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Is there a Gender Pay Gap issue in the West?

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posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: Kester

I often use a computer.
Haven't used a shovel (at work) in a very long time.
edit on 9/8/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 02:24 AM
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My understanding is that when you adjust for factors such as maternity leave and career type distribution the pay gap shrinks considerably (down to a few percentage points) but still remains.

So is not really accurate to say the gap is a myth, however is not as bad as sometimes portrayed.

I do however have an instinctive reaction to disagree with any article that is headlined common sense when discussing a complicated issue.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 02:35 AM
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I think the pay gap is an over exaggeration.

I do believe that some people even men are working for less than others since they have not made a good deal and I think humanity as a society should be beyond random dealings when you give up part of your life to contribute.

So I am for merit based income where how hard the work is both physically and mentally on average decide the pay.

I think the pay gap is real if you think of different sectors where how hard the work is vs how well it is paid. And because women are a majority in those sectors even if they provide a service that is hard then they are not paid enough compared to what a contribution to society it was.

But then I think humanity will have to create another system of resource distribution soon since the need for people will be less due to robots taking over the work.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 03:12 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle




I think the pay gap is an over exaggeration.

I think that's redundant.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 03:12 AM
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I believe Mr. Sowell can speak for me.




posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 03:51 AM
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Why would anyone employ a male if females were cheaper?

I guess corporations just care so much.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 04:11 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454




I believe Mr. Sowell can speak for me.


Why would you want somebody else to form your opinions for you ?...

Agreeing with a POV is one thing having someone speak for you is another beast entirely ....



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 05:25 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: crazyewok



But at some point wages (especially in my sector ) rise depending on experience, skill learned and time of the job.

So, merit based. I'm all for that.
I've worked with women who were just as good, if not better, than me but earned less.



I simply do not believe you. Why did this business not hire all women and just pay them all this? Why Pay men more to do a lesser job?

The gender pay Gap myth has been debunked over and over again. If anything it's an outcome Gap and there are many factors that are involved in that nothing to do with sexism.
edit on 8-9-2016 by TheBulk because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2016 by DrumsRfun because: snipped personal dig



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 05:59 AM
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Here's my take.

I don't think that there is a pay gap.I'm the only male in my department and in general I think men work a lot harder than women. The women I work with take more breaks, take more time off, schedule themselves out for misc appointments, take much longer lunch breaks, bring their personal lives to work and are hardly ever on time and even though I'm one of the newer people there they ask me for advice/help (essentially treat me as the boss) all the time. When something goes wrong at the clinic they call me, not our female manager.
edit on 8-9-2016 by avgguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
My understanding is that when you adjust for factors such as maternity leave and career type distribution the pay gap shrinks considerably (down to a few percentage points) but still remains.

So is not really accurate to say the gap is a myth, however is not as bad as sometimes portrayed.

I do however have an instinctive reaction to disagree with any article that is headlined common sense when discussing a complicated issue.


Do you have evidence that people are paid less due to their gender alone? Yes or no?

Because THAT is what the supposed gender gap implies.

It's not really that complicated at all. The argument is that women are paid less than men for doing the same work. Which is untrue when you factor in other variables such as hours worked and leave taken. (Because we all know that hours worked and leave taken have no bearing on pay, right?)


edit on 8/9/2016 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Misterlondon

Everyone has the same chance..
Easy to say. Whether or not it is the practice is another matter.
But it seems the gap is not limited to "the trades."
www.wsj.com...

Maybe it's different in the UK.



It's the same in the UK although it's been getting better for years. There's a good article here.

Our Office of National Statistics release annual studies and noted (pdf page2):


The education sector has similar differences. Female academics tend to see close to 11% less salary than males. The same kind of gap exists in teaching too with female NQTs receiving lower salaries than male equals. This makes the maternity defence/argument redundant when NQTs are brand new to teaching and haven't yet had any maternity leave.

Pay rises are incremental as well being weighted against performance. Let's say Person A starts their career with £1200 more PA than Person B. If their career trajectories are parallel, A will always be better paid than B for doing the same job.

