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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: Seede

"Now lets read John again. John says that Jesus is the Creator."


That's one way of seeing it. I see Jesus as the WORD or TRUE TORAH of GOD (not YHWH), made flesh. I really don't even want to use the word "Torah" anymore, but my point is...NO ONE had ever known the true God. NO ONE.
Even Jesus Himself said this.
Jesus was indwelt by the WORD of God. When God speaks...He creates. It's His Word that holds the very fabric of everything together.
So, whenever Jesus was speaking or performing miracles, He always gave the credit to His Father. He would say, "if you've seen ME, you've seen the Father".
I don't think Jesus meant "I am God", but that GOD'S WORD was inside Him...fully.
Jesus also said His Kingdom was not of this world. Once again, if Jesus was YHWH, then why the heck did YHWH spend so much time making a people for HIMSELF?
I don't know if you are following me (probably not, lol)...but, setting all Christian doctrine aside, and just looking at Jesus and His Father, like I've said before....the world did not KNOW God...at all. THAT'S why when Jesus taught, or spoke, people were amazed at Him. It was the MOST HIGH doing the talking...the "WORD".
Even John writes this chp. 1 vs 10.
So, if John is saying that NO ONE knew God, then that even supports more that the YHWH character wasn't the true God.
That's why Jesus appeals to so many, even if they can't stand Christianity or most Christians...or think the OT YHWH is evil.
THE GOD, showed up, through His Son.



edit on 3-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
Checking the timing was a good way to evaluate his claims. There was no intent to make anyone feel (or even look) stupid.

Oh, btw, is it honest and accurate to say that regarding your view of Jehovah: you, Seede, Marcion, Dorsey, and Malocchio (and many others here) are all on the same page? Since that's more or less what you have been describing or arguing for. You even used the word "loathe" and "evil" earlier to describe your feelings and views of Jehovah.


Though, I don't think Seede would agree with you including him in that group.

I think I misunderstood this line from Seede:

I believe you have admitted that the OT God of Moses with all of the unneeded sacrifice is a rotten cruel God and that the God of Jesus is a kind and loving compassionate God.

Re-reading the rest of his comment it seems to me now that he meant something like "argued" instead of "admitted". Cause "admitted" sounds like Seede agrees with that view. Admitted, as in, admitting to something that is true or a reality/fact. That's why I got confused.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

from what I can tell you are lost and confused and being misled. Nothing more I can do to lead you aright in God being powerful enough to give you a preserved Bible for today because of your unbelief.


edit on 3-10-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 10:34 AM
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Peace and love ! Constantin invented the materialist religion known as christianity , funded by the pharisees ( money changers ) ! I highly recommend the hypostasis of the archons to all loving souls seeking enlightenment ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie




posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

from what I can tell you are lost and confused and being misled. Nothing more I can do to lead you aright in God being powerful enough to give you a preserved Bible for today because of your unbelief.



So, the "god of the Bible" is powerful enough to override man's freewill, when it comes to a book, and make sure those men wrote everything down exactly as he wanted....yet, doesn't protect innocents, or his own people a lot of the time? Oky doke.



posted on Oct, 3 2016 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: mysticalmetalhippie

Thanks, man. I'll check it out.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you already made your complaint of God inequities and atrocities known and he has heard you. Now you will have to wait your turn in court to accuse him.

He did not over ride their free will. they were complacent, holy and godly men.



posted on Oct, 4 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
you already made your complaint of God inequities and atrocities known and he has heard you. Now you will have to wait your turn in court to accuse him.

He did not over ride their free will. they were complacent, holy and godly men.


You were there? What is "Holy"? Seriously, I'd love your definition of that word.....cause I don't see the things " YHWH" has done, as holy. What is "godly"? What would goodness look like, Chester?

So, (to keep on the topic of the OP), Paul said a bunch of super spiritual sounding things, while simultaneously degrading women ("shameful for women to even speak in church), degrading the true disciples/apostles that Jesus CHOSE, and abrogating the law of the God you say is the ONE true God. Huh.
Oh, and YHWH, who you believe is the father of Yahshua, killed millions for the slightest infraction, all because he COULD. Not to mention demanding blood sacrifice of innocent animals to atone for the sins of his "people". Well, by golly then, that's a god I can believe in and love. Yea, he's so "holy", no one can approach him...and he's so holy, the only way he can even be in the PRESENCE of us sinful mortals, is if something innocent DIES in our place.
Doesn't sound too omnipotent to me...
Sounds kinda evil. I'm not worried about a time when I have to give an account for all I've said against him. I know evil behavior when I see it. If he wants to accuse me of slander, I'm gonna ask him, where the heck he was when all those "atrocities" were done because he WANTED them done.

edit on 4-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Spot on regarding the Epistle of James and it being a rebuttal to Pauline theology.

It was never popular with the Church except for the verse used to support Priestly confession and to counterbalance Pauls insistence on the worthlessness of good deeds/works.

John gets into him too and Revelation deciphered and matched up with information in the New Testament seals the deal. Eyes to see, ears to hear, it's not just a cute phrase whoever assembled the current New Testament was probably counting on the illiteracy of the populace and lack of availability to keep the story spoken different from how it's read.

