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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Please at least you could quote all the places where I did show your teaching false. So that the people can see I am wrong. But byt he context it will prove you are wrong.

Need I list those posts here?

ok here is the latest. www.abovetopsecret.com... last post on the page. I have a Bible study to go to now so why don't you post the other two posts I made.


posted on Oct, 15 2016 @ 02:35 AM
a reply to: MalocchioWater Baptism for forgiveness and the aquiring of the Spirit leading to the fire Baptism where your personal chaff is buned away and you are purified in the Baptism of Fire.


I love it when people divorce scripture form its context to create a false doctrine (whether they intended it to be false or not). The one you speak of has been hijacked from liberal Christian church doctrine that believe the baptism with fire is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Nothing could be further from the truth.

But if we take the ONE verse that has the baptism with fire in it and place it back into its context even a 10 year old can see that the baptism with fire is Judgement fire.

The subject and context at hand starts in Matthew chapter 3 verse 7 and finishes ends in verse 12. (I will use only Matthew because there are so many instances of Jesus using the word fire that I would have to place a wall of text no one wants to read through).

You can see right away that John is preaching the gospel of the Kingdom (see Matthew 3:1,2 all with in the context) and it requires fruit meet for repentance. First mention of fire is in verse 10, some when he comes to judge as one with a fan which separates those Jews that are righteous from those who are unrighteous he gathers his and gives them the Holy Ghost and he send those who are not to be burned with fire.

Matt 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


I wonder what fire it could be? Jesus spoke of that fire more often than any other Historical Bible person.

Funny how Jesus teaches the same thing to ISRAEL that John did about trees bringing forth good fruit, John called it the fruit of repentance. (side Note, Men are mentioned to be like trees throughout scripture BTW).

Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mt 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


All fire when not mentioned as being used for cooking or warming, is judgement, whether it be the fire on the altar that consumes the sacrifice or the Pseudo-interpretation of Matthew 3:11 of the baptism with fire, it speaks of his judgement. the fire here in Matthew 3 is not a purifying of ones personal chaff but one of separation and destruction.




posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Well you quote a post but what is interesting is that you left out all the scripture I showed where you were wrong.

Amazing what deceivers will do.

Please veryone who reads this post go to my reply on thread page 32 to Akragon and read the post there Malocchino has left out all the scriptures I quoted in context that show the Apostles trust Paul, not rejected him. And that the churches in Ephesus the first church listed in Rev 1:11 was a place Paul taught. Just read the letter to the Ephesians found int he New Testament.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

No where in Bible does it say Simon was from Phoenicia he was living in Galilee where he was called. And was ordained in Nazareth to be sent forth to preach the kingdom Gospel to the half breed Jews in Samaria.

You reject the Bible over the words of men.


Go therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

Then He said to them, "Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the gospel to the whole creation.

Are you rejecting Jesus' words over Paul's? Cause seems like Jesus told ALL the TWELVE (that would not include Paul), to take HIS KINGDOM GOSPEL (good news) to THE WHOLE WORLD.
It was Paul who said he was the apostle to the gentiles and the true disciples/apostles were to minister to "those of the circumcision". Jesus NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, said that.
So, it's you who are choosing Paul's word over Jesus'.




edit on 16-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






. And that the churches in Ephesus the first church listed in Rev 1:11 was a place Paul taught. Just read the letter to the Ephesians found int he New Testament.


Paul taught there, yea....guess what happened to him, though? Did you miss when he wrote this to Timothy?

"You know this, that ALL THOSE IN ASIA turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes." (2nd Timothy 1:15)

Ephesus was one of the seven churches of Asia that are cited in the Book of Revelation. You know, the one JESUS commended those in Ephesus and told them this.....

Revelation 2:2
2 ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;

So, PAUL wrote a letter to the "Ephesians", whom we read later in Paul's letter to Timothy that ALL THOSE IN ASIA (which would include Ephesus) TURNED AWAY from Paul. Then, you have JESUS Himself commending the Ephesian believers for putting to the test, false apostle(s) and "turning away" from them......
What is your explanation now?



