Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: JohnPrewett

Fortunately for the rest of the world... you believe everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs "works for satan"

So your opinion means nothing... which is the same for everyone with that mentality

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JohnPrewett

Fortunately for the rest of the world... you believe everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs "works for satan"
So your opinion means nothing... which is the same for everyone with that mentality

We all spend some time serving Satan.
Until Jesus converts a person, the person serves Satan.
Paul himself served Satan until Jesus converted Paul.

Luke 5:20
When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
Luke 7:50
He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Salvation by faith in Jesus. Paul proclaimed it and explained it in light of the Law.

originally posted by: JohnPrewett
As Messiah watched the NT canon being determined,
Those who denigrate the apostle Paul must think:
Messiah must have thought something like:

'Oh no .... they are screwing up. They are putting letters of that deceiver Paul into the canon of scripture. Oh, this is terrible ....This will mislead billions of people for centuries. Billions lost-doomed because of the lies they will think are true since they will be called “scripture.” I'd like to keep them from making this mistake, but I don't know how. Sure wish there was something I could do about it.'
*************************

Those denigrating apostle Paul just don't know the Messiah and are working for Satan whether they know it or not.

[As Saul/Paul worked for Satan ignorantly before he was converted and made a great apostles of the Messiah]

Well, it's no different than a God who is "omnipotent and omnipresent, thinking this whole " FUBAR" of a world was a good idea, and set the ball in motion anyway. Yea, something like that.

a reply to: JohnPrewett

No...He showed everyone He came in contact with, that the TRUE GOD was not the one everyone thought.

originally posted by: JohnPrewett

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JohnPrewett

Fortunately for the rest of the world... you believe everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs "works for satan"
So your opinion means nothing... which is the same for everyone with that mentality

We all spend some time serving Satan.
Until Jesus converts a person, the person serves Satan.
Paul himself served Satan until Jesus converted Paul.

Luke 5:20
When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
Luke 7:50
He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Salvation by faith in Jesus. Paul proclaimed it and explained it in light of the Law.

Nah...

One can not serve something that doesn't exist

Satan is just a representation of selfishness... Theres no red dude with a pitch fork whispering in peoples ears trying to "deceive the world"

originally posted by: JohnPrewett

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JohnPrewett

Fortunately for the rest of the world... you believe everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs "works for satan"
So your opinion means nothing... which is the same for everyone with that mentality

We all spend some time serving Satan.
Until Jesus converts a person, the person serves Satan.
Paul himself served Satan until Jesus converted Paul.

Luke 5:20
When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”
Luke 7:50
He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Salvation by faith in Jesus. Paul proclaimed it and explained it in light of the Law.

Satan is YHWH'S lapdog. So, how ( in the NT) does Satan all of a sudden have free reign and free will?

Paul was still serving the enemy...who is Yaldoboath ( aka.. Yahweh).
You have YET to show how Paul supports the Savior. SHOW me how their teachings match. If you circumvent what I just asked...then it's you who are deceived.

originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: whereislogic

If you think I am misleading the entire earth (you must as you highlighted it) you are insane.

Luke 23:3
Now Pilate asked him the question: “Are you the King of the Jews?” In answer he said: “You yourself are saying it.”
Matthew 26:64a
Jesus said to him: “You yourself said it. But I say to you:...

the text you are referring to is talking about Satan, I do not think you are Satan. Perhaps you can consider the other verses that I quoted in relation to that verse from Revelation. In particular the other verse that I bolded and the concept of 'cause and effect'. Also note that I wasn't only quoting from what you refer to as the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures), I did quote a lot from Proverbs though, but also Romans, 1 John, and Revelation.

Our Readers Ask: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Accept the Old Testament?

Jehovah’s Witnesses view the Bible as God’s Word and accept both the Old Testament and the New Testament as integral parts of it. However, they prefer to use the more fitting designations “Hebrew Scriptures” and “Christian Greek Scriptures,” Hebrew and Greek being the principal languages in which the Old and the New Testaments were originally written.