Now we have a wealth of reliable translations of varying degrees but the story is plainly centered around Paul's epistles deceiving many into submission and only a relative handful of people realize that he matches the description of a false prophet and the false prophet/beast (one of three).



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Spot on regarding the Epistle of James and it being a rebuttal to Pauline theology.

It was never popular with the Church except for the verse used to support Priestly confession and to counterbalance Pauls insistence on the worthlessness of good deeds/works.

John gets into him too and Revelation deciphered and matched up with information in the New Testament seals the deal. Eyes to see, ears to hear, it's not just a cute phrase whoever assembled the current New Testament was probably counting on the illiteracy of the populace and lack of availability to keep the story spoken different from how it's read.

Now we have a wealth of reliable translations of varying degrees but the story is plainly centered around Paul's epistles deceiving many into submission and only a relative handful of people realize that he matches the description of a false prophet and the false prophet/beast (one of three).


Yes....and if you only knew how many women or pastor's wives I've known who said, "the first time I read Paul...I thought, what an arrogant jerk!"....THEN, they have to shut down their female intuition and their plain gut feeling on the man, because you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, question the (insert booming voice here) "WORD OF GOD!!" It had to have been even harder for those pastor's wives.
Sheesh. I even had a woman recently, who runs a private Christian school, tell me that. Oh, of course now, she loooooves Paul. I felt like telling her, "mam, you should have gone with your gut".
It's sad, because unless you are actually brave enough to step out of the indoctrination and research on your own, you will stay indoctrinated and in fear of actually asking questions. Most can't even hear the words of the true Jesus, because Paul drowns Him out....and so do those pastors and all those Christian authors of TOO MANY dang books.
Jeez people, just listen to Jesus.



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Holy, context always defines the word

Ex 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me: neither shall ye eat [any] flesh [that is] torn of beasts in the field; ye shall cast it to the dogs.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.


Godly also defined by its context

Ps 4:3 But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.
Ps 32:6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


If you need more just go tot the preserved word of God and look up every use of the word Holy or Godly and read the context and define the word for yourself. No need to ask me to define it for you. The preserved word of God is like a dictionary of the words it uses.

You have yet to rightly divide so everything Paul says seems to be in opposition to all the rest of the Bible. I can't help you there. You either believe God kept hsi promise in psalm 12:6 , 7 and preserved his words or he didn't.

Seeing you don't believe God is powerful enough to keep his words to every generation as promised then it is all corrupt to you.

To me it is all pure and true all 66 books of the Preserved Holy Bible.

God Created Christianity like it or lump it.



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 07:19 PM
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edit on 5-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






If you need more just go tot the preserved word of God and look up every use of the word Holy or Godly and read the context and define the word for yourself. No need to ask me to define it for you. The preserved word of God is like a dictionary of the words it uses.


Righteous......
1.(of a person or conduct) morally right or justifiable; virtuous:

"he is a good, righteous man, I am sure" ·
 

synonyms: good · virtuous · upright · upstanding · decent · ethical ·
 


Holy.....
1.dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred:

"the Holy Bible" ·
 

synonyms: sacred · consecrated · hallowed · sanctified · sacrosanct ·
 


Ok.....so tell me what is decent and ethical about all the atrocities YHWH ordered, committed, and acquiesced to in the OT?




Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


Yea....ok....so, let's go back to what RIGHTEOUS means...(decent and ethical come to mind). Do you think it's decent and ethical to take the life of a sentient being....knowing full well that the "FATHER" wanted us to eat vegetables, herbs, and plants from the beginning, and that's where we will wind up in the end? So, what right do you have to do it now?
Because YHWH says so? Don't you wonder which god you are listening to?



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






To me it is all pure and true all 66 books of the Preserved Holy Bible.


Here's some "pure" for ya.....
1.Only unblemished males are to be killed and offered to God. Females don't even make good burnt offerings. 1:3, 10

2.When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do. 4:22-28

3."If any one of the common people sin through ignorance ... then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned."
If a common person sins through ignorance, then kill a female goat. (More important people must kill male goats.) 4:27-28

4."He shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD ... a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats."
If you touch an insect, dead animal, or "the uncleanness of man" or if you swear to do something good or bad (5:2-4), kill a female lamb or goat for God. (A female will do since it's a minor offense.) 5:6

5."She shall be unclean."
Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. (And baby girls make them twice as sinful and dirty as baby boys do.) 12:1-5

6."If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days ... And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days."
If a boy is born, the mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days. 12:2, 4

7."But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks ... and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days."
If a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys. 12:5

8."She shall bring a lamb ... for a burnt offering, and... a young pigeon, or dove, for a sin offering."
After a woman gives birth, a priest must kill a lamb, pigeon, or dove as a sin offering. This is because having children is sinful and God likes it when things are killed for him. 12:6

9."She shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood." 12:7

10."If she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons ... and she shall be clean." 12:8

