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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:13 AM
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I just finished the unexpectedly good movie Hercules starring Dwayne Johnson.


His friend says at the end of the movie:


"There is the legend of Hercules, but I prefer the truth. Was he really the son of Zeus?"

"I don't think it matters."

Likewise, was Jesus real or the Son of God?

Well there is no Jewish prophecy that predicts that God will send his "only begotten Son" (or that he has one). The Sons of God in the OT are considered angelic and not gods. No Jew then or now was expecting a magical Messiah to die for their sins, we reap what we sow in life. The Messiah was actually a twofold development that with the Aaronic Priestly Messiah and the Davidic Kingly warrior Messiah. The end result was an independent legitimate Israelite Kingdom and the downfall of the Kittim in Judea.

We know that the Romans and Judeans had been at war for like a hundred years before the expulsion of the Jews from Jerusalem and subsequent dispersion. Rome was victorious but managing the Empire would be different than creating it and the only historian of this period that speaks of Judeans war with Rome is Josephus, a traitor and collaborator who styled himself a diplomat but really was just a defeated and captured Jew writing what he was told to.

He never mentions a Saul the Pharisee who became a world renowned missionary for Christ. He mentioned John the Baptizer and James the Just as well as some really insignificant people.


But not Paul...?

Isn't that odd that such a famous Jew and fellow traitor gets no mention whatsoever?


No, it makes perfect sense. Paul was a nobody who was made into somebody by one man... Marcion of Sinope the wealthy heretic who rejected several epistles attributed to Paul because he knew they were fake. They had to be, he wrote the epistles of Paul himself and Paul never existed.

The purpose of the book of Acts was to write Paul into a story he wasn't a part of as a non existent person or angry loser and nobody with a pen.

Paul is such a disgusting person. I have never heard of people en masse rejecting Jesus or James or Peter.

But Paul is in the garbage can of history nowadays with only the fundamental Christian lacking the clarity and freedom of thought to realize this.




posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:19 AM
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At every form of intellectual endeavor, [such as: art, literature, banking/finance, technology, science, media, entertainment, academics]
Jews/Hebrews are either best in the world, or contenders for best in the world.

Concerning God, we all know Jews/Hebrews wrote the Bible.

So, it is understandable that Jews presume they must understand God better than non-Jews.

However, Hebrew scripture refutes that presumption.

Hebrew scripture reveals the Hebrews routinely rejected the leadership of God.
Hebrew scripture reveals those with the most pronounced "Hebrew mindset"
were the MOST RESISTANT to the leadership of God
Beginning with the brothers selling Joseph into slavery.
Joe the next youngest and most beloved of his father with the dreams of grandeur.
The brothers lied and said he was dead ... and were sure surprised when he became their savior and overlord !
Then Moses was initially rejected ... and had to flee Egypt. and Even after Moses was sent back empowered ... the Hebrews wanted to stone him a few times ..... the gold calf worshiping Hebrews angered God so much that none of them got into the promised land ...[except the two good spies]

The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.
they have rejected Me from being king over them.
they have rejected Me from being king over them.
they have rejected Me from being king over them. 1 Samuel 8:7

Then for centuries they routinely rejected God's word .. God's prophets ..
15 The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16 but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 2 Chronicles 36

Alas, sinful nation, People weighed down with iniquity,
Offspring of evildoers, Sons who act corruptly!
They have abandoned the Lord, They have despised the Holy One of Israel, They have turned away from Him. Isaiah 1

Then those most expert in the Law ... men professing their fidelity to the Torah rejected Messiah and demanded His crucifixion

SO GET OFF THE HEBREW HIGH HORSE

If anything, in regard to getting to know God,
a "Hebrew mindset" is a retardant.

An obstacle/hurdle to be overcome.
Stop telling the bs that I need a "Hebrew mindset"
or know Hebrew language to understand God.
Or need to call Messiah by some Hebrew name or some mongrel word meant to sound Hebrewish but spelled with English letters.

I don't. Nobody does.

We all need a rational mind led by the Holy Spirit to understand God



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio



I hope you are going to answer my question now.



the Bible speaks for itself. the less words of men and all Bible is better than nothing but men's opinions and non-biblical writings and quotes.

