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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 02:44 AM
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originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml


Mark 7:14-23

10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Seems relevant to the whole meat sacrifice to idols idea.

The whole thing about Paul bringing up not eating meat sacrificed to idols in front of weak brothers reminds me about those who smoke the Devil's Lettuce.Is it wrong in itself?Not necessarily.However smoking it among others who have had challenges with moderation could be considered being a negative influence.I feel he was pointing to the treating others as ourselves with due consideration.Like drinking needlessly around alcoholics or offering them drinks when you know they are battling it.



You don't understand what is important about not eating idol meat (apparently).

The Holy Spirit is the author of the decree. Read the Jerusalem Council in Acts and it's outcome was four decrees. It is said outright that James consulted the Holy Spirit.

To teach that it's permissible is to teach contrary to the Holy Spirit. You analogy is lacking because Paul calls the people who obey the HOLY SPIRIT in this decree "Spiritually weak."

Obviously Paul has no respect for James or the Holy Spirit as how hard is it to not eat idol meat?

You also seem unaware that Jesus condemned the teaching of Paul in Revelation calling it the ''doctrine of Balaam.''

How off you are in rationalizing away the decrees of the Holy Spirit by comparing it to smoking lettuce. You simply are not understanding that the Holy Spirit is the one who said this and Jesus confirms it.

Typical Christian rationalizing not backed up by scripture designed to make Paul seem justified.

Calling the Spirit's decrees "spiritually weak" is not something that can be rationalized.




posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 03:01 AM
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no...paul did not invent what we call christianity. read chapter of acts of the new testament. he did however help spread the word to an entire generation. he signed on to do so after having the original "come to jesus" moment, but be assured that he lost his head. if you knew what he did, you may even be willing to lose your head! sounds nuts, but here we are today....people losing their heads just like old times. it was different back then....when it comes to people and faith. people actually believed and were willing to die trying to share the biggest secret of all with others. love never fails.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: milano

yep



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 03:08 AM
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a reply to: milano

Heh. Have you read this thread?

You seem to have not even looked at the evidence and are offering no more than opinion claiming that Acts supports it.

Acts is the best book for proving the opposite of what you just said. That Paul was rejected in Asia and "forbidden by the Holy Spirit" from preaching in Asia (16:6).

That Paul has no respect for James OR the Holy Spirit is proven when comparing Acts to Paul's own words.

Pay attention friend. You just might learn something.
edit on 17-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

That is exactly the point. You all claim Luke recorded Paul eating meat sacrificed to an idol but not once can you show int he Bible that he did. But you want me to quote only Jesus if I use the Bible.

hypocrisy and a false narrative that is all you have to offer.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 06:47 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft

look at the context of the verse Paul says exactly why he was abandoned in Rome, they were ashamed of his chain. H claimed only Onesiphorus was not. He was a representative of the Church in Ephesus

2Ti 1:15 ¶ This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.


People have rejected people for crazier reasons today you can find lots of it happening.

Minister is easy to get the meaning. Paul ministered the gift to the saints in Jerusalem. Onesiphorus ministered the gift to Paul in Rome. Just study out the word in the NT. the base meaning is one giving to another whether it be the word of God or clothing or money.

2Co 8:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
2Co 9:1 ¶ For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
The ministering tot he saints was with a money collected for them.

You wont find any of this type of teaching in the Gospels but this we do know they to collected money in ministering, and they spoke of giving to the poor just as Paul did.

Mt 26:8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
Mr 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Joh 12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

edit on 17-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I went back to my notes from last year to see exactly where I first thought Paul was not right.

1 Corinthians 11.

Paul demands woman cover their heads and be submissive to their husbands. Many fundamental Churches still enforce all but the head covering (they wouldn't be able to dis Islam otherwise!).

My notes read:

Starting to get legalistic.

Then Paul says in 15:56 that sin gets its power from the Law (Torah).

"The sting of death is sin [wtf?], and the power of sin is the Law [Torah]."

Right there Paul is saying to any Jew reading that the Torah is from where sin derived its power.

The Law of God is the source of power for sin?

I don't think so. The Law of God is the Torah, and while I am no fan of literalism in the Torah Jesus set the Law in the form of two commandments fulfilling all by loving God and your neighbor but especially God.

That's the Law in the movement at the time of Paul's writings. Certainly not the source of sin's power but its defeat.

Paul also thinks two commandments are too many I guess because in his version loving your neighbor alone fulfills the Law.

Directly contradicting Jesus who said Love God is the First and most important commandment.

I wonder how the compilers of the New Testament felt about the obvious flaws in Paul's teachings, they seem to have selectively quoted from him and never acknowledge the context.

Not very honest. think Tertullian was the only one to question Paul because of Marcion. The law of two witnesses alone is enough to reject Paul, he has zero.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

That is exactly the point. You all claim Luke recorded Paul eating meat sacrificed to an idol but not once can you show int he Bible that he did. But you want me to quote only Jesus if I use the Bible.

hypocrisy and a false narrative that is all you have to offer.


Wow I can recite from memory when Paul said: (paraphrase)

An Idol is nothing. So as long as your spiritually weak brothers are not around it's ok to eat it. I don't remember the passage but I know you know it exists and I'll find it.

Now at the Jerusalem Council the Spirit decreed it forbidden to eat idol meat. the Holy Spirit through James as recorded in Acts decreed it.

Paul teaches against the decrees of the Spirit and violates his agreement to follow the 4 decrees for goyim. He doesn't honor his agreements.

And nobody said Luke records him eating it, it is Paul himself that says it is OK and it is condemned by Jesus in Revelation as the doctrine of Balaam.