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






I love it when people divorce scripture form its context to create a false doctrine (whether they intended it to be false or not). The one you speak of has been hijacked from liberal Christian church doctrine that believe the baptism with fire is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Nothing could be further from the truth.


Whaaaaa?????

Once again, the HS is not a "ghost".
Once again, the person in the Bible who "divorces scripture from it's context to create a false doctrine"...IS PAUL.




All fire when not mentioned as being used for cooking or warming, is judgement, whether it be the fire on the altar that consumes the sacrifice or the Pseudo-interpretation of Matthew 3:11 of the baptism with fire, it speaks of his judgement.



And "baptism with fire" IS BEING FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. If it happens to you, you dang well know that's what it is.
The Holy Spirit (or Shekinah...which is FEMININE) is represented as fire, too....

2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Acts 2:2-4
edit on 16-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn






I love it when people divorce scripture form its context to create a false doctrine (whether they intended it to be false or not). The one you speak of has been hijacked from liberal Christian church doctrine that believe the baptism with fire is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Nothing could be further from the truth.


Whaaaaa?????

Once again, the HS is not a "ghost".
Once again, the person in the Bible who "divorces scripture from it's context to create a false doctrine"...IS PAUL.
And "baptism with fire" IS BEING FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. If it happens to you, you dang well know that's what it is.
The Holy Spirit (or Shekinah...which is FEMININE) is represented as fire, too....

2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. Acts 2:2-4


Amen.

To Chester:

I realize it must be frustrating being forced to endure the truth regarding your beloved (false prophet).

There is however hope as the ''God" you believe in, that monster Yahweh, is not God but the concepts of some disturbed people of antiquity put to paper.

He won't be judging us on our acceptance of the doctrine of sacrificial atonement. He won't be punishing Jews for not accepting Jesus as Messiah or Hindus for...not being members of your religious school of thought.

And he won't be punishing you for being deceived by Rome and their false apostle Paul.

Judgement is based on your life.

If you were good, honest and not evil you will be fine. If not... who knows.

One thing is for certain, he is not so ridiculous as to judge based on willingness to accept false teachings from a false prophet.

Accept Paul's teachings or go to hell?

Send me to hell!!!



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio






Accept Paul's teachings or go to hell? Send me to hell!!!


Amen to that! (and I don't use that word much anymore, lol)

The rest you wrote is so true, as well.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

Please at least you could quote all the places where I did show your teaching false. So that the people can see I am wrong. But byt he context it will prove you are wrong.


The people know. I am pretty much tired of explaining things to someone who would not believe it if Jesus told them in person.

I don't know what else I need to say. If I have said anything untrue quote it and ''expose" me. Otherwise I am through with your hostility and insults, false accusations and claims.



Need I list those posts here?

ok here is the latest. www.abovetopsecret.com... last post on the page. I have a Bible study to go to now so why don't you post the other two posts I made.


posted on Oct, 15 2016 @ 02:35 AM
a reply to: MalocchioWater Baptism for forgiveness and the aquiring of the Spirit leading to the fire Baptism where your personal chaff is buned away and you are purified in the Baptism of Fire.


I love it when people divorce scripture form its context to create a false doctrine (whether they intended it to be false or not). The one you speak of has been hijacked from liberal Christian church doctrine that believe the baptism with fire is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Nothing could be further from the truth.

But if we take the ONE verse that has the baptism with fire in it and place it back into its context even a 10 year old can see that the baptism with fire is Judgement fire.

The subject and context at hand starts in Matthew chapter 3 verse 7 and finishes ends in verse 12. (I will use only Matthew because there are so many instances of Jesus using the word fire that I would have to place a wall of text no one wants to read through).

You can see right away that John is preaching the gospel of the Kingdom (see Matthew 3:1,2 all with in the context) and it requires fruit meet for repentance. First mention of fire is in verse 10, some when he comes to judge as one with a fan which separates those Jews that are righteous from those who are unrighteous he gathers his and gives them the Holy Ghost and he send those who are not to be burned with fire.

Matt 3:7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


I wonder what fire it could be? Jesus spoke of that fire more often than any other Historical Bible person.