On the other hand, some who profess Christianity [and others on ATS professing to follow the teachings of Jesus] are reluctant to accept the Old Testament. They say that it depicts an angry God who sanctioned wars, murder, and actions hard to harmonize with the all-loving, moral God revealed in the New Testament. Or they reason that since the Old Testament deals chiefly with the Jewish religion, it is not relevant for Christians. However, in view of God’s command found at Deuteronomy 12:32 not to add to or take away from his word, are these valid reasons for rejecting some three fourths of the Bible?

Sometime in 50 C.E. when the Christian apostle Paul visited the citizens of Thessalonica, Greece, “he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead.” (Acts 17:1-3) Some of his listeners became Christians, and Paul later commended them, saying: “When you received God’s word, which you heard from us, you accepted it, not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13) At the time of his visit, of the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, apparently only the Gospel of Matthew had been written. So “the Scriptures” that Paul used to prove “by references” were obviously texts from the Hebrew Scriptures.

In fact, Christian Greek Scripture writers directly referred to texts in the Hebrew Scriptures some 320 times and indirectly another several hundred times. Why? “For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4) This clearly indicates that those who today accept the entire Bible greatly benefit by doing so.

The Christian Greek Scriptures, based on the foundation laid by the Hebrew Scriptures, are a logical extension of God’s Word brought about by the gradual unfolding of God’s purposes. They in no way diminish the value of the Hebrew Scriptures. Herbert H. Farmer, professor of divinity at Cambridge University, argues that the Gospels “cannot be understood apart from what went before in the history of the old covenant people, as set before us in the Old Testament.”

God’s Word needs no revision. Nevertheless, “the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.” (Proverbs 4:18) By adding the Christian Greek Scriptures to the Bible canon, God shed increased light upon the outworking of his purpose without diminishing the value of the Hebrew Scriptures. They are all part of “the saying of Jehovah [that] endures forever.”—1 Peter 1:24, 25.

2 Timothy 3:16,17
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
*: Or “correcting.”
Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.

In a figurative sense, the message emanating from the Bible is sharper than any man-made sword, for it figuratively pierces to the dividing of bones and their marrow. Scriptural truth reaches the innermost part of a person and penetrates his thoughts and emotions, exposing what he really is on the inside. That truth can exert its transforming power and can bring about genuine changes in a person. Of course "can" does not mean it always "will".

Psalms 81:11,12
11 But my people did not listen to my voice;

Israel would not submit to me.

12 So I let them follow their stubborn hearts;

They did what they thought was right. [Lit., “They walked in their counsels.”]

Isaiah 65:2
2 I have spread out my hands all day long to a stubborn people,

To those walking in the way that is not good,

Following their own thoughts;

Acts 7:51

51 “Obstinate men and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, you are always resisting the holy spirit; as your forefathers did, so you do.

Matthew 13:13-15

13 That is why I [Jesus] speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

2 Corinthians 3:14

14 But their minds were dulled. For to this present day, the same veil remains unlifted when the old covenant is read, because it is taken away only by means of Christ.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JohnPrewett

Fortunately for the rest of the world... you believe everyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs "works for satan"

So your opinion means nothing... which is the same for everyone with that mentality

Best post in this thread so far.

Nothing is what the words of a person who thinks disagreeing with the Church is working for Satan are worth.

They believe in a literal Satan and have been driven insane with fear of hell.

The only reason they kiss a** regarding Paul and Christians beliefs in general.

They are under the influence of Satan though he isn't real, he is to them and lacking courage to question mainstream theology they resort to claiming its infallible.

Could anything be more absurd?

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn

So If the Bible if fable, and historical fiction then you cannot even claim to follow Jesus because he was never real in your eyes. The Bible is false about his life historically and everything becomes allegorical and an invention of men.