Building an ark is a command given Noah. So obviously it is not for today.

The Law of Moses is given to all Israel in the land of Israel. so obviously it is not for Gentiles today


It was never for non Jews until Christianity adopted the OT. That is not what I asked though. You're dodging the simplest question.



especially because of the ordinances delivered by Paul and Barnabas to the churches saved under the gospel to the uncircumcised


What? You think that non Jews have a separate Gospel? They don't.

All Christians have the SAME Gospel. You read the Bible like it was written yesterday. And you miss key points.

Acts specifically states that God appointed Peter to preach to the ''goyim" and doesn't support Paul's own statement that it was agreed he had exclusive goyim privileges.

There were more goyim than Jews and ALL the Apostles preached to BOTH Jew and Goy. Thomas preached in India and Andrew and Peter traveled outside of Judea as did Philip, Bartholomew and pretty much every Apostle took up the call to "Make disciples of all nations." LONG Before Paul was even a pretend Nazarene.



which is the the gospel of the grace of God. So again it is obvious that those scriptures are not for today.

The command to Israel to sacrifice at certain times of the year, certain types of animals. Which obviously cannot be done by even Jews today because there is not temple.

The command to eat of all creatures was given Noah and is applicable to all today as is the command to eat of herbs. Eating would be a choice of the individual. As Paul said just don't offend any with your food or days you worship or call for a holy day.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was presented by Christ before his crucifixion. the crucifixion of Christ was for told as was his resurrection. Jesus taught that all who accept the gospel of the kingdom should do all that the law of Moses commanded and those he healed were told to go and present the sacrifice according to the law of Moses.

Unfortunately, once again there is no temple in Jerusalem for any follower f the gospel of the kingdom to go to to do the law of Moses, plus there are two vital requirements one must repent of all ones sins and wickedness (something no man can really do because oft he sin of unaware or unknown, of which God provided a sacrifice for but there is no temple to sacrifice as required. Even Jesus Sacrificed on the Passover and held the the feast of the unleavened bread with his disciples. That is the problem for all who try to hold to and believe the feast of Passover it cannot be held but in Jerusalem and there must be a temple and an altar and a sacrifice.

And the other requirement under the kingdom Gospel is one must be baptized. Unlike the baptism that Paul taught as did only a few times, it is in water and is ones proof of his faith in Christ. Baptism under the kingdom gospel is mandatory.

Baptism under the gospel of the grace of God is the H9ly Ghost entering and placing one in Christ giving one new life. Water baptism is not required. and in Romans 6 you will not find water with in 20 verses either direction of the direct context it is a spiritual baptism.

If one tries to get saved by following the Everlasting Gospel of Rev 14 one will not receive salvation at all and if they died tomorrow believing the Gospel that has not even been preached yet, for that gospel is unfulfilled prophecy. Anyone placing their trust in the everlasting gospel will die in their sins and go to judgement and later the lake of fire.

ALL men are saved today by the gospel of the grace of God, which Jesus gave to Paul as a testimony to the world. If a midget or one born with a withered hand gets saved under the gospel of the grace of God he will receive a new and whole and complete body which will be holy and without blemish at the gathering unto Jesus in the clouds ever more to be with him.

That is right division of the word of truth. And there is much more as we go through the scriptures and find many verses that are not for today and plenty that are for today.

You know all the scriptures I have alluded to but many you deny as true, and without error.



Yeah...the issue is your typing many words to answer a question but aren't actually answering anything.

You haven't explained what "dividing the word of truth" means or:

Who are the divisions within Christianity?

What division gets what section of the word of truth?


What you just did didn't address any of my questions. All you did was repeat what the Bible says about other unrelated issues that you don't seem to comprehend.

I am really just interested in knowing if you think that Jewish Christians have a different set of rules than goyim Christians because that seems to be the case.

You also seem like you're avoiding that segment of my question because you don't want to say yes, they do. But from analysis it seems to be your beliefs.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

Go back and read I said God created Christianity and Jesus Christ called Paul and gave him the gospel of the grace of God.



Are you only positive about that, since Paul's letters are included in Canon?



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: JohnPrewett

I don't think Hebrew traditions are retardants at all.