Funny how Jesus teaches the same thing to ISRAEL that John did about trees bringing forth good fruit, John called it the fruit of repentance. (side Note, Men are mentioned to be like trees throughout scripture BTW).

Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mt 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


All fire when not mentioned as being used for cooking or warming, is judgement, whether it be the fire on the altar that consumes the sacrifice or the Pseudo-interpretation of Matthew 3:11 of the baptism with fire, it speaks of his judgement. the fire here in Matthew 3 is not a purifying of ones personal chaff but one of separation and destruction.


I will address one thing as I don't feel like wasting my morning debating with a know it all who understands...little (in reality).

Baptism of fire is a good thing. You associate fire with hell but the only reason is that hell has a lake of fire (lava?)

Fire is a symbol of Wisdom and purity and just because you equate it with hell doesn't mean JTB and Jesus did.

"With Spirit and with fire." Is how John described Jesus Baptism and Jesus Baptism is good not bad.

The Fire that burns the chaff isn't burning people but purifying them, ridding them of imperfections.

You could use it.

If I were to count the number of times you have insulted me in this thread I would have to retire just to find time.

I would say it's un Christian but it's actually very Christian to insult and hate everything that isn't textbook Christianity like Islam and Judaism and everything under the sun that questions it (Christianity).

Why do Christians hate everything and pretend they don't?

Liars imitating Paul.
edit on 16-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I also don't like the word Amen because it's meaning is maybe not what we've been told.

I use it to say "Let it be true!!!" or "It is so."

It's the given meaning and I've yet to find a replacement word other than just saying ''Let it be so" which most people don't quite get when I say it.

Sometimes you have to accept misnomers and the non name equivalent. Like Gnostic or Sufi or the names given by enemies that have stuck.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I also don't like the word Amen because it's meaning is maybe not what we've been told.

I use it to say "Let it be true!!!" or "It is so."

It's the given meaning and I've yet to find a replacement word other than just saying ''Let it be so" which most people don't quite get when I say it.

Sometimes you have to accept misnomers and the non name equivalent. Like Gnostic or Sufi or the names given by enemies that have stuck.



Yea, I hear ya. I have avoided speaking "Christianese" like the plague lately, lol.
You explained the "Paul being false" extremely well, and you are right...some realize it, some don't...or flat out refuse to.
The first time I ever was exposed to the idea of Paul being false, was over 10 years ago. My initial knee-jerk reaction was FEAR. I shut down the thought of that quick! Because, if Paul wasn't a true apostle...then that meant the Bible wasn't inerrant, which meant, "OH MY GOSH!!"..now what do I do??
Fast forward a decade and a few years, much more time reading the Bible, and much more time seeing the hypocrisy in Christianity itself (and a ton of other things I experienced and learned)...to one day, being so disgusted with ANOTHER Roman's 13 message at church, that I went home and just googled "Paul, false apostle".
I found out mighty quick, that I wasn't the only person who loved God and Jesus, who had issues with Paul. I always had, but Christianity indoctrinates the heck out of you...to the point of being AFRAID to even trust your own intuition and the Holy Spirit who is trying to get a word in over all the myriad of "pastor's, preachers, teachers, and other Christians".....oh, and PAUL, lol.


edit on 16-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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Fire is both Judgement AND God.

Deu 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. 

Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire. 

This is a great example of how to get it wrong 101.

Exo 13:21  And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: 

As Jesus said.
Mat 13:41  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 
Mat 13:42  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 
Mat 13:43  Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear
As Paul explains
1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
As John in Revelation confirms
Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire
Rev 2:11 The one who has an ear, hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. The one overcoming will not at all be hurt by the second death. [Rev 21:8 ...the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.]

God is Spirit. Spirit can appear within many forms, fire and cloud are among the primary ones, the most important is however when Spirit takes on human form, specifically the Angel of the Lord, called by the Jews God's Son, but above all these is the once and for all one time - child born, the son given.

