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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Jan, 22 2017 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

Could we perchance hear an answer of yours to a specific issue brought up in the video or this long asz thread?

Because saying you can and doing it are two different things entirely.

One you have done, the other, not so much.




posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: Joshuabennone

See I told you, you were not fooling anyone.

Matrixsurvivor, you would do well to mark this troll as he has already been banned three times under three different user acct manes n this thread alone. He is a liar and a deceiver and you would do best not to encourage such anti-Christian propagandist as he.

Remember what I have said so far throughout this thread if you cast that Paul as a liar you destroy most of the NT and his expansion on the teachings of Christ, that follows with the elimination of the Bible as truthful and correct in anyway including the OT, that is unbelief in the words of God which in turn is unbelief in God's promise to send a man to save the world first given in Genesis 3, that makes anyone who does not believe God's words unsaved and unlearned in the word of God, which means they can be deceived by every wind of doctrine of man.

follow 2 Tim 2:15 ad you cannot go wrong.



edit on 24-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

I have never since I have been saved ever used my faith in Christ or the grace of God as an excuse to sin I know people who say they are saved sin the most horrendous sins, then claim it is all under the blood. Not sure they were truly saved but could have been later.

Those who would say all Christians use their religion for a means to get away with sin is disingenuous at best and out right lie at worse.

All sin and come short of the glory of God and that includes Christians we sin but we also confess our sis and he is just and faithful to forgive us our sins, for we have an advocate in Christ Jesus.




edit on 24-1-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Hello Akragon, been a while. I watched the video fully, ate lunch, played a game, then made an account and posted here. What do you mean how did I watch the video in half an hour? The video was a waste of time though, no conclusion, no answers, nothing but conjecture that you have to have FAITH in and take his words for.

I'll keep my faith in God and His words.
edit on 24-1-2017 by Hilkiah1611 because: i can



posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: Joshuabennone

In reply to your question, no, you cannot be a Christian and disbelieve Paul. Matter of fact, you cannot even be CALLED a Christian without Paul. Without Paul Bible believers would just be called converted Jews. Paul gave the revelation of how God offered his grace and salvation freely to gentiles after His own people (Jews) rejected Him.

Gentiles being saved by grace through faith (me) is nothing more than God's second plan for mankind. He allows gentiles to be saved like we are now in order to make the Jews mad. Yes, that is the reason, plenty of scripture backs this up, wrote by Paul, a Jew of Jews.

To compound the matter and give you a headache, you will go to Hell if all you do is follow what Jesus Christ taught in the Gospels. Matthew 19:17. Look up the verse in a King James Bible. It is the words and command of Jesus. And if you follow it you will go to Hell.

2 Timothy 2:15 is ignored today, which is why there is over 2000+ "Christian" flavors out there.



posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

SO...

IF you keep his commandments you'll go to hell...

Gotcha...




posted on Jan, 24 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul....and more PAUL.
Goodness people (Pauline Christians, I mean).....you would be just fine listening ONLY to Jesus.
In fact, Jesus didn't even represent YHWH. He represented the MOST HIGH GOD, who is nothing like YHWH...not even remotely.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

If you take the Bible literally and at face value, Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and gave the revelation of salvation by grace through faith to us gentiles, just as God gave the revelation of the last days to John in the book of "Revelations".

Jesus was sent to the Jews alone, not gentiles. Jesus said this right out of His own mouth, multiple times. This is why if you obey the commands of Jesus as found when He walked this earth before He died, you would go to Hell. His commands were basically the same things found in the Old Testament, keep the law and commandments. He added some things in the sermon on the mount, but the message was clear, repent and do good works.

This message if preached today (as it is in all catholic, and most protestant churches) would send you to Hell. God's message today is not do good works to get to Heaven, its trust in Jesus Christs sinless life to get you to Heaven. He lived the perfect life that you could not live. He died for you in your place so you don't have to die and burn in Hell, and Jesus rose from the dead to prove you will too and will live forever.

All this is right there in the Bible, you just have to believe it. After all, belief is what qualifies you for salvation.



posted on Jan, 25 2017 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

Thank you for stating exactly what is wrong with Christianity...

much appreciated





posted on Jan, 26 2017 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

What's wrong with what I said? This is what the Holy Bible teaches, its pretty clear. Are you saying you can earn your way to Heaven on your own? Because I can't, I'm to wicked to earn my place in Heaven. I need a Savior to buy my ticket for me.



posted on Jan, 26 2017 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

Im saying there is no ticket... especially the one you describe

The golden ticket to sin... Faith alone




posted on Jan, 26 2017 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

But faith in what?!?! You have to have faith in something that is real and true. What faith and whose faith? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God? God that came down in the flesh?



posted on Jan, 26 2017 @ 07:30 PM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611

This thread isn't about me or my beliefs...

but no... Jesus was not God... He was Gods son, as he actually stated many times...