Jews have an ancient religion that has to be reinterpreted to get past disturbing imagery but no religion is more retardant to spiritual growth than Paulianity called Christianity.

Look at the behavior of the Pauline Christians in just this thread.

Count the number of insults and compare it to the loyal to Jesus anti-Pauline members remarks and you will see who the truly spiritually stunted are.

The Pauline Christians are and they are just behaving like their false prophet does, it's fascinating actually.

Jews are cool. They allow their faith to evolve, Protestants and to a lesser extent Catholics don't.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: JohnPrewett
To people with no Torah knowledge, and no love for Jews ....
Amid people who believe every conception of “God” one can imagine,

a vagabond Jew named Paul of Tarsus proclaimed salvation in another Jew who had been rejected by Jewish leaders and crucified by a Roman governor.
Salvation apart from Law-keeping.

That wandering Jewish tentmaker preacher [whose last address was a prison in Rome] was so influential, that 2000 years later many of his critics claim Paul is the real creator of "christianity." He [inspired by Jesus] changed the world.

Why did many Gentiles believe him ?

Because he was confirmed with power. POWER. Paul changed the world. Paul is a MADE MAN.

Compared to Paul, his critics are ankle biting Chihuahuas.


Heh. That was genuinely hilarious.

And of course no Pauline comment would be complete without the standard ''dare you disagree with my opinion you scoundrel" insult.

At the same time entirely hypocritical as you wouldn't be saying what you are if you yourself had proper Torah knowledge.

You don't seem to realize even that the Torah is only the first 5 books of the Tanakh while you throw out the word as if it was equivalent to the Tanakh.

I don't think I have anything to worry about from the opinions of you, thanks for the chuckle though!
edit on 9-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: ChesterJohn


You have a tendency towards repetition of phrases.

"Rightly divide the word of truth" and "preserved word of God" being common themes in a lot of your comments.

I have addressed your misinterpretation that led to you errantly believing that ''divide" is the absolute best translation and something to build a dogma around, a dogma of division, based on the LEAST preferred and least common translation of 2 Timothy that is more accurately ''interpret."

Now I will address your errant belief that God is a protector of literature.

God doesn't interfere in the murders of innocent people which happen every day, doesn't prevent children from fatal illnesses and allows man FREE WILL to commit sin.


He obviously doesn't value a book more than human life. A book doesn't breath or have children, parents. A book doesn't come from the finger of God, people are his priority and most intelligent biological creation.

Yet he allows unimaginable pain to be inflicted on millions of innocent people.


"Either God protects his word or he doesn't."

Was what you said.

You have also said that only one Bible is the ''preserved word."

The problem with that theory is that dozens of versions and many more accurate than the KJV exist and the KJV didn't exist until around 1500 or so and that means that for 1500 years it didn't exist while Christianity DID exist.

So obviously the KJV isn't the original Bible and versions in Greek and Latin, Syriac and Aramaic preceded it making it the least likely to be accurate.

It was also produced in the interest of the Crown, to make sure the word King is used instead of Caesar as often as possible and without the informative footnotes of the Geneva Bible.

God may or may not have had a hand in preserving the Bible but it was man who wrote, re-wrote and destroyed the history of the ancient world to erase anything that would expose the Romans scheme of turning the Spiritual Messiah of Israel into the God of the Empire.

God doesn't have to preserve it because man did that and it isn't God's Word, it's the combined Law, Prophets and writings of the Jews united to Pagan mythology.


I think one could say that God preserved the Nag Hammadi scriptures and the Dead Sea Scrolls, as they have forever changed Christianity in a time people want the truth about Christianity's origins more than ever despite the efforts of the Catholic Church to prevent the DSS from being released in the public arena, especially the Eisenmen translated, previously unreleased material that proves the existence of the Ebionites in the first century and their Messianic expectations.

If you are familiar with the Scrolls it's obvious that whoever they belonged to were the originators of what we know today as Christianity. 12 leaders, 3 pillar leaders, tongues of fire, all themes shared by the NT and DSS and by far not the only.


God shows the Truth to those who can accept it, handle it and spread it to others who want it and are Spiritually mature.

Everyone else is stuck with Paul and his spiritually inhibiting doctrine of us vs. them, curse those who don't agree, doctrine of ''believe me and go to heaven, don't believe burn in hell."