11."The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even." 15:18

12.God's law for menstruating women
They are unclean and sinful. Anything that they touch is unclean. Anyone who touches anything that they touch is unclean. Stay completely away from them. (And for God's sake, don't even think about having sex with them!) 15:19-30, 33

13."If a woman have an issue, and her issue... be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even." 15:19

14."And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean." 15:20

15."And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even." 15:21

16."Whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall ... be unclean until the even." 15:22

17."And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even." 15:23

18."If any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean." 15:24

19."If a woman have an issue of her blood ... she shall be unclean." 15:25

20."Every bed whereon she lieth ... and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean." 15:26

21."Whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean." 15:27

22."But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean."
Women are unclean while mestruating and for seven days after bleeding has stopped. 15:28

23."On the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons ... for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness." 15:29-30

24."This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him ... And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her that is unclean." 15:32-33

25.A man who has sex with a menstruating woman "shall be unclean seven days." 15:24

26."Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is apart for her uncleanness," Don't even look at a menstruating woman. 18:19

27.If a man has sex with an engaged slave woman, scourge the woman, but don't punish the man. (Even if he raped her?) 19:20-22

28.If a man has sex with his father's wife, kill them both. 20:11

29.If a man has sex with his daughter in law, kill them both. 20:12

30.If a man has sex with his wife and her mother (now that sounds like fun!), burn to death all three. 20:14

31.If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed. 20:15-16

32.If a man has sex with a menstruating woman, they both "shall be cut off from among their people." 20:18

33.People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27

34.Priests can't marry "whores", "profane", or divorced women. Why? Because "he is holy unto his God" and they would defile him. 21:7

35.A priest's daughter who "plays the whore" is to be burned to death. 21:9

36.A priest can only marry a virgin. No harlots, widows, or divorced women will do. (God really likes virgins.) 21:13-14

37.If a priest's daughter marries "a stranger" she can't eat any holy things. 22:12

38."Ye shall offer ... a male without blemish ... Blind, or broken, or maimed, or having a wen, or scurvy, or scabbed, ye shall not offer these unto the LORD ... Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut."
God wants us to kill lots of animals for him. Not just any animals, though. God only wants dead, male animals without any blemishes. Don't kill any blind , broken, maimed, or scabbed, or female animials for him. 22:19-24

39.God defines the value of human life in dollars and cents. Of course, to God, females are worth considerably less than males (50 - 60%) -- but neither are worth much. 27:3-7



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






God Created Christianity like it or lump it.


No, Paul created Christianity (with some help from Constantine and some other dark entities).
Jesus came to show us the true Father.
Think I'll lump it, Chester.



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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The WHOLE Bible is patriarchal. Wonder why that is? Did you know that the Holy Spirit is a feminine noun in Hebrew?
Wonder why that is? Could it be that the HS is a "she" (wisdom personified) and not a "he"???
Just saying.


edited to add....where the heck do you think the feminine qualities of the TRUE CREATOR came from? What? Are women just chopped liver?
Didn't HE make us in the image of Himself (male/female He created THEM)??
It's only YHWH and PAUL who say that woman comes from man. Don't think so.
edit on 5-10-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! The letter killeth but the spirit gives life ! The bible is not to be taken literally ! We are all spiritual beings , not physical bodies ! The bible is corrupted with communist foot notes and the sayings of jesus are barely there and the sayings that are left are watered down figurativelly ! Again , i very highly recommend enlightenment to all loving souls ! Enlightenment means to lighten the mind and this is what the illusionati do not want us to acheive , because they cannot control us if we acheive this state of mind ! The illusionati have lost all their love , truth , empathy , sympathy etc..... ! Illumination breaks the cycle of reincarnation for each soul ! Materialists cannot acheive illumination , only spiritualists can ! No one owns us ! We are all here to learn to love one another and live by the truth ! Confirmation is far more profitible than conformity ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: mysticalmetalhippie
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! The letter killeth but the spirit gives life ! The bible is not to be taken literally ! We are all spiritual beings , not physical bodies ! The bible is corrupted with communist foot notes and the sayings of jesus are barely there and the sayings that are left are watered down figurativelly ! Again , i very highly recommend enlightenment to all loving souls ! Enlightenment means to lighten the mind and this is what the illusionati do not want us to acheive , because they cannot control us if we acheive this state of mind ! The illusionati have lost all their love , truth , empathy , sympathy etc..... ! Illumination breaks the cycle of reincarnation for each soul ! Materialists cannot acheive illumination , only spiritualists can ! No one owns us ! We are all here to learn to love one another and live by the truth ! Confirmation is far more profitible than conformity ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie


Dude...I really like and appreciate you.



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! I have confirmed everything as i am a fully enlightened soul ! Thanks brother for your kind words ! True mysticism is within ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie



posted on Oct, 5 2016 @ 11:10 PM
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originally posted by: mysticalmetalhippie
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Peace and love ! I have confirmed everything as i am a fully enlightened soul ! Thanks brother for your kind words ! True mysticism is within ! Peace and love from the mystical metal hippie


to you, as well.
Thank you for your kindness.



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