That's ridiculous.....so if one see's Paul as false and a liar, they somehow can't believe Jesus is the TRUTH???
Do you not even hear yourself, Chester? It's not that Malocchio is pointing out Paul as being false...you just can't STAND anyone to challenge the Bible in and of itself! That's your problem. Do you know why?? Because, you have put all your "eggs in one basket". Point being, that if the Bible has ANY inerrancy in it, you don't know where to stand anymore do you? Your faith should not be in a book, or in "the inerrancy of scripture", but in GOD and JESUS and to trust in the HOLY SPIRIT which you should have IN YOU if you are truly born again, as Jesus said. You should be able to see the lies from the truth. Are you afraid that you can't?

Awesome post!

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

Why emulate Christ at all seeing Jesus so called life in your mind was historical fiction.

Myth or not he is a good role model.

You ask weird questions when you've been exposed, huh?

Jews were told to be born again and when Peter used the term he too was speaking to Jews.

We are the body of Christ not born again.

But then again just throw your bible away it is nothing more than equal to that of Edgar Allen Poe.

Do you have any other way of communicating besides rhetoric?

a reply to: JohnPrewett

The great ministry Jesus gave Paul

They never met. It's all Pauls invention.
Jesus never said you must not be circumcised.

Paul spread Roman Empire Vers 2 - you are in denial. All of modern day Christians who accept the Old Testament and jehovah as the Most High Creator are worshipping the demiurge
You are living in a prison - the gnostics were hounded because they saw the infiltration for what it was.
Remember Jesus never came to start a new religion - he called out the Pharisees for what they were.

Luke 5:20
When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.”

Luke 7:50
He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

To all on this page. I and Paul believe the above. Ya'll currently don't. OK ... so be it ... have a nice day. JP

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
(so did Paul promote peace?...

Yes.

How Can the Peace of the Christ Control in Our Hearts?

“Let the peace of the Christ control in your hearts, for you were, in fact, called to it in one body.”—COLOSSIANS 3:15.

1, 2. In what way does “the peace of the Christ” control in a Christian’s heart?

CONTROL is a distasteful word to many, since it brings to mind images of coercion and manipulation. Paul’s exhortation to fellow Christians in Colossae, “Let the peace of the Christ control in your hearts,” might therefore strike some as being unreasonable. (Colossians 3:15) Are we not free moral agents? Why should we let anything or anyone control in our hearts?

2 Paul was not telling the Colossians to surrender their free will. The Greek term translated “control” at Colossians 3:15 is related to the word for the umpire who awarded the prize in the athletic contests of those days. Contestants had a degree of freedom within the rules of the game, but in the end, the umpire decided who had followed the rules and therefore won the contest. Similarly, we have freedom to make many decisions in life, but as we do so, the peace of the Christ should always be “umpire”—or, as translator Edgar J. Goodspeed renders it, “the ruling principle” in our hearts.

3. What is “the peace of the Christ”?

3 What is “the peace of the Christ”? It is the tranquillity, the inner calm, that we gain when we become Jesus’ disciples and learn that we are loved and approved by Jehovah God and by his Son. When Jesus was about to leave his disciples, he told them: “I give you my peace. . . . Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink for fear.” (John 14:27)
...
That peace should be a controlling influence in our hearts. When we are under severe trial, it can help us to avoid being paralyzed by fear or being excessively troubled. Let us see how this is true when we face injustice, when we are beset by anxiety, and when we feel unworthy.
...
6 Suppose, though, that we personally have been the victim of a perceived injustice. How would a person with the peace of the Christ in his heart react? We may see the need to talk with the individual who we feel has wronged us.
...
It may well be that having done so, we will be content to resolve the matter in our heart and “keep silent.” (Psalm 4:4) In most cases, Paul’s admonition will apply: “Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave you, so do you also.”—Colossians 3:13.
...
10. What are two ways in which a Christian can seek to relieve anxiety?