If you can't see the fallacy in spiritual threats you can't see what's above you and are only seeing what is in front of you.


Islam and Judaism don't have to teach people that they will go to hell if they aren't Muslims or Jews and have a live and let live policy in their book(s). They may believe differently but I know of know teaching in Judaism that says ''all non Jews go to hell" although the Talmud has some goyim unfriendly teachings it doesn't go so far as to commit them to eternal torment.

In Islam it is not even an issue as who has the right to say who God will pardon or punish?

Only Christianity approaches people on the street and threatens them with hellfire if they don't ''get saved" (whatever saved is).

Yet salvation is not the focus of Jesus teachings but how to live on earth as though it were Heaven because you are in the Kingdom of God NOW and salvation is self serving not a sacrifice.

Jesus didn't say ''My death is the new atonement for sacrifice" that comes from the false apostle Paul. Jesus was killed but not for your benefit and to believe that his death is your salvation gets your hands bloody.

Because that means you are in a human sacrifice or deicidal atonement believing religion and far from the narrow path of the Way.

Christianity teaches if you don't accept Jesus as God and Saviour who died for your sins you will go to hell.


That's causing fear in the mind in order to create conformity to the doctrines of men.


God is in no book but his messengers the Prophets (not Paul) all teach essentially the same thing. There is one God with who all things descended. No MAN whether prophet or Messiah is God.

Your actions matter, faith alone is not going to cut it, even demons believe in God but they are still evil and what is more appealing to the evil mind than:


"Believe what I say and you will go to heaven. If you accept our doctrine you have eternal salvation and all you have to do is say Jesus is God and you're in!"

If it sounds to good to be true...or to stupid to be the Word of God:


It's probably Paul.


That's the best summary you've done so far....



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Malocchio






Paul is such a disgusting person. I have never heard of people en masse rejecting Jesus or James or Peter.
But Paul is in the garbage can of history nowadays with only the fundamental Christian lacking the clarity and freedom of thought to realize this.


THIS....is SO dead on.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

TY!



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Either God has kept his word to preserve his words to every generation or he has not.

That is the choice you all have. If you say that the Bible is corrupt and no version is accurate then you don't believe God kept his word as he promises in Psalm 12:6, 7. If that is what you believe then don't waste your time following JHVH or Jesus Christ because he is not powerful enough to keep his own promises.


I hope you don't mind if I point out the errors in this comment, because I am going to and they're many.



But if you are like me, and there be few who are,
thank the Most High.

then you know where God's preserved word is and you believe every word of it.

Now I divide it because the command to Noah to build an ark is obviously not for me today.


That's not dividing anything. All it is is chronological assessment of the material in the OT.

No command in the Bible is for'' YOU today." The Bible has a New Testament for Christianity but doesn't revoke the commandments of the Old it simplifies them for the Christian who naturally lacked knowledge of the Tanakh so they may have a place at the table of God.

So you explain your ''divide the word" theory by pointing out that you are not Noah? I'm sorry but that's not logical.

You clearly have something else in mind regarding the meaning of"divide the word..." that is centered on the New Testament and Paul vs the Apostles and I don't think you even know it.

But you pointed a finger at me for not dividing the word of truth rightly. What you meant was if I am not Jewish I have to follow the teachings of Paul and that they are separated by race, Jew vs. goyim.

I have pointed out your error and you are going in circles trying to prove you have a clear grasp on the meaning of ''dividing the word" but saying that you don't understand God's command to Noah to apply to you doesn't match your previous interpretation of that passage that was NT based.



Nor are the Laws given Israel for existence in the land of Israel. The Gospel of the Kingdom is based on the kingdom Promise to Israel that one would reign from the loins of David for all eternity, and that gospel required all who believed it to keep all the law of Moses. But Religious and civil leadership of Israel rejected their messiah and so God rejected them after they stoned Stephen. The gospel of the kingdom is temporarily postponed until Israel's chastisement is completed in the great Tribulation.

Until that time, Paul was called as one out of do time, and he was given the Gospel of the grace of God from Jesus Christ himself, hence the difference between the two Gospels one for Israel and those who would live with them in the kingdom, and one for all men both Jew and Gentile all based on the work of the Cross of Christ that is for today until the great Tribulation, which starts when the Body of Christ is gathered unto Jesus in the clouds ever more to be with him.

