The 1990s: UFOlogy's Golden Age

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: klassless

As a Millenial why did the UFO crazed died down? I gotta admit I feel like I'm born in the wrong decade. You guys have the more interesting stuff.

ultimately the rise of the internet killed off the ufo, and the no longer talked of ghosts or paranormal.

in the eighties if you wanted to find out about aliens or ghosts it involved a trip to the library to get a book or, a wait for a tv special to be aired.
i was fascinated by the philadelphia experiment, fast forward to the year 1998 when i first got online and, imagine my anger that charles berlitz, the purveyor of the philadelphia experiment and bermuda triangle was basically a charlatan just in it for the money.
all the tv specials and books it turned out were just ways to feed a cash cow of whatever hysteria was whipped up.
roswell was ignored till 1979, just after the release of the movie close encounters.
coincidence?

enter 1999, french jam maker nostradamus predicted the end of the world that year, websites about ufos and paranormal switched track and picked it up, along with the slew of books and tv shows.
after that failed end date nobody would use nostradamus again.
step forward y2k, another end date, yay!
or not.

then the very real horrors of 9/11 happened, i covered how the nWo was a search term from 1996 in another thread.
ufos coverups by government, became part of a universal government coverup conspiracy of, pretty much everything you wish to believe.

still, now, some of us still want to believe in ufos however, its very difficult with obvious fakes and misinterpretations being used as fact on youtube.

a reply to: klassless

Don't tell that to these organizations!
United States
Active

Aerial Phenomena Enquiry Network (APEN) ......

APEN? American and active.

Not sure of your source for that one? But APEN were an ultra-secretive, seemingly far right wing group based in Britain during the 1970s into the early 90s. Although their motives and identities remain unknown to this day.

See : Aerial Phenomena Enquiry Network (APEN) - Uncovered?

It's still mystery as to whether they were a political group hiding under the banner of a UFO group, whether they were part of a British operation to investigate subvertive elements of the far right or something else.

a reply to: ManInAsia

I don't agree that the 90s was Ufology's heyday.

It's all about opinions and that's a fair call.

I've read Ruppelt's book 'the estimate of the situation' and it was clear from that that UFOs were really a big deal back then!

I think you got a little muddled there. So I hope you don't mind me clarifying some things.

Ed Ruppelt's book is called "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects which you can read for free if you click the link. The 'Estimate of the Situation' is an elusive document mentioned in Ruppelt's book. It was supposedly an official USAF report from 1949 concluding that UFOs were real and that an extraterrestrial hypothesis was the most likely explanation for these UFOs. Despite Ruppelt's confirmation of it existing FOIA requests to obtain a copy have all failed to uncover a copy.

Ruppelt's book covers the early years of UFO invetigations into the early 1950s. The Space Race is, of course, relevant but did not really start until 1957 when Spunik was launched. Project Bluebook was closed in 1969 but once Ruppelt left Project Bluebook in 1953 it's effectiveness was seriously compromised. The Robertson Panel had convinced the US government to play down UFO reports and it began by ridiculing witnesses wherever possible. This was mainly due to fear and paranoia. With so many UFO reports coming in (1952 had been a peak year of unknowns) there was deep concern that the US and its allies would miss a genuine incident involving Soviet violation of allied airspace.

a reply to: mirageman

Why would Ruppelt, a company man, name such a document or state such a conclusion?

Why did ufology change so much from his time, in terms of hypothesis?

Here is how most people see some of the key events in ufology:

1940s - Kenneth Arnold, Roswell and beyond. nuts and bolts ufo hypothesis
1950 - 1960s - blue book and beyond The rise of the abductee and contactee

1970s - Bennewitz and Linda Moulten Howe - Both are met with dinsinformation campaigns paving the way for the MJ12 mythology
1980s: Lazar / RFI / MJ12 nuts and bolts mythology involving religion
1990s; hard evidence of triangles - from Belgium to the Phoenix lights

Why was it that just as we were getting more "video evidence" everything began to collapse?

Some people say the Internet destroyed ufology due to cell phones and the internet. I used to believe that until I considered that ghost hunting, occult magic and wild conspiracy theories have only flourished since then.

Here is an alternative look at urological history:

1940s: New lifting wing aircraft were being developed
1950s: Communist paranoia dovetails with experiences delivering essentially pro communist messages from the Alien Overlords
1960s: As more come to believe that nuts and bolts UFOs exist a group of higher level ufologists begin to consider the idea that demonic not alien forces are behind the phenomena
1970s: Following Shag Habour in the sixties more red spheres are seen at or around various Military installations.