And HE did not teach faith alone... he clearly taught faith plus works




posted on Jan, 26 2017 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Ok, thanks. And yes I agree, Jesus did teach faith plus works. But He also taught mankind must be "born again"....whatcha think that means? Also, I too am a son of God, but not like Jesus was, He was begotten. I was brought into the family of God by adoption. But my dead spirit was born again when I believed on Jesus for salvation from Hell, Sin and Self.
edit on 26-1-2017 by Hilkiah1611 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 01:43 AM
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Does Your Faith Move You to Action?

THE army officer was convinced that Jesus could cure the paralysis of the officer’s slave. But the army officer did not invite Jesus into his home, perhaps because he felt unworthy or because he was a Gentile. Instead, the officer had some older men of the Jews approach Jesus and say: “Sir, I am not a fit man for you to enter under my roof, but just say the word and my manservant will be healed.” Noting that the army officer believed that Jesus could heal even from a distance, Jesus told the crowd following him: “I tell you the truth, With no one in Israel have I found so great a faith.”—Matthew 8:5-10; Luke 7:1-10.

This experience can help us focus on an essential element of faith. True faith is not passive belief; it is backed up by action. The Bible writer James explained: “Faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.” (James 2:17) This fact becomes even clearer when we consider a real example of what can happen when faith becomes inactive.

In 1513 B.C.E., the nation of Israel was joined to Jehovah God by means of the Law covenant. As mediator of that covenant, Moses conveyed God’s word to the sons of Israel: “If you will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then you will certainly become . . . a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:3-6) Yes, Israel’s holiness was dependent on obedience.

Many centuries later, the Jews began to attach more importance to a study of the Law than to the application of its principles. In his book The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Alfred Edersheim wrote: “The [rabbis]—the ‘great ones of the world’ had long settled it, that study was before works.”

Granted, the ancient Israelites were commanded to study God’s requirements diligently. God himself said: “These words that I am commanding you today must prove to be on your heart; and you must inculcate them in your son and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up.” (Deuteronomy 6:6, 7) But did Jehovah ever mean for a study of the Law to take precedence over actions in harmony with it or indicated by it? Let us see.

Scholarly Works

Placing extreme emphasis on a study of the Law might have made sense to the Israelites, since a certain Jewish tradition held that God himself spent three hours every day studying the Law. You can see why some Jews might reason, ‘If God regularly studies the Law, should not his earthly creatures be consumed with doing the same?’

By the first century C.E., the rabbis’ obsession with dissecting and interpreting the Law had completely distorted their thinking. “The scribes and the Pharisees . . . say but do not perform,” said Jesus. “They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.” (Matthew 23:2-4) Those religious leaders weighed the common people down with innumerable rules and regulations, but they themselves hypocritically created loopholes that would exclude them from observing those same laws. Moreover, those men who concentrated on scholarly efforts “disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness.”—Matthew 23:16-24.

How ironic that in seeking to establish their own righteousness, the scribes and the Pharisees ended up violating the very Law that they claimed to uphold! All the centuries of debates over words and other minutiae of the Law did not bring them closer to God. The effect was similar to the deviation caused by what the apostle Paul called “empty speeches,” “contradictions,” and false “knowledge.” (1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Another serious problem, though, was the impact that endless research had on them. They did not come to have the sort of faith that moved them to right action.

Intelligent Minds, Faithless Hearts

How different the thinking of the Jewish religious leaders was from that of God! Shortly before the Israelites entered the Promised Land, Moses told them: “Apply your hearts to all the words that I am speaking in warning to you today, that you may command your sons to take care to do all the words of this law.” (Deuteronomy 32:46) Clearly, God’s people were to be not just scholars of the Law but doers of the Law.

Time and again, however, the nation of Israel proved unfaithful to Jehovah. Instead of doing the right sort of works, the sons of Israel “did not exercise faith toward him and did not listen to his voice.” (Deuteronomy 9:23; Judges 2:15, 16; 2 Chronicles 24:18, 19; Jeremiah 25:4-7) Finally, the Jews committed their ultimate act of unfaithfulness when they rejected Jesus as the Messiah. (John 19:14-16) Accordingly, Jehovah God rejected Israel and turned his attention to the nations.—Acts 13:46.