It's interesting on a different level too. UK schools have a third of female head teachers. It'd be a worthwhile study to see if a gender pay gap exists in their schools.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:27 AM
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It's a dead issue. A small group of people, feminist keep perpetuating the 77 cents on the dollar lie. Sowell debunked this in the 1980's.

Great points so far, here are some more points:

women tend to marry someone older, This older person likely has a more established career because of more experience, promotions, education, etc. Thus if his job gets moved for whatever reason his job would take priority. the breadwinner is less likely to be running the kids around than the other spouse.

Business owner wise almost 2/3 are men to just above 1/3 for women. Sadly this number may be even more skewed in favor of women because many married couples will give the woman a higher percentage ownership in order to receive all the special benefits. For example the DBE(disadvantaged Business Enterprise program) helps level the playing field and gives assistance to any company who is not majority owned by a white male.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:31 AM
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originally posted by: jellyrev
It's a dead issue. A small group of people, feminist keep perpetuating the 77 cents on the dollar lie. Sowell debunked this in the 1980's.

Great points so far, here are some more points:

women tend to marry someone older, This older person likely has a more established career because of more experience, promotions, education, etc. Thus if his job gets moved for whatever reason his job would take priority. the breadwinner is less likely to be running the kids around than the other spouse.

Business owner wise almost 2/3 are men to just above 1/3 for women. Sadly this number may be even more skewed in favor of women because many married couples will give the woman a higher percentage ownership in order to receive all the special benefits. For example the DBE(disadvantaged Business Enterprise program) helps level the playing field and gives assistance to any company who is not majority owned by a white male.




Well put ..worth quoting...


Statistics and reality are like opposing forces
..sometimes..



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:32 AM
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a reply to: Phage




Why? Preferential hiring practices?


becsue some jobs are geared towards guys more. SKileld elctricians, construction managers, Lorry drivers etc. Women are more than welcome to train in these fieldsm they just choose not too. If they did, they would get the same pay based on their expereince.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:35 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!


It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: ScepticScot
My understanding is that when you adjust for factors such as maternity leave and career type distribution the pay gap shrinks considerably (down to a few percentage points) but still remains.

So is not really accurate to say the gap is a myth, however is not as bad as sometimes portrayed.

I do however have an instinctive reaction to disagree with any article that is headlined common sense when discussing a complicated issue.


Do you have evidence that people are paid less due to their gender alone? Yes or no?

Because THAT is what the supposed gender gap implies.

It's not really that complicated at all. The argument is that women are paid less than men for doing the same work. Which is untrue when you factor in other variables such as hours worked and leave taken. (Because we all know that hours worked and leave taken have no bearing on pay, right?)



You might want to try reading my post again.

The unadjusted figure given is normally I believe about 15-20%. The adjusted figure after the things you mention is about half that. ( Going from memory so not exactly).

The reasonable conclusion seems to be that there is a pay gap but that it is not as high as often reported.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!


It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.


True but kind of depends on companies never doing anything illegal or pushing the boundaries of the law to see what they can get away with.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!


It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.


And I think that wrong.

Pay should be merit based.

If a female has spent more time off work sbe should get paid less.



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 06:49 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!


It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.


And I think that wrong.

Pay should be merit based.

If a female has spent more time off work sbe should get paid less.


Pay is pretty rarely merit based in the real world.

Do you think there is direct link to time off and ability?



posted on Sep, 8 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: crazyewok
I dont think there is.

Not when you factor in pregnancy.

Sorry women but if you choose to get knocked up and leave work for a year you need to accept its going to have a career impact.

Its not fair to to expect the same pay and promotions when you dont spend as much time in the job.


Want a career with equal pay? Then dont have kids.

Pregnancy is a choice. One everyone else shouldn't have to pay for!


It's illegal in the UK to offer the same job to a male and female on exactly the same conditions except a different rate of pay to the female based on her gender. There are no it's and buts, if you do that you get taken to court.


And I think that wrong.

Pay should be merit based.

If a female has spent more time off work sbe should get paid less.


Well, you are entitled to that view, but the equal pay act means that's not the case in reality. I refer you to the film and stage play 'Made in Dagenham' for more background on this. Historically women were paid less for doing the same job because employers could get away with it.

What about if the man smokes and the woman doesn't, therefore potentially meaning he is more likely to need to time off if he