Once that gathering takes place then the kingdom gospel will go back into effect and the gospel of the grace of God will no longer be available to man kind again. Towards the end of the great tribulation another Gospel is presented, by this time almost everyone has been killed off and those that remain must prepare themselves to meet God, it is preached by an angel standing in the sun and it required those who here it to give God glory for his judgment is at hand.

This division is found throughout the NT and has many cross references to the OT prophets.

God created Christianity of today and it was Paul and Barnabas who first called them Christians in Antioch Caesarea. Where Paul taught them three years before going to Jerusalem to refute the Judaizes who wanted to put the Gentiles under the law of Moses after they heard the Gospel of the grace of God. The converts of Paul not the converts of the kingdom Gospel under peter and the 11 plus Mathias and the 500 others who were apostles before Paul.

blessings to those who believe and curses to those who do not believe that God has perfectly preserved ALL his words in the 66 books we have of the Old and New Testament.

I now leave this to those who hate Paul and the Lord Jesus who called him to testify of the gospel of the grace of God.


I don't even have the urge to pick apart your comments and highlighting that the Kingdom of God is not just for Israel.

And the goyim gospel of the Kingdom of grace was spoken of by a false prophet.

But you just showed without realizing it that you do separate Jew from goy even if the Jew is Christian by claiming that the ''gospel of grace" is for goy and the ''gospel of the Kingdom" is for Jews.

I don't think you realize that this is racism.

What's worse it calls God a racist. This type of thinking is dangerous because it DIVIDES people using the word God as authority and basically gives liscence to hate. I know of no Church that teaches this race based doctrine of error.

Jesus mission was special to Jews, but that's because Jesus was a Jew and their brethren.

But neither Jesus or Paul teaches that there are different Gospels for different nations. The distinction doesn't exist within Christianity as today's Messianic Jews follow the Gospels and the epistles and don't claim that theirs is the Kingdom of God while goy must follow grace.

You are just so insanely incorrect in your interpretation of that one passage and the entire Bible and I see why you spend more time insulting people than having pleasant discussions.

Because you feel its bad to be wrong, know you are, but rather than learn right you defend your error as if it was true.

Being wrong opens up the mind to right and is how you learn. Unless you refuse to admit it out of pride.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: MalocchioThere are few because the standard teaching today does not allow for right division.

No one Jew or Gentile under the gospel of the Grace of God was under the tanak.

you take up with God about his choosing one nation over the rest. But as for today all men that is nationality, sexuality and race are all saved the same way through faith on Christ.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: MalocchioThere are few because the standard teaching today does not allow for right division.


That's because ''right division" doesn't apply to the teachings of Christ.

Right UNITY is the message you should be preaching and not division. In the context of our discussion there is only WRONG division. That's the whole point of Jesus teachings that we are all equal under God.

God doesn't want division (I would think). He wants everyone to be equal and what you are trying to pass off as God's teachings are not even Paul's teachings.

He didn't use the word divide. the KJV got the translation wrong. Compare online yourself, only the KJV and one other that I could find translate it ''division."

Further, it wasn't even Paul who wrote Timothy 1 & 2. They have been acknowledged as pseudepigraphal since at least Eusebius who had nothing to gain by acknowledging that Hebrews and other epistles were forgeries but he did. Why would he lie in that direction?

He wouldn't. He is not the most reliable historian by any means but the scholarly consensus within Christianity is that only the Marcion found epistles are genuine.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that your pastor didn't tell you but I assure you if he has historical knowledge he knows this.

Point is your beloved (false) apostle/false prophet didn't write it so I would not be selecting obscure passages of Pseudepigrapha to build a theoretical doctrine on.

You have more to gain by just listening to Jesus and considering everyone who is different equal and everyone who is the same equal.

Everyone is equal. The teachings of the Bible aren't just for Jews, Christians and Muslims to learn ''Abrahamic" history from and likewise atheists and Bhuddists are equally likely to benefit from them. Some of the Bible is borrowed mythology told as though it were Hebrew and some is original Hebrew mythology. Some (little) is actually historical but any person who can read can apply the teachings and writings of the Bible to their life and benefit somehow.