Paul is Balaam. Luke records the decree of the Spirit that Paul fails to honor saying of the Apostles they "Added nothing [taught him nothing] to me.''

How arrogant can you be? Paul that is.

Check and mate CheserJohn.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

1 Corinthians 8 is the chapter where Paul, against the Holy Spirit and the decree of the Jerusalem Council he teaches it's OK as long as the "weak" brothers aren't around.

Translation:

Do it, but don't get caught. can't afford to have James find out I'm teaching against the Holy Spirit.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You are mixing up two radically different experiences.

The physical appearing of God, be that fire, cloud, the Angel of the Lord, and Jesus - is obviously not lethal.

This is because God is Spirit, ie exists beyond the physical, it is impossible to see God in the physical. Further depending on the degree of Glory present, even this can be lethal in the physical, hence Moses didn't see God's face when Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments on the Tablets.

A physical experience is not the same as when after death the spirit returns to God. Unencumbered the spirit no longer sees through a glass darkly but has full exposure to God, this is refining fire of the bible.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

the elders in Jerusalem gave a suggestion called ordinances by Paul not a decree and they had no way to enforce it even if they wanted too.

You may have paraphrased a scripture but you did not recite any scripture word for word of Paul from memory. Besides unless we are face to face I cannot nor can anyone else verify you actually recited the words of Paul or not?



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Again Your Opinion and not fact. Try quoting the AV or any version for that matter as your source of anyone including Paul ever ate meat offered to and Idol. It is always an opinion that some once did it because Paul addresses the issue. But no real proof Paul or Peter did it.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Paul's instructions re Head coverings are location specific for this time, they aren't a general ruling. It amazes me that people seem to forget these are letters to... xyz, so while they contain global truths, they also refer to specific problems and issues of the people to whom they are addressed.

1Co 15:56 Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;

Absolutely agrees with

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Num 15:31  Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him. 

"The Law of God is the source of power for sin?"

Of course it is, because God is the source of the Law. God is the source of ALL power, there is no other power but God. God cedes to man power, and man cedes this power to sin/Satan.

This happens by the natural law of Justice - for God is just. Deu_32:4  He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

The LORD makes this abundantly clear,
Deu 28:15  But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 

Sin brings about the curse. Transgression of the Law brings about the curse. Ergo no supremacy of law, no curse.

God further makes clear that the curse proceeding from the law, that comes from God, is return of wickedness to the wicked.

Isa 3:11  Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him. 

Ie Pro 1:31  Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. 

and Gal 6:7  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 

and Mar_4:24  And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Power is neutral, without intent, purpose and consequence it is neither Good ie Lawful or bad ie sinful.

So yes the Power of Sin to curse us comes from God, and can come from nowhere else. The fault however remains 100% ours.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: RudeCherubHe over looks the historical cultural issue of the day and that later Paul said they have no such custom in the church. The first because his belief is the Bible is not historical fact but fiction and the second because it wont play into his narrative.

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
See how Paul puts the issue to rest for those like Malocchino who want to be contentious over the issue.


edit on 17-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: MalocchioHow does matrixsurvivor even know you have notes unless you two personally know each other if that is true then you both are consorting to pervade ATS with this doctrine and proves you are Gnosisisfaith.



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:56 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: MalocchioHow does matrixsurvivor even know you have notes unless you two personally know each other if that is true then you both are consorting to pervade ATS with this doctrine and proves you are Gnosisisfaith.


my Now your just paranoid.

I told him in this thread, lol, why do you wish look like a kook?

Are you so desperate that you form conspiracies without all the facts?

Go back, the message where I mentioned my notes occurs twice.

Heh heh. You make this so much fun!!!



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: Malocchiognosisisfaith many of us know this is your new persona. new device maybe or another way your got around being banned but it wont be long and we wont see you around but yet maybe a new ATS with another opinionated ATS User account posting the same nonsense we have seen over the last year. So it still doesn't prove you even keep notes. If we are not there to see them first hand.


edit on 17-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: RudeCherub

Rationalizing won't work.

Point:

The Holy Spirit decreed absolutely no eating of idol meat.

Point:

Paul makes up a reason (lies,) why it's OK.

Point:

Paul's teaching about Idol meat is against the decree of the Holy Spirit.

Point:

You can't make it go away.

Final point:

Christ condemned this specific teaching in Revelation calling it the ''doctrine of Balaam.

And you think your words fix the obviously anti Holy Spirit anti Christ teaching that idol meat is kosher?

Sorry, your wrong and it is evident. Nothing can erase the fact that a condemned by the Holy Spirit and Jesus teaching was taught by Paul.

Deal with it. You can't overrule the Holy Spirit or Jesus so why try? A dmit the fact.
edit on 17-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchiognosisisfaith many of us know this is your new persona. new device maybe or another way your got around being banned but it wont be long and we wont see you around but yet maybe a new ATS with another opinionated ATS User account posting the same nonsense we have seen over the last year. So it still doesn't prove you even keep notes. If we are not there to see them first hand.



You are obviously obsessed with someone who is not me but whatever.

Why do you care so much about my notes?

I shared my first thought that said Paul was a false prophet, end of story.

I do a lot of writing and reading and have tons of notes.

And that you doubt their existence is nutty.

Your irrelevant to me, except that you help prove Paul is a false prophet.
edit on 17-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2016 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Malocchioyeah only the fact that the same words even on this reply post are the exact same as gnosisifaith/daysend and all your other personas you have had. Same exact source for your materials same exact MO. right down to saying I am irrelavent to you exactly what many of your other account names said when I fought against your heresy then and now.

All I have done ins prove you are false teacher and a twister of the scriptures.


edit on 17-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



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