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Donald Trump and George Soros: The Plot Thickens

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posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:44 AM
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There has been some talk about the connections between Trump and Soros, some of it from me. Even some of the more mainstream sources (right and left) have pointed out a few of these. While I am going to go into a bit more detail on Mnuchin than other sources have, that's not really what I wanted to discuss so before you TLDR me, if you don't have the time, please skip down to where I get to the the stuff that's not been reported on exhaustively.

Donald Trump's National Finance Chairman and one of his economic advisors is Steven Mnuchin. Steven Mnuchin started his career with Goldman Sachs, where he worked for 17 years, rising to CIO and leaving at the age of 39 owning a $46 million stake in Goldman Sachs.

From there he did a few months long stint at a college roommate's firm before becoming the CEO of George Soros's SFM Capital Management where he oversaw the investment of about $1 billion dollars of Soros's money. Mnuchin is also well known for financing/co-financing movies including a number of blockbusters (Avatar, the X-Men series, Mad Max: Fury Road, etc) through his company Dune Entertainmnet, subsidary of Dune Capital (as of 2013, merged with RatPac Entertainment to form RatPac-Dune Entertainment, primary co-financing partner of Warner Bros).

In 2009, Mnuchin lead a group of seven investors to purchase failed housing lender, IndyMac which then became OneWest Bank with Mnuchin as the Chairman of the Board. Aside from Mnuchin (Dune Capital), the other investors were Michael Dell (MSD Capital) and:

IndyMac sold to investor group for $13.9B


Other investors in the partnership include five private equity firms or hedge funds: J.C. Flowers & Co.; Stone Point Capital; Paulson & Co.; a fund controlled by billionaire George Soros' Fund Management; and a fund controlled by Silar Advisors LP.


(for those who like to pay attention, you'll notice that another investor was Paulson & Co, the investment management firm of John Paulson, another of Trump's economic advisors who infamously made $4 billion PERSONALLY in 2007 on credit default swaps. So yeah, he made money betting against the banks and then picking the bones of foreclosed homeowners afterward)

Bonus: while Chair at OneWest, Mnuchin (Dune) formed a partnership with Relativity Media with Mnuchin becoming the co-chair of Relativity Media. Relativity went belly up in 2011 but not before Mnuchin quietly resigned and not before in some shady business, OneWest quietly siphoned out $50 million from Relativity (spurring questions from jilted investors as to the ethics of Mnuchin/OneWest recouping losses from this sinking ship directly before filing Chapter 11).

ALAS! This is not a thread about Mnuchin and I'm regretting spending this much time on him. While it's an interesting connection, it's more of the "friend of a friend" variety but there are direct links between Soros and Trump, including their investments in the GM building in Manhattan and both being named in a RICO suit in 2008 (pertaining to those investments) but perhaps the most widely reported connection involves the financing of the Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago.

Bear with me, we're almost there!

In 2004, Donald Trump got a $160 million dollar mezzanine loan from a trio of investors to cover the gap in financing beyond the $640 million he borrowed from Deutsche Bank. Thi s trio included Fortress Investment Group, Blackacre Institutional Capital (a subsidary of Trump donor and economic advisor Steve Feinberg's Cerberus Capital Management) and Grove Capital — a subsidary of Soros Fund Managment.
edit on 2016-9-10 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



+2 more 
posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:44 AM
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Here's where I get to the point

While this is something that has been reported on, most of the reporting has not been in any real detail but as I alluded to in the title, the plot thickens.

In 2008, the Deutsche Bank loan matured and Trump didn't have the $334 million balance. This resulted in a lawsuit and countersuit and after all the legal wrangling, Deutsche Bank agreed to extend his loan term to July of 2013.

From a fluff piece in the Commercial Observer, owned by Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kusher, published in 2012:


So far 337 of the 486 residential condos have been purchase. [sic] The building also has hotel-condo hybrid flats, which customers buy and then rent out as hotel rooms when the owners are not using the place. Of the 339 hotel-condo units, only 159 have sold by the end of 2011.


The article also mentions that the $334 million balance on the Deutsche Bank loan has been paid down to $125 million in the 3+ year interim. The building was in fact generating plenty of revenue to pay the loans by all appearances. The article also mentions that the WSJ reported that Trump bought out the junior creditors (the Fortress-Soros-Feinberg trio) for $48 million.

Here's where things don't quite add up. (aka "the money shot")

Chicago Tribune -Trump turns to tower's commercial space


Trump said he feels no urgency to start cutting prices on the condos. The 89th floor penthouse, a raw space, was recently listed for $32 million, making it the most expensive Chicago residence in the local multiple listing service.

That patience is the result of a deal Trump made earlier this year. In March [2012], he paid $48 million, according to a person close to the deal, to buy debt with a face value of $130 million held by Fortress Investment Group and other junior creditors. "We are very solid financially," Trump said. "A building like this can never happen again."


