Were the Jews Expecting the Son of God?

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon
No... but unlike some people, and many, IF not most Christians...

I know scripture

So who do you propose fulfilled that particular prophesy?

it wasn't a prophecy...

read the chapter instead of taking one verse out of context

Then why the future tense?

read.... the... Chapter

Done. And the prophesy is for the House of David. It says not when.. so when did the virgin (sorry maiden) conceive?

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon
No... but unlike some people, and many, IF not most Christians...

I know scripture

So who do you propose fulfilled that particular prophesy?

it wasn't a prophecy...

read the chapter instead of taking one verse out of context

Then why the future tense?

read.... the... Chapter

Done. And the prophesy is for the House of David. It says not when.. so when did the virgin (sorry maiden) conceive?

Well... they're still waiting are they not?

I get it... Im sure you've been drilled with this stuff most of your life...

Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: JoshuaCox

The Christian world will always support and defend Judaism for political reasons. Scripture has nothing to do with it at a certain point.

So why? Because so much of the western world's governments will bend over backwards for Israel. Simple as that.

Naivety is a sweet thing to suffer but the reason Governments bend over to appease the Israeli Government is because of its ruthlessness. They have very long memories and will over react 1000% to get their point across and this includes assassinations and murder.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Pretty sure he was asking about jewish scripture, not the Christian interpretation of it

Yeah pretty sure he was as well.
How many of the apostles were Jewish, all, some none ???

It bothers me, people who act like they know everything but know very little

Oh thats right, you dont believe in the apostles or Paul or something like that

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: Akragon
No... but unlike some people, and many, IF not most Christians...

I know scripture

Ad hominem but no substance..?

Why assume i was speaking of You...

thats called a blanket statement, and for the most part its true... and so were my previous statements

For the most part, perhaps, but not that part about the Messiah.

no that was also correct...

and as i said in my first post... the OP is looking for jewish scripture, not the Christian interpretation of it...

why do i have to keep repeating myself here

but they're the same scripture.. it's the same book!

its many books between the same cover... the OT isn't Christian material, they adopted it into the religion, and reinterpreted it to suit their teaching

example...

Christians will try to tell people that the passage in genesis that says "let us make man in our image" is a reference to the trinity... tell that to someone that is jewish and they'll laugh their asses off

Elohim can be both masculine and feminine... and it can denote many "beings"... but it NEVER means three in one, or three equals one... or anything of the like

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Pretty sure he was asking about jewish scripture, not the Christian interpretation of it

Yeah pretty sure he was as well.
How many of the apostles were Jewish, all, some none ???

It bothers me, people who act like they know everything but know very little

Oh thats right, you dont believe in the apostles or Paul or something like that

that has nothing to do with anything in this thread...

stick to the topic... not the poster

originally posted by: Akragon


Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

Thats a fact or your opinion that you demand others accept because you tell them to

Fundamentalist much?

I believe by faith Christ is the Jewish Messiah, sent to gentiles as well.
Its not a fact, its my faith, I dont demand that on anyone.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon


Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

Thats a fact or your opinion that you demand others accept because you tell them to

Fundamentalist much?

I believe by faith Christ is the Jewish Messiah, sent to gentiles as well.
Its not a fact, its my faith, I dont demand that on anyone.

tell you what... when you make a thread about your beliefs.... we will discuss this there

I couldn't care less what you believe... Im just telling you what Jewish scripture says according to them

Don't like it... don't read it

simple

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


This came up in my western civilization class and our very evangelical teacher didn't know.



Were the Jews expecting a warrior king who was the son of God, or just (just lol) a warrior King who would be the next prophet?

All I can find from Google is a bunch of Christian sites with Jewish in their site name and every story claiming Christianity was right all along. Lol

Which would be extremely silly for a religion to be like "oops were were wrong and Christianity was right... Guess we will all convert."

PS..

What is up with all the Christian sites pretending to be Jewish?

the Jewish Messiah is nothing like the Christian version...

Said Messiah is supposed to be a great political leader that will rid the world of Evil, and restore their religious system, including their courts... Which by the way, is one of the many reasons they rejected Jesus

This person will be Human, not a god... or demigod... or anything supernatural for that matter...