10 Seeking comfort in God’s Word is one way. King David wrote: “When my disquieting thoughts became many inside of me, your own consolations began to fondle my soul.” (Psalm 94:19) Jehovah’s “consolations” can be found in the Bible. Regularly consulting that inspired Book will help to preserve the peace of the Christ in our hearts. The Bible states: “Throw your burden upon Jehovah himself, and he himself will sustain you. Never will he allow the righteous one to totter.” (Psalm 55:22) In a similar vein, Paul wrote: “Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that excels all thought will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 4:6, 7) Earnest and regular prayer will help us to preserve our peace.

11. (a) How was Jesus a fine example in the matter of prayer? (b) How should we view prayer?

11 Jesus was an excellent example in this regard. On occasion, he prayerfully spoke with his heavenly Father for hours at a time. (Matthew 14:23; Luke 6:12) Prayer helped him to endure the worst of trials. On the night before his death, his distress grew very intense. His reaction? He prayed “more earnestly.” (Luke 22:44) Yes, the perfect Son of God was a man of prayer. How much more, then, should his imperfect followers cultivate the habit of prayer! Jesus taught his disciples “always to pray and not to give up.” (Luke 18:1) Prayer is real and vital communication with the One who knows us better than we know ourselves. (Psalm 103:14) If we are to preserve the peace of the Christ in our hearts, we will “pray incessantly.”—1 Thessalonians 5:17.
...

Galatians 5:22, 23
22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,* kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

*: Or “long-suffering.”

Philippians 4:5-9
5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers* by means of Christ Jesus. [*: Or “your minds; your thoughts.”]

8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste,[Or “pure”] whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 9 The things that you learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these, and the God of peace will be with you.

Now all the opening chapters of Paul's letters:

Romans 1:7
7 to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones:
May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 1:3
3 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor. 1:2
2 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Gal. 1:3
3 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
...
Well, I think you get the picture. I think Paul, Jesus, Jehovah, David, Solomon, Matthew, Luke, John and many other bible writers had a better peace-promotion plan and methodology than certain other people who like to use that word (most of my earlier quotations, especially from Proverbs also relate to this). There's another subject quite noteworthy about the introduction greetings of these letters:

2 Corinthians 10:4-5

"...for the weapons of our warfare are not merely human, but they have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God, AND WE TAKE EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE TO OBEY CHRIST. WE ARE READY TO PUNISH EVERY DISOBEDIENCE WHEN YOUR OBEDIENCE IS COMPLETE.

Emphasis mine.

Paul is waging a war against free thought with weapons of words. He wishes to capture the minds of the weak and enslave them to his false gospel.

When he takes thoughts captive it's to force obedience ''to Christ."

He can't wait to punish the disobedient.

He claims his words are divine, lacks proof or even evidence.

a reply to: whereislogic

Paul is a false prophet. It's in the Bible.

Why you falling for it?

Jesus warned about Paul in Matthew 24:23, Revelation to the Ephesians and also by comparing him to Balaam (if you know who that is) condemning the teachings of Paul re: eating idol meat.

The Apostles also accuse Paul of false teachings and make him purify himself.

He was guilty and submitted. Once he left he was no longer a member of the Way and changed course.

He knew he would have no success with his false gospel among the Jews and admits:

"All those in Asia have rejected me."

Well the only Churches at that time were in Asia. The 7 Churches of Revelation are in Asia.

You have to reject Jesus and the Apostles to follow Paul or be completely clueless to the facts and logic.

????

a reply to: Malocchio

you make a lot of claims but with no proof.

You just say the same things over and over and over with no proof.

a reply to: Malocchio

why are you using a bible that is fiction.

my remark about us not being born again is that it was never required for the gentiles to be born again. the nation of Israel was told they must be born again because they are not the children of God by being born into the nation of Israel as they believed. No Gentile was ever commanded to be born again. The whole ministry of John 3 is to ISRAEL failure to rightly divide will cause you to fall for anything and believe nothing.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you can't claim the Bible is historical fiction and then claim it is historically true at the same time. It can only be one or the other.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Sorry three of the gospel were written between 43-52AD. The book of Acts spans a historical period from 33 to 68AD. Paul's books were written from 48-68AD

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

If you believe the bible is historical fiction than you Jesus is fictional too