jews.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: pthena

I would agree.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: pthena

I would agree.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: pthena

I would agree.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

It is quite easy to see when someone comes to the Bible with a slant/preconceived idea then seeks to prove it as correct. that is what you are doing.

the second thing is that if you believe as I do God kept his word to preserve his word to every generation (ps 12:6,7) he did so without error and without preserving false texts.

The reason Paul's letters are between the apostles of the gospel of the Kingdom is because God is showing by inspiration of the Canon of Scripture that there is an age of grace between Jesus Christ's two comings. God by preservation and example did as he instructed us in (2 Tim 2:15) to rightly divide the word of truth.

So the fasle teaching is in your parroting claim that John tells us who false prophets are after Paul's writings.

Anyone who does not believe God preserved his words to every generation does not believe any part of the word of God.



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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oops DP

edit on 20-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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oops DP
edit on 20-9-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2016 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

That's a lot of agreeing.


I had to get a new mouse once when the left button got worn out to the point that every time I clicked, it sent a double click. Lots of double posts. Now my 'L' key is worn out, I have to push it rather firmly. I think my cat must have stepped on it one too many times.



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