God's Truth is Universal and can't be divided. God's Word is Jesus theologically metaphorically and the Bible is the also called the Word of God.

Neither were designed for dividing its readers. Sure, Levites have a different role than Benjaminites and Judahites are the stars of scripture but whatever is spoken of by God to Moses was meant for all and any difference between Levite and Judahite is in the past anyway, I get that.

But like it or not you have Catholic roots. Catholic means Universal as in for everyone. It started small and only because of Rome does it exist today. Any remaining Jewish Nazarenes converted to Islam or stayed Jewish and for a long time Jewish Christians were rare. Still are because of the anti Semitic writings of Paul and Church history.

If anyone is hated by Jews it's Paul and not Christ.



No one Jew or Gentile under the gospel of the Grace of God was under the tanak.


Tanakh is how it's spelled, capital T.

Ok, so you think that the original Jerusalem Nazarenes and Ebionites considered the Tanakh invalid (they weren't under it)?

That's historically inaccurate. Eusebius himself writes that the followers of the Nazarene in Jerusalem going back to the time of Christ stayed Jews and repudiated Paul as an apostate former convert and used Matthew in Aramaic and the Gospel of the Hebrews which Clement of Alexandria quotes from and is actually the Gospel of Thomas. They kept observing Jewish customs until they were persecuted out of existence.

Jesus said that the Tanakh would endure until Heaven and earth pass away. That sounds like an endorsement to keep the traditions within and not a command to get out from ''under" their cultural Law.

So you are wrong and following the Romans version of history not reminding yourself that Rome thought little of Judaism and less of the Jews themselves.

Even IF they followed Jesus and were the legitimate heirs and descendants of Jesus and the Apostles to Rome they were heretics and enemies because they had a narrow world view and the power to enforce edict and eliminate rivals with efficiency and militarily if need be.

So you are following the actual heresy as Orthodox because Rome was the world power and not because of the Nazarenes of the early common era who didn't think of Christ as God, just Messiah and human.

Killing the ''heretics" doesn't make you right it makes you evil and to follow the tradition that did that evil is not wise.

Besides, who is ''under the Torah and complaining?" Not the Jews, they are doing well with it and have written volumes explaining it allegorically and laughing at Christians who take it at face value because you will never know the meaning of the stories, just the stories themselves.

The same is true about Rome's New Testament that was written in Greek by Hellenistic Jews and Romans. It's allegorical content was never meant to be taken literally until the idea of Canon came and the post Nicene era.



you take up with God about his choosing one nation over the rest. But as for today all men that is nationality, sexuality and race are all saved the same way through faith on Christ.



Oh, I shant have to do that because God never chose any nation over the rest.

I am sorry to tell you but that is propaganda. The 12 tribes never existed and the OT is allegory and myth borrowed from all the cultures the Jews came in contact with.

God is not Yahweh, Yahweh is not the Most High God even in the Bible. He is one of the 70 Sons who inherited Israel from El Elyon.

You will see ''sons of Israel" because you use the KJ. But the oldest texts in existence and they are far older than the Masoretic texts that the KJV is translated from say ''Sons of God."

Your Bible says Israel where it should say God because Israel put it there to hide the truth about Deuteronomy 32 and Yahweh being a Son of El. Yes, the Jews used to be polytheistic.

But I don't see you approaching that scholary being a tritheist, I understand.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 02:53 PM
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I have to say, after thinking.


I can not think of a worse example of misinterpreting scripture, Pauline or from Christ himself, than thinking that it was taught TWO Gospels depending on your race were applicable between Jew and Goy. It just isn't true.

Not only had Greeks been converting to Judaism for a long time before Christ but Christ especially was willing to part with tradition at times and defy the eyes of the Priesthood by teaching in public and I don't think anyone believes that only Jews listened to Jesus preaching or that everything he taught is in the New Testament he broke with tradition to save tradition as Rome was heavily persecuting the Jews and constant revolts were being quelled and making things worse.

Despite this he travelled with Greeks and Jews and lived in Egypt for a time probably even during his "missing years"( but that's a guess based off the Talmud tradition).