Why the hell would a trio including George Soros and Trump buddy/advisor Steve Feinberg let go of $130 million in debt for a mere $48 million? I don't know any of these people of course but I find it hard to believe that they became billionaires by passing up on $82 million stakes in a solvent commercial real estate enterprises.

I'm not the first to notice this. As I was searching "Fortress Investment Group" and "Trump Tower" I came across not only the article in The Observer and then the Chicago Tribune article but this post at wearchange.org which connects the same dots. I don't know anything about them but the write up isn't bad and it has a whole different set of links for anyone looking for additional information (plus a scary picture of a translucent Soros face hanging above and behind Donald Trump).

They point out that with the high interest rate of a mezzanine loan, depending on the term, the total value of the loan might have reached as high as $360 million.

Perhaps the building wasn't generating the revenue it appeared to be generating and perhaps with a 15-months left on the extended term of his Deutsche Bank loan and still owing $125 million (having paid off $209 million in 3+ years), he was facing a default on the Deutsche Bank loan. In that scenario, not only was this debt inexplicably forgiven, the junior creditors doing so might actually have bailed Trump out of a sticky and potentially embarassing situation.

Why?

author's note:

Before any of you low-information Trump useful idiots rush in to flame me for not simply reposting the latest moronic conspiracy non-theory from the Drudge Report front page with a link to some hack news blog, a grainy photo of some part of Clinton's body and just enough lines of text to meet the absolute minimum standards — you know, the kind you flag 100x — you may just want to save the keystrokes.

This is more along the lines of what a proper conspiracy theory post should look like — not the insubstantial, superficial garbage that Sean "I never claimed to be a journalist" Hannity has you clamoring to share on Facebook. You make us all look bad.

Also, I delight in seeing you triggered.


edit on 2016-9-10 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:51 AM
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Surely interesting and worth watching. You always have such thorough posts and clear articulation of your thought on a subject. Now that aside why?


Before any of you low-information Trump useful idiots rush in to flame me for not simply reposting the latest moronic conspiracy non-theory from the Drudge Report front page with a link to some hack news blog, a grainy photo of some part of Clinton's body and just enough lines of text to meet the absolute minimum standards — you know, the kind you flag 100x — you may just want to save the keystrokes.



edit on 10-9-2016 by JinMI because: Spelling



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:53 AM
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Starred and flagged. Interesting topic. I can't wait to see where it goes



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

Because every thread about Trump I post is invariably met with a handful of irrelevant personal attacks on the very first page and I don't plan on responding to each of them in turn any longer. Frankly, it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time. If I had a dollar for every time I'd been called a shill this year, I'd be the one giving mezzanine loans.




posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:56 AM
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Very interesting!

Now, wait a minute, are you suggesting that Soros is a bad guy?!?!?



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:57 AM
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If I'm a banker, I can turn debt equity into electronic cash with the click of a mouse, without even collecting a penny.

All through the magic of fractional reserve banking.

So millions in debt equity can sometimes prove far more valuable to a Soros than a Trump.

No conspiracy here, besides the one that's been going on for a hundred years.



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 12:57 AM
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Remember, money talks and BS walks. The rich live not in the same world of the not so rich. Remember, a man with no money is a "nobody". And Trumpy boy is not going to let himself become a nobody.



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: abe froman
If I'm a banker, I can turn debt equity into electronic cash with the click of a mouse, without even collecting a penny.

All through the magic of fractional reserve banking.

So millions in debt equity can sometimes prove far more valuable to a Soros than a Trump.

No conspiracy here, besides the one that's been going on for a hundred years.





This is my take on it .... except it has likely been going on for a lot more than hundreds of years......

Tell you what if i lacked emotion and empathy i would be a banker too... however sometimes i wonder if it would be better to have to have lots of shiny things instead of morals....



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 01:33 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: JinMI

Because every thread about Trump I post is invariably met with a handful of irrelevant personal attacks on the very first page and I don't plan on responding to each of them in turn any longer. Frankly, it's ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time. If I had a dollar for every time I'd been called a shill this year, I'd be the one giving mezzanine loans.



Really good write up BTW..


I think the "pro" Trump angle that you are seeing is just the outright desperation from people that need and want change...

Granted there is much to debate including (One), can he run a country and (two), will he bring any change or will it be much the same??...

As a non American I do look in and say to myself how did the USA get to this point????....



Regards


RA



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 01:33 AM
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originally posted by: abe froman
If I'm a banker, I can turn debt equity into electronic cash with the click of a mouse, without even collecting a penny.

All through the magic of fractional reserve banking.

So millions in debt equity can sometimes prove far more valuable to a Soros than a Trump.

No conspiracy here, besides the one that's been going on for a hundred years.


You're going to have to expound on that. Debt and equity are different things. Debt financing and equity financing are diffrent things. Then you threw in "fractional reserve banking" without any explanation and declared that there was "no conspiracy here."