Linda Moulton Howe and Paul Bennewitz independently look into cattle mutilations. Both are fed disinformation that would form the core of MJ12

1980s: From the RFI onwards - ufology becomes intertwined with extra dimensional hypotheses and radical natural phenomena

1990s: the arrival of the X Files and Dark Skies

2000s: the last great disinformation war. Project Serpo

What we have to realize is that Ufology never went mainstream. It’s still considered fringe.


Therefore, we can conclude that the CIA’s plot to diminish the public’s interest in Ufology has succeeded in the US. Whether that includes in foreign lands as well I don’t know.

Sure people go into: I think something’s out there when asked whether they believe in Aliens. So what, that is just a platitude at this point.


What it may mean is that whatever these aliens are doing they have no plans of doing a public exposure of whatever the hell their doing. They'll be no meeting with Obama in the White House and then a press conference.


The governments, I believe, realized they couldn’t do anything about whatever the aliens are doing and when they realized these aliens didn’t give a dam about whatever the governments did about them--then the governments went about ignoring what they couldn’t do anything about.


My personal view is that the alienUFO phenomenon has something to do with the advent of nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: fleabit

When I debunk, trust me, it's worth debunking and I've always been successful. Name a case I debunked and failed. You don't know anything worth knowing about Roswell and Mr Feeces-ist Friedman is its major flea.

You mean like the case we were just talking about, the Phoenix lights? You were not even aware of all the facts of the case. While I'm sure you have convinced yourself you have solved the mystery, you have not. Did you bother to check the actual locations of all the reported sightings, and correlate that with the supposed flight plan of this formation of jets? Doesn't match up, in case you are wondering. I can only assume you have simply disregarded any eyewitness testimony that is at odds with your theory about a formation of jets.

How is ignoring all eyewitness accounts that dismisses a flight of jets as the explanation intelligent investigation? Typical debunking mechanism - just ignore anything that disrupts your debunking claim. Are you that slapdash with all your debunking? No wonder you can claim "I have debunked everything! It's pretty easy when you can apparently read a few news clippings or watch one video about flares, and assume the case is closed.

Try to stay calm and when you quote be accurate. You quoted me (partially, one quote mark instead of 2 at beginning and end): "I have debunked everything!

I figured that's all that you quoted and it's incorrect. Find where I said that, put quote marks at the beginning of the quote and at the end. Then present it here to further embarrass me. You have your opinion and I'm not going to continue defending mine.

originally posted by: Tulpa
a reply to: klassless

I was speaking in very general fashion.
It seems the media has (mostly) treated UFOs as a bit of a joke and the result has been the instant crackpot effect.
I never use the word crackpot myself but its language that seems to follow the subject.

I know there's plenty of places to report to but your average Joe might not know or even want to, given the above.

To be frank, I've never seen a UFO report reported in the media where the witness was ridiculed. The only instance of ridicule is what is shown on a popular videotape where the lady that received the call is asking another authority if they were aware of the reported sighting and when the answer is negative she ends by saying "It's that Roswell thing again" or words to that effect. One shrugs off the sarcastic attitude.

I've met a few people who have seen pretty bizzare things and not reported them. Seen one or two myself that I'm not sure about but, regrettably, its just not that important to some.
I asked a friend if he reported a sighting once and he said "Why?"
I really couldn't think of an answer that would've swayed him.

I've had quite a few good sightings and I never reported any of them 'cause I've known from day one that it's a waste of time. If I had taped them my first stop would had been the local news TV station, my sightings were that good and I would have been paid for one-time rights.

Imagine seeing a small, wispy cloud and right in the center is a "parked" white orb giving the impression that it's "hiding" behind the transparent cloud. You keep your eye on it while you fish for your camcorder that's in your backpack, you turn it on, aim it and shoot still seeing the orb with your left eye but you see nothing but dark in the viewfinder with your right eye. You freak and you have to use both eyes to see what's wrong and I see that I left the infrared filter in place when I used it to shoot through my window in the night's darkness. As soon as I took my left eye off the orb, when I looked again seconds later, it was gone! A solid sighting that if I had taped it the local news would have put it on the air without derisiveness. That's as far as I would have gone and wouldn't have bothered to report it to any organization as they are inundated with similar footage and they just store it away.

He wasn't bothered and apart from those of us who have an interest, I imagine the same could be said for others.
Unfortunate, but unless there's some cash inducement or something, some folk just don't care to be involved.

I could be wrong but that's just my take.