He was no militant Zealot or nationalistic xenophobe. He was more like a Bhudda or a Zoroaster, a teacher of Righteousness, and no righteous man divides his teachings based on race.

Intelligence is an altogether different story, but not race. It's foolishness.

I have been told to blame God for choosing one nation as if it was written in every holy book on earth that the Jews were chosen.

Obviously in their religion they are, but that's it, just religion.

I don't think God is at all religious or cares what books you read or what you think about him. He is good.

He would want us to question why he doesn't come around. It's probably because nobody is worthy but it could just be some.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

right division applies to the word of truth which is the Preserved word of God that we hold in our hands that has all the words of God in it.

Oh My there is 12 tribes of literal Jacob. You are being fed or have been feeding on a lie. Israel is a nation of twelve tribes. Even the new Jerusalem holds their names.

There are few allegories in the Bible most of them are explained or labeled as such but most of the OT is historical narrative and prophecy.

Other wise your whole premise you made a few pages back, if I am not mistaken, about the 12 disciple representing the 12 tribes is all a farce. And it was an error anyway because Simon one of the original 12 disciples and later an apostle was a Canaanite.

Rome does not want right division either. Like I said the standard teaching today is not right division but wrongly joining. as well as replacement theology, and blending the three main gospels found in the in the NT I have shown throughout this thread.

the Jews were polytheistic from the time the LORD God Almighty brought them out of Egypt by his mighty arm. But soon they will repent and turn and all Israel will be saved.

the oldest or the best manuscripts don't matter to God when he chooses to preserve his word he will do it and has done it. whether you believe it or not. That is why you can find error in the AV because it is his preserved word not mans.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

right division applies to the word of truth which is the Preserved word of God that we hold in our hands that has all the words of God in it.


I literally just told you that you repeat the same phases rhetorically and that you can't explain the meaning. Several times I've asked and the closest you came was dividing the Gospels into two Kingdoms.

Grace OR Kingdom of God.

You think this, and I know for a fact that divide is not the proper translation and it should read interpret in the section of Timothy 2 were you get that obscure pseudepigraphal quote from.

And that no division exists.


Obviously you are stuck in your ways, prefer that which makes no sense to that which does and are hyper proud of it to the point you believe that you are speaking for God.

What you say and the Bible says/means are light years apart imho.

I am finished with you.





Oh My there is 12 tribes of literal Jacob. You are being fed or have been feeding on a lie. Israel is a nation of twelve tribes. Even the new Jerusalem holds their names.

There are few allegories in the Bible most of them are explained or labeled as such but most of the OT is historical narrative and prophecy.

Other wise your whole premise you made a few pages back, if I am not mistaken, about the 12 disciple representing the 12 tribes is all a farce. And it was an error anyway because Simon one of the original 12 disciples and later an apostle was a Canaanite.

Rome does not want right division either. Like I said the standard teaching today is not right division but wrongly joining. as well as replacement theology, and blending the three main gospels found in the in the NT I have shown throughout this thread.

the Jews were polytheistic from the time the LORD God Almighty brought them out of Egypt by his mighty arm. But soon they will repent and turn and all Israel will be saved.

the oldest or the best manuscripts don't matter to God when he chooses to preserve his word he will do it and has done it. whether you believe it or not. That is why you can find error in the AV because it is his preserved word not mans.




posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 03:36 PM
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The absolute greatest scam that has ever been perpetrated on the free man was to tell him that he was free from the Law (a law most were never subject to) of the old Covenant of a God they never worshipped in the first place in exchange for a "New Covenant" that preached obedience to the laws of human tyrants and slave masters and subservience of women.

Your rewards will be in the next life, suffering is good and martyrdom better.


I think the fact that free men voluntarily submit to the rules of Paul and their Church is sad.

There is no liberation in Christianity, from the Law or otherwise. If God does make Laws I don't think he would do it to change his mind later and encourage obedience to government.

What a beautiful scam!!!
edit on 9-10-2016 by Malocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

man you still haven't got it do you.

We are all under laws of Governments, we are under God's universal law that is written in our hearts. Even in the OT before Israel was called gentile heathens knew that adultery and murder of another human was wrong.

However the Law of Moses was given to ALL ISRAEL. God even says so in Malachi 4:4.