We certainly need to be careful not to fall into the same trap—thinking that we can worship God with intelligent minds but faithless hearts. To put it another way, our study of the Bible needs to be more than an academic exercise. Accurate knowledge must reach our hearts to affect our lives for the good. Would it make sense to study vegetable gardening but never plant any seeds? Granted, we might gain a certain amount of knowledge about how to cultivate a garden, but we would never harvest anything! Similarly, people who learn God’s requirements through a study of the Bible must allow seeds of truth to reach the heart in order for those seeds to sprout and move them to action.—Matthew 13:3-9, 19-23.

“Become Doers of the Word”

The apostle Paul said that “faith follows the thing heard.” (Romans 10:17) This natural progression from hearing the Word of God to exercising faith in his Son, Jesus Christ, puts us in line for everlasting life. Yes, something more is required than simply saying, ‘I believe in God and Christ.’

Jesus urged his followers to have the kind of faith that would move them to action: “My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples.” (John 15:8) Later, Jesus’ half brother James wrote: “Become doers of the word, and not hearers only.” (James 1:22) How, though, can we know what to do? By word and example, Jesus indicated what we need to do to please God.

While on earth, Jesus worked hard to promote Kingdom interests and to glorify his Father’s name. (John 17:4-8) In what way? Many people may call to mind Jesus’ miracles of healing the sick and the crippled. But Matthew’s Gospel makes clear the principal way: “Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.” Notably, Jesus did not limit his ministry to speaking casually to a few friends and acquaintances or to those he came in contact with locally. He exerted himself vigorously, using whatever means were available to him to visit people “throughout the whole of Galilee.”—Matthew 4:23, 24; 9:35.

Jesus directed his followers to share in the disciple-making work as well. Indeed, he provided a perfect example for them to imitate. (1 Peter 2:21) Jesus told his faithful disciples: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”—Matthew 28:19, 20.
...



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611
Try to keep the following in mind when asking questions about biblical subjects on the internet (don't underestimate the quantity or the gravity of the situation).

1 Timothy 4:1

However, the inspired word [Lit., “the spirit.”] clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements [Lit., “misleading spirits.”] and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.

Demon Possession: Insight, Volume 1

Some of Jesus’ greatest miracles involved the setting of possessed persons free from captivity to the demons. They were powerless against him. But not everyone was happy with his demon-expelling work. The Pharisees accused him of being in league with the ruler of the demons, Beelzebub, whereas in reality, as Jesus pointed out, they themselves were the offspring of the Devil. (Mt 9:34; 12:24; Mr 3:22; Lu 11:15; Joh 7:20; 8:44, 48-52)

The only thing that's different is that they don't call themselves Pharisees anymore, that would make it a little too obvious. But there are plenty of signs left (the videos below may give you some clues as well as answer your question, you can also watch the context in the playlist with more clues).
"Born again" ... what does it mean? part 1of 4
JW ARCHIVES DIVINE NAME JHWH YHWH JEHOVAH NWT NIV COMPARE.
The Rich Man and Lazarus 1 of 2

The ending of the 2nd video above is your first major clue and lead in to the 3rd video. Oh, if you watch the "born again" series part 4, the song below may make some more sense to you; which comes back to the phrase “Become Doers of the Word” and the topic of faith&works, "faith [that] follows the thing heard" as Paul said (see previous comment), i.e. faith that isn't dead or blind:

edit on 27-1-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: Hilkiah1611


Ok, thanks. And yes I agree, Jesus did teach faith plus works.


That is all i am saying...




But He also taught mankind must be "born again"....whatcha think that means?



that topic isn't relevent to this thread...

it needs its own


Also, I too am a son of God, but not like Jesus was, He was begotten. I was brought into the family of God by adoption. But my dead spirit was born again when I believed on Jesus for salvation from Hell, Sin and Self.


Your "dead" spirit...

One comes to realizations, but the spirit doesn't die....

Nor is it condemned....




posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 05:00 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Hilkiah1611

Your "dead" spirit...

One comes to realizations, but the spirit doesn't die....

Nor is it condemned....



Hey digger,

What do you mean by this?

The spirit is dead yet hasn't died!!

Tis a contradiction.

Coomba98



posted on Jan, 27 2017 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: coomba98

Read it again brother...

Mr.1611 said his spirit was dead, not i...




posted on Jan, 28 2017 @ 04:29 AM
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Brought a religion meant for folks of Jewish descent and let the second class citizens labelled Gentiles join up, yeah, he did that. Darn religion was about dead till he did that. Ended up pretty powerful, collected a lot of gold, smart move on his part by inviting them Gentiles into the fold.
Should have considered giving the bible a rewrite so it didn't come off as so racist at the same time.


edit on 28-1-2017 by D8Tee because: (no reason given)



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