It was precisely because God appeared to Israel as both Cloud and Fire etc., that necessitated Deu 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 

Then and now there is a danger of seeing individual attributes of God, or God's variety of appearances as indicative of difference or distinction. It's a form of idolatry that places the temporary visible physical world, that is limited to three dimensions over and above the invisible eternal extra-dimensional spiritual reality.

Hence the necessity to state God is one, that God is Spirit, and so is not fully/truly visible in physical terms, at best can be glimpsed, ie No one has seen God at any time - however it is possible in spirit and truth - a state of enlightenment - to recognise the true and greater nature of God that cannot be seen in Physical terms ie as Jesus said "The one seeing Me has seen the Father!" where seeing = to use a modern word, grokking. He who has grokked me has grokked the Father.

God could appear as a trillion trillion different forms and a trillion trillion voices a trillion trillion times and God would still be One indivisible Spirit.
Deu 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, the One above all and through all and in you all.
Joh 4:23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 
Joh 4:24  God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

It's worth noting that biblically the term Father refers to the invisible spirit, the Father of spirits, the Father of lights, the Everlasting Father etc, where *the* Son [as opposed to sons of God] refers to the Angel of the Lord, and especially the child born, the son given, once and only birth/incarnation of God. Hence Jesus' uses the title Father in a figurative - that is as a parable characterisation. [Although it's also true in a biological sense - not so much the Grandfather Paradox, but the Son Paradox].

The Father is but a title of Jesus, owned by Spirit, [as Isaiah affirms IS 9:6] and does not refer to a distinct separate spiritual identity, rather - again for quite obvious reasons - Jesus makes a distinction between his visible flesh with it's native needs wants and desires, that often are at odds with his invisible Spirits determination, but these natural emotions - such as fear in the Garden of Gethsemane are always subject to the Father ie the Spirit, so the body of the man always does God's predetermined will. As Jesus said "I do nothing of myself" in this case the myself is his physical form, the body acting out the determination of the Father - God, His Spirit.

This Spirit is God is simultaneously fully within the flesh body of Jesus, and fully outside of it, and fully through all things, and fully containing all things, while being greater than all things. All thing includes time itself.
For this reason Paul says Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily ie Joh 14:9 The one seeing Me has seen the Father!



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

My story is similar but more abrupt.

I thought I knew a lot about the Bible... people at Church told me so. People who had been in the Church many years to my not even being an accepted member.

I knew a little. I asked the Church to Baptize me and they refused publicly humiliating me in the process.

I went home and Baptized myself. I decided I was going to master the Bible and write the "Christian Zohar" (I have semi grandiose ambitions). I found a website that broke down the Bible into 365 portions Old and New Testament each and went to town.

I look back at my notes during the Pauline phase of my studies and it says "Jesus hardly dead and he is already making new rules?" and I laugh.

That was probably when I Googled ''Paul, false Apostle" and hit paydirt. I actually don't remember what it was exactly that made me suspicious but thankfully someone before me did the job of organizing it on a webpage.

I think the Holy Spirit gave me the nudge because it was a while after my self Baptism that I figured out many things that rocked my world view in a good way.

I never had a crisis of faith because I always wanted the little known facts that nobody really knows. I was ecstatic to find so many people who had the same experience.

I mean, if you can discover the fraud of Christianity and get to the truth and not become an atheist you have a special faith; Faith.

The evidence of this is the uncanny like mindedness of the individuals who reject Paul. They no longer hate every other religion and competing Christianity and develop a hunger for knowledge like I have nothing to compare with.

And logic and reason return. The Holy Spirit is at work and it might seem an ishty thing to say but it was for a reason said:

Cast not pearls before swine.

Now I know why.


This all happened in a year for me, a good year, last year so its been about a year since I figured out Paul was false.

Thank Christ.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: RudeCherub

And Judgement requires Wisdom.

Fire is not a symbol of judgement when it's the Baptism of Fire of Christ.

The Baptism of Fire is like Pentecost but less silly. It's when you aquire the Holy Spirit of Wisdom and Truth and become pure and your mind becomes able to comprehend the mysteries of God and able to bare Divine Truths.