He will be a great leader on the political and military scene of the world...

So they're waiting on a leader... and a warrior, not a king... and most definitely not a Son of God, or "The" son of God... or anything of the sort

Hope that helps

Thank you. Any clue of a site I could read more? History sites?

originally posted by: Akragon

Christians will try to tell people that the passage in genesis that says "let us make man in our image" is a reference to the trinity... tell that to someone that is jewish and they'll laugh their asses off

Except this

www.chabad.org...

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל הָאָרֶץ וּבְכָל הָרֶמֶשׂ הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל הָאָרֶץ:

www.hebrew-streams.org...

and it is hotly debated by even Jews who acknowledge its legitimacy as scripture

The Jews dont laugh at all, in fact it gets a great deal of discussion. Laugh, no not at all

www.google.com.au...=a+jewish+response+%22let+us+make+man+in+our+image%22

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon


Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

Thats a fact or your opinion that you demand others accept because you tell them to

Fundamentalist much?

I believe by faith Christ is the Jewish Messiah, sent to gentiles as well.
Its not a fact, its my faith, I dont demand that on anyone.

tell you what... when you make a thread about your beliefs.... we will discuss this there

I couldn't care less what you believe... Im just telling you what Jewish scripture says according to them

Don't like it... don't read it

simple

Yeah and he is saying that according to any Jew you ask. They where not prophesied to have a son of God in the first place. Which is easily verifiable either way.

So there is nothing fundamentalist about it.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon


Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

Thats a fact or your opinion that you demand others accept because you tell them to

Fundamentalist much?

I believe by faith Christ is the Jewish Messiah, sent to gentiles as well.
Its not a fact, its my faith, I dont demand that on anyone.

tell you what... when you make a thread about your beliefs.... we will discuss this there

I couldn't care less what you believe... Im just telling you what Jewish scripture says according to them

Don't like it... don't read it

simple

No you are just forcing an invalid opinion you have at me

Thanks but, no
Clearly you dont know what Jews thing, clearly because you havnt backed anything you have said up with references or links.
Just demanded others accept what you want them to believe.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


This came up in my western civilization class and our very evangelical teacher didn't know.



Were the Jews expecting a warrior king who was the son of God, or just (just lol) a warrior King who would be the next prophet?

All I can find from Google is a bunch of Christian sites with Jewish in their site name and every story claiming Christianity was right all along. Lol

Which would be extremely silly for a religion to be like "oops were were wrong and Christianity was right... Guess we will all convert."

PS..

What is up with all the Christian sites pretending to be Jewish?

the Jewish Messiah is nothing like the Christian version...

Said Messiah is supposed to be a great political leader that will rid the world of Evil, and restore their religious system, including their courts... Which by the way, is one of the many reasons they rejected Jesus

This person will be Human, not a god... or demigod... or anything supernatural for that matter...

He will be a great leader on the political and military scene of the world...

So they're waiting on a leader... and a warrior, not a king... and most definitely not a Son of God, or "The" son of God... or anything of the sort

Hope that helps

Thank you. Any clue of a site I could read more? History sites?

Heres a good start on the subject...

www.jewfaq.org...

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon


Jesus wasn't the person they were, and are waiting for... its just a fact

Thats a fact or your opinion that you demand others accept because you tell them to

Fundamentalist much?

I believe by faith Christ is the Jewish Messiah, sent to gentiles as well.
Its not a fact, its my faith, I dont demand that on anyone.

tell you what... when you make a thread about your beliefs.... we will discuss this there

I couldn't care less what you believe... Im just telling you what Jewish scripture says according to them

Don't like it... don't read it

simple

No you are just forcing an invalid opinion you have at me

Thanks but, no
Clearly you dont know what Jews thing, clearly because you havnt backed anything you have said up with references or links.
Just demanded others accept what you want them to believe.