Would you care to illustrate what you're trying to say with a brief scenario perhaps?



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Probably because president the Donald has a longstanding relationship with Deutsche bank having borrowed more than 3.5 billion from them over the last decade.

And 3.5 billion is more than 100 million, but I'm just a stupid conservatard.

www.wsj.com...



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: slider1982


As a non American I do look in and say to myself how did the USA get to this point????....


Because we let it.


I think the "pro" Trump angle that you are seeing is just the outright desperation from people that need and want change...


I can understand that people believe that voting for Trump will if nothing else upset the system but I think the intitial freak out from the GOP had more to do with the fact that a non-Republican essentially hijacked the GOP nomination. Also, don't believe the hype you read around here, Trump is actively burning bridges to voters that the GOP has been hoping to court moving forward (why do you think they love Bush and Rubio?) because it won't be enough to win big with (non-hispanic) white males only. We don't dominate the electorate like we used to.

However, if a person can ignore the low hanging fruit like Trump's latest gaffe or Clinton's coughs, he can see where steps have been taken to put the establishment Right at ease. Both candidates have spent a lot of time meeting with establishment figures — sometimes as with Kissinger, the same figures — to let them know that if elected, they'll play ball.

Hardly reported at all was Stephen Moore's speech in front of the CNP. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most people have no idea who the CNP or that Bush 43's 1999 speech to the CNP and subsequent ring kissing is likely what solidified his nomination as the GOP candidate.

Stephen Moore was quite obviously sent to the CNP to convey the broad strokes of Trump's economic plan to reassure the kingmakers and power brokers. The plan btw is to try to shutdown the Dept of Energy, the Dept of Commerce, Dept of Education, eliminate TANF and then remove all regulations and restrictions on mining and drilling.

Then all the out of work Rust Belt workers can have shiny new jobs on oil rigs or in steel mills.

(you heard it first on ATS from me)

None of that makes any sense at all but it appears to be some blend of libertarianesque religious faith in free market voodoo and supply-side economics. In other words, even if it's utter nonsense, it plays well with certain crusty halfwits who meet in secret clubs.

Last I checked crude was at less than half the price as it was two years ago.



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




I can understand that people believe that voting for Trump will if nothing else upset the system


Why do you think this......why would Trump upset the system he is clearly very good at playing ?....who in their right mind upsets the apple cart they eat from ?



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: Reigning
a reply to: theantediluvian

Probably because president the Donald has a longstanding relationship with Deutsche bank having borrowed more than 3.5 billion from them over the last decade.

And 3.5 billion is more than 100 million, but I'm just a stupid conservatard.

www.wsj.com...


I think you missed something. It wasn't Deutsche Bank that took a pay off of $48 million on a $130 million debt, it was Fortress Investment, George Soros and Steve Feinberg.



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: Reigning
a reply to: theantediluvian

Probably because president the Donald has a longstanding relationship with Deutsche bank having borrowed more than 3.5 billion from them over the last decade.

And 3.5 billion is more than 100 million, but I'm just a stupid conservatard.

www.wsj.com...





I think you missed something. It wasn't Deutsche Bank that took a pay off of $48 million on a $130 million debt, it was Fortress Investment, George Soros and Steve Feinberg.




Tell me ..these numbers on a digital screen....who misses them exactly ?
edit on 10-9-2016 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 03:03 AM
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Got anything more recent and not speculative to share?



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 03:08 AM
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Come on. Where are the Trumpeters to make excuses for him?



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Come on. Where are the Trumpeters to make excuses for him?


They are getting their daily circlejerk about Hillary's new wheelchair



posted on Sep, 10 2016 @ 03:32 AM
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Not much of a plot here. Since there isn't any details at all. See your missing important details like how much of thr loan was all ready paid off. And of course how much of the loan was projected intrest which you don't get paYong it off early. And there's another problem an investment firm doesn't forgive debt ever. They would have converted it possibly but so to the fact that didn't happen that tells me he made sizable payments to pay it down. And instead of completing the term with intrest just offered them a buyout happens alot in real estate.

For example suppose I have a ten year loan with intrest the loan could be worth 100000. I've already paid down the principle to say 20000 and still have 5 yrs to go. The bank has 80000 of the principle plus intrest for 5 yrs. Meaning there 100000 investment is close to being paid. They may still need about 5 grand to cover the initial 100000. Now if I were to offer them say 18000 today 5 yrs early they made a profit and can take that money and reinvest making more than what they would make on my loan. Now here we ate talking millions they had made with the opertunity to invest it. Meaning unless you know what the principle was obviously lower than 48 mill you can't begin to understand the transaction.

All the Trump campaign has shown is how little people understand realestate investment and how it works. This is why investors tell people to stay out of real estate and hedge funds unless you know what your doing. As I can see that's good advice for most amaricans.
edit on 9/10/16 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/10/16 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)




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