It's Spiritual maturity and occurs in the mind of the seeker of Truth. At Baptism the Spirit is given. Once the Spirit is in you you become full of Wisdom and Understanding (if you are a pure intentioned seeker of God).



edit on 16-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

I gotta say, even if you weren't a rude and intolerant person who insults people and makes false accusations:

Your version of Christianity just sounds horrible. I have never come across a more backwards mode of thought than that which you have consistently offered.

Not even run of the mill Christians believe most of the nonsense you spout as doctrine. Dividing Truth? Come on dude!

Anyone knows you don't divide the truth or the Word of Truth in Christianity and your Bible only says divide all the others except maybe one say interpret or a synonym of that.

Needless to say nothing to make a false doctrine out of never mind a real one and you are obsessed with the passage.

Yet you can't explain what it is or who is being given the divisions and what the divisions are because it's not even what Paul meant!!!

I can interpret your false prophet better and more accurately than you!!!😂



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

My story is similar but more abrupt.

I thought I knew a lot about the Bible... people at Church told me so. People who had been in the Church many years to my not even being an accepted member.

I knew a little. I asked the Church to Baptize me and they refused publicly humiliating me in the process.

I went home and Baptized myself. I decided I was going to master the Bible and write the "Christian Zohar" (I have semi grandiose ambitions). I found a website that broke down the Bible into 365 portions Old and New Testament each and went to town.

I look back at my notes during the Pauline phase of my studies and it says "Jesus hardly dead and he is already making new rules?" and I laugh.

That was probably when I Googled ''Paul, false Apostle" and hit paydirt. I actually don't remember what it was exactly that made me suspicious but thankfully someone before me did the job of organizing it on a webpage.

I think the Holy Spirit gave me the nudge because it was a while after my self Baptism that I figured out many things that rocked my world view in a good way.

I never had a crisis of faith because I always wanted the little known facts that nobody really knows. I was ecstatic to find so many people who had the same experience.

I mean, if you can discover the fraud of Christianity and get to the truth and not become an atheist you have a special faith; Faith.

The evidence of this is the uncanny like mindedness of the individuals who reject Paul. They no longer hate every other religion and competing Christianity and develop a hunger for knowledge like I have nothing to compare with.

And logic and reason return. The Holy Spirit is at work and it might seem an ishty thing to say but it was for a reason said:

Cast not pearls before swine.

Now I know why.


This all happened in a year for me, a good year, last year so its been about a year since I figured out Paul was false.

Thank Christ.


Dude, I'd hug you if I could, lol. You are speaking my heart. When I asked to know Jesus, I was rocked to my core by the Spirit. At the time, I didn't even know what it was. But boy, was it intense. I picked up on Paul's contradictions of Jesus pretty quickly. I just didn't know what to do with it. I wasn't involved in any church for at least a year. I just read the Bible like crazy, mostly the Psalms, gospels, and prophets. Paul was irritating, nonsensical, and seemed so full of himself that I thought, "how can he be so arrogant if he actually MET the same Jesus and was filled with the same Spirit I had?"
Well, once I did get involved in church, it was a constant wrestling match in my spirit to ignore what the TRUE SPIRIT was and had been trying to show me all along, vs all the indoctrination you get sitting in one of those buildings. Uhg.
Thankfully, I had a belly full a few years ago and googled it, too. Same as you, I'd already seen much of what someone else compiled on a website, but it was awesome to see I wasn't the only one who saw it.
It's also really cool to find and speak with someone like you (and the others on here) who see through Paul.
Yea, that judgmental attitude that Paul brings out in you, goes away. It's no longer "us against them" mentality.
Thanks so much.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I can't set foot in a Christian Church nowadays, I just want to tell people about Paul. I can't resist. My sister got sick of it then figured it out. She doesn't like to discuss it but she knows.

The only person I like that works for a church is this good priest who feeds hundreds of people a day quality food for ten or more years. He knows little about the Bible but is a person of works and I don't discuss Paul with him because it would be pointless, but he is a good guy.

Other than that I am repulsed by Christianity. Even when they do good deeds they lord it over the beneficiaries and make them feel their neediness.