The greatest lie perpetrated is that men in this age must live by the law of Moses after faith on Christ.

And in God's preserved word, preserved as he wanted it and it is called a New Testament not a new covenant, that is a roman Catholic translation from the Septuagint and every Bible version created since 1830 has used that and Vaticanus for their translation see chart below. However n the last day he will make a new covenant with ISRAEL. But that is well after the body of Christ made of both Jew and Gentile have been gathered unto Jesus in the clouds ever more to be with hi. Just like it says in 1 Thess 4.

It is the biggest scam ever perpetrated by the Roman Catholic church upon unsuspecting Christians of all classifications. And you and your belief has more in common with them than I and other right dividers. They too want to get rid of and ignore Paul's writings.



edit on 9-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Malocchio

man you still haven't got it do you.


On the contrary, I've always had It. It was, is and will be and I have got it.



We are all under laws of Governments, we are under God's universal law that is written in our hearts. Even in the OT before Israel was called gentile heathens knew that adultery and murder of another human was wrong.

However the Law of Moses was given to ALL ISRAEL. God even says so in Malachi 4:4.

The greatest lie perpetrated is that men in this age must live by the law of Moses after faith on Christ.

And in God's preserved word, preserved as he wanted it and it is called a New Testament not a new covenant, that is a roman Catholic translation from the Septuagint and every Bible version created since 1830 has used that and Vaticanus for their translation see chart below. However n the last day he will make a new covenant with ISRAEL. But that is well after the body of Christ made of both Jew and Gentile have been gathered unto Jesus in the clouds ever more to be with hi. Just like it says in 1 Thess 4.

It is the biggest scam ever perpetrated by the Roman Catholic church upon unsuspecting Christians of all classifications. And you and your belief has more in common with them than I and other right dividers. They too want to get rid of and ignore Paul's writings.




I am sorry but I could not read through that mixture of ramble and rhetoric.

I kid, a little bit. I have to admit it's been a blast but you've said the same thing 15 messages in a row with slight variations only and I am only responding to be absolutely honest, I think your theological musings are of the most hilarious.

Nothing I can honestly say anyone will ever buy if you tried to sell it. The Division Gospel, that's a unique one.

I must give you that much.



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: Malocchio

First, your dilemma is one and the same you don't believe the LORD God Almighty is powerful enough to preserve his words in a book you can hold in your hand.

Secondly you trust scholars and teachers above his word because of the first point non belief he has preserved all his words in a book you can hold in your hand.

I can tell you have not even looked at the three gospels presented and studied their context and even considered they are even different. All you have to do is enter into your bible program, The gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of the grace of God and the Everlasting gospel. Make three columns on a piece of paper and list the requirements for each one. You will need to re-read all of the NT to do so. You will find that the the preserved word of God will divide Matthew -Acts 9; Hebrews -Rev 14 under the kingdom Gospel, Acts 9 - Philemon under the gospel of the grace of God, also known as the gospel of God, the gospel of Christ; and the Rev 14-20 the everlasting Gospel.

Good luck but You will never change me and I will never change you. But I bet if your were honest with God and asked him with a true heart he would show you the truth.

I did it with the anti-Paul stuff that started with lastdays, gnosisisfaith, and his 60 or so aliases and I bet you are him as well. the thing is I went through all the scriptures and reread the whole preserved Bible since December 2015 and not once did God tell me or show me Paul was a liar, heretic, Pharisaical plant, Roman stooge to confuse the masses. As a matter of fact he showed me more scriptures that prove Paul true. and he strengthened my belief in him as the person of Jesus Christ.

All these you deny and have and will until in truth you come humbly to him and repent.




edit on 9-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2016 @ 07:13 PM
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My only remaining interest in this thread is to reflect on my previous statement that Jews can accept and approve of others faiths and Islam has the same live and let live policy in its Qur'an.

I leave you with a link to a video called 3 Rabbis say Islam is a true religion. The Rabbis discuss many things about Islam and one says that it's possible to say it legitimately goes back to Ishmael.

3 Rabbis endorse Islam

It's not long but I think I don't exagerate saying that this statement of Islam as a true and monotheistic faith would be hard to find from a Pastor. He would be fired yesterday.



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