People are just too busy paying attention to life and as long as whatever may happen doesn't affect them personally they'll just go on their way. It's us UFOlogists that will get excited and if possible record it to share with others. There's a time for everything.

originally posted by: ManInAsia
I don't agree that the 90s was Ufology's heyday.
I've read Ruppelt's book 'the estimate of the situation' and it was clear from that that UFOs were really a big deal back then!
That's obviously related to the space race and the cold war between US and USSR. In the 50s there was even a network of civilian observers whose job was simply to scan the sky and report any anomalous phenomena or sightings to the government. Some of the sightings were classified technology, such as the blackbird, then you had rocket re-entries and launches, and probably CIA set-ups to cover real secret aircraft testing. Many sightings were of green fireballs which were probably meteorites.
Of course you also had blue book in the 50s and the condon report in the 60s.
After the 50s and 60s the classic UFO sightings tail off fairly quickly and it becomes very much a wacky pursuit.

The '90s were UFOlogy's heyday because that's when television ran amok with every network competing with the others to bring us the latest news which were coming out of the woodwork with more visible UFO activity and anyone who could got involved mostly as hosts/hostesses. Imagine, Joan Rivers interviewing David Jacobs and some abduction victims. Or Ronald Reagan's son interviewing 2 UFO celebrities whose names escape me. Cristina over on the Spanish station interviewing Jaime Maussan and a couple of UFO videographers, and on, an on.

We didn't have that UFO excitement in the previous decades except in the '80s when cattle mutilations started to be reported. I met a lady that somehow found out I had a new-fangled VCR and asked me if I could play her videotape of cattle mutilations but she requested that no one else be present! I thought, what am I going to see with such secrecy? I saw a nascent Linda Moulton Howe with some interesting footage but hardly worth the secrecy I had been asked to observe.

It was in the '90s when all hell broke loose with the new camcorders capturing UFOs all over the world and then the coming together or like minded enthusiasts on the, again, nascent Internet. There was no end to it. Well, in the early 2000s the excitement petered out and UFO shows and documentaries were no longer needed, except for a few holdouts.

a reply to: klassless

You seem to have quite a few things happen that suggest you were known in relation to ufology since the 80s. Would we know you?

I figured that's all that you quoted and it's incorrect. Find where I said that, put quote marks at the beginning of the quote and at the end. Then present it here to further embarrass me. You have your opinion and I'm not going to continue defending mine.

Ok, exact quote then - and I guess to be precise, in your opinion, you have debunked everything you have bothered spending time on debunking:

When I debunk, trust me, it's worth debunking and I've always been successful. Name a case I debunked and failed.

So.. not "everything," all inclusive to the UFO world.. but yes everything, as it pertains to you. I am not attacking, but you can hardly come traipsing in making grandiose comments about how any UFO case you touch is debunked by you every single time, and not expect to be challenged on that claim. : )

And if you don't mind answering this question specifically: If eyewitness testimony regarding a sighting is directly at odds with you have decided is the solution to that sighting, how do you handle that? And I am talking about not eyewitness accounts where they saw a fuzzy dot - but rather a large, close object. In this case, so close that there is no way it could have been confused for a flight of high flying jets.

originally posted by: fleabit

I figured that's all that you quoted and it's incorrect. Find where I said that, put quote marks at the beginning of the quote and at the end. Then present it here to further embarrass me. You have your opinion and I'm not going to continue defending mine.

Ok, exact quote then - and I guess to be precise, in your opinion, you have debunked everything you have bothered spending time on debunking:

When I debunk, trust me, it's worth debunking and I've always been successful. Name a case I debunked and failed.

So.. not "everything," all inclusive to the UFO world.. but yes everything, as it pertains to you. I am not attacking, but you can hardly come traipsing in making grandiose comments about how any UFO case you touch is debunked by you every single time, and not expect to be challenged on that claim. : )

And if you don't mind answering this question specifically: If eyewitness testimony regarding a sighting is directly at odds with you have decided is the solution to that sighting, how do you handle that? And I am talking about not eyewitness accounts where they saw a fuzzy dot - but rather a large, close object. In this case, so close that there is no way it could have been confused for a flight of high flying jets.

Get away from your personal bias and character attacks and deal with the thread and how great it was in the 1990s to be interested in UFOs. Were you around then?

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Truly disturbing and hard to explain. I'd add Broadhaven school to that list.

I have no answers.

Get away from your personal bias and character attacks and deal with the thread and how great it was in the 1990s to be interested in UFOs. Were you around then?

I am responding to your comments in this thread. I didn't attack your character - YOU made the comments about debunking anything you decided to put your mind to debunk. No, I won't let that sit in any thread here. This is the aliens and UFO forum on a conspiracy site. Sorry if you feel your thread, simply because you created it, exempts you from scrutiny. It's obvious what your agenda is.. and you brought up the Phoenix lights, and they did occur in the 90s.

And you won't even answer a simple question about eyewitness testimony. Why? I guess because you know there is no answer you can give that makes sense, and like all die-hard debunkers, you will ignore anything that weakens your opinions.