Ironically Catholics on the local level do a lot of good and are good, trustworthy people who focus more on Jesus than Protestants and if not for the history and bad deeds I would like Catholicism. I like the veneration of Mary as the Queen of Heaven and statues don't bother me or the adopted pagan imagery.

I just can't stand Paul. Or Catholic Priests except that one. But Catholic people are cool.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio

Take a step back and meditate. God is God. The Holy Spirit is a title of God, God is Spirit and God is one.

So yes the Holy Spirit fire is Judgement, because God is just, ie Judgement.

The same principle works here.

Rom 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 
Pro 25:21  If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 
Pro 25:22  For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee. 

ie Deu 11:26  Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 

It's like Balaam discovered. Num 23:8  How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied? 
Deu 23:5  Nevertheless the LORD thy God would not hearken unto Balaam; but the LORD thy God turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the LORD thy God loved thee. 

When we bless those who curse us , we sow into God the Good seed God has given us, the blessing and opportunity to reward evil with good.
However if the wicked person being blessed is cursed by God, ie under judgement for sin, the blessing is a curse to them, and a blessing to us. So it is with the Holy Spirit of our Everlasting Father Jesus Christ our Saviour God.

This is why the
Num 6:22  And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 
Num 6:23  Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them, 
Num 6:24  The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: 
Num 6:25  The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 
Num 6:26  The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

Is a terrible weapon as well as wonderful gift.

I suppose an analogy might be the modern myth of the Vampire, who in sunlight is consumed. Whereas humans are loving it.
This Sunlight = God, if you are in sin, you are like the Vampire in the sun light, but if saved, the sunlight is wonderful.

Consider the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. Both are close enough to see each other and converse. One is in Paradise, one in torment. Both are in the presence of God.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Jesus yoke is easy, and his burden is light.

Idk, if others can imagine what I was getting at in my first post.I used to believe, but it was mostly more an upstairs kind of emotion.I hoped the Good News could be true, but I lost my way for a long time.In my head I had one idea of what I really felt about these other worldy topics, but it was different then what my subconscious kept trying to show me.I abandoned my faith and started looking everywhere, but the last place I expected it to be.

Reading over my other post, I remember how challenging it was to be able to accept in my heart the story of Christ Resurrection.There came a point though, when I could no longer deny the truth I found.I feel that it's something personal that others can find for themselves.Perhaps that's only something for each of us to decide on our own.It makes sense that way, there always seem to be a wall of sorts, when individuals share these kind of stories.Language has a hard time doing it justice.

It's all good though.This is all just a part of growing up.



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

Revelation 2:2
2 ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;

So, PAUL wrote a letter to the "Ephesians", whom we read later in Paul's letter to Timothy that ALL THOSE IN ASIA (which would include Ephesus) TURNED AWAY from Paul. Then, you have JESUS Himself commending the Ephesian believers for putting to the test, false apostle(s) and "turning away" from them......
What is your explanation now?

Following that line of thought, perhaps they really did feel Paul was a false teacher.Is the scripture calling out Paul or pointing out their refusal to accept his ministry?Maybe they didn't like where he was coming from or see where he was going?An easy error, especially given the name Paul had made for himself, and even today the challenge of trying to understand him.


Revelation 2

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Who was their first love?Could their pride have become a stumbling block?



posted on Oct, 16 2016 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

My Poiint is no body rightly divdes the Bible. Many ignore the verse that instructs us to right division and have been since the rise of the Roman Catholic church. The word is blended and made all one so that the church can replace Israel.

I gave you the division set so here is is again, try going back to the Bible and with a piece of paper with three columns put one of the three divisions from this verse at the top of each column then start in genesis and put the verses that directly in context apply to them. Eventually a pattern will arise and you will be set free, for the truth will set you free, the word of truth that is. And this is just one type of division found in the Bible but this is a big one and remember this two of the groups are not saved and one is.

1Cor 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:


Jew/Israel in one column, the Gentiles in the next, and the church of God in the last. Then go through the scriptures and place the book and verse that applies to one of these groups. from Genesis to Revelation. It will open your eyes immensely if done with the right heart.



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