No im not forcing anything... You just prefer to deny anything that disagrees with your opinion or beliefs...

the evidence of which is all over this forum... Here and in soooo many evolution discussions

I demand nothing... take what i say however you like...

and i will do the same with your... whatever you call your posts

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon

Christians will try to tell people that the passage in genesis that says "let us make man in our image" is a reference to the trinity... tell that to someone that is jewish and they'll laugh their asses off

Except this

www.chabad.org...

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל הָאָרֶץ וּבְכָל הָרֶמֶשׂ הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל הָאָרֶץ:

www.hebrew-streams.org...

and it is hotly debated by even Jews who acknowledge its legitimacy as scripture

The Jews dont laugh at all, in fact it gets a great deal of discussion. Laugh, no not at all

www.google.com.au...=a+jewish+response+%22let+us+make+man+in+our+image%22

Hebrew stream is a Christian site masquerading as a Jewish site, I'm pretty sure.

Looking at the directory it was full of NT stuff and the about page says the author isn't a professional.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon

Christians will try to tell people that the passage in genesis that says "let us make man in our image" is a reference to the trinity... tell that to someone that is jewish and they'll laugh their asses off

Except this

www.chabad.org...

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ וְיִרְדּוּ בִדְגַת הַיָּם וּבְעוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה וּבְכָל הָאָרֶץ וּבְכָל הָרֶמֶשׂ הָרֹמֵשׂ עַל הָאָרֶץ:

www.hebrew-streams.org...

and it is hotly debated by even Jews who acknowledge its legitimacy as scripture

The Jews dont laugh at all, in fact it gets a great deal of discussion. Laugh, no not at all

www.google.com.au...=a+jewish+response+%22let+us+make+man+in+our+image%22

Hebrew stream is a Christian site masquerading as a Jewish site, I'm pretty sure.

Looking at the directory it was full of NT stuff and the about page says the author isn't a professional.

Right...

thats why i didn't bother

originally posted by: JoshuaCox


Yeah and he is saying that according to any Jew you ask. They where not prophesied to have a son of God in the first place. Which is easily verifiable either way.

So there is nothing fundamentalist about it.

Yeah
Thats exactly what he is saying

But I know Messianic Jews who accept that Christ is God

www.gotquestions.org...

other key pointers in the OT, yes they are debatable and I dont want to debate faith with anyone
www.sharefaith.com...

You believe or you dont

a reply to: Akragon

But you will ignore Chabad
Anything to justify the confirmation bias

I can accept that Ak, thats fine and your choice, its all good
Just dond demand others have to accept it because you do, thats fundamentalism

a reply to: Raggedyman

But you will ignore Chabad
Anything to justify the confirmation bias

funny... I could have sworn this thread wasn't about me... perhaps im wrong

Again, what i said... Elohim is NEVER used to denote a triune anything

Plural yes... three in one... or three equals one... Never ever

I can accept that Ak, thats fine and your choice, its all good
Just dond demand others have to accept it because you do, thats fundamentalism

Don't use words you don't understand...

Im not forcing anything on anyone... and i couldn't care less who accepts what i say or does not...

Yes there are messianic Jews... but that wasn't part of the OP either

So as per usual, You're trolling to push your beliefs... while stuffing your head in the ground when others disagree with you... well done

Wheres a moderator when you need one...

Geesus man

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Were the Jews expecting a warrior king who was the son of God, or just (just lol) a warrior King who would be the next prophet?

They were expecting the rightful heir of David's "God given dynasty" to take David's throne. David himself, as story goes, was called "the Son of God" by the god through adoption, and also the Son of David is also called Son of God through adoption.(Psalm 2; 89:3,4,26-29; 2 Sam. 7:11-14)

And of coarse, the destiny of the Son of David (his dynasty at least) is to rule the whole World as an empire with Zion as the capital of the World and all the nations pay tribute tax to the Emperor or else.

That's the Jewish Messiah and that's the Age to Come. (according to Old Testament and most modern Judaism)

What is up with all the Christian sites pretending to be Jewish?

Back in the 1970s it was common for Christians to get all ecstatic over hearing a Jewish prayer in Hebrew. That ecstasy has now morphed into some Christians who know a few Hebrew names and words thinking they are more like Jesus than people who don't know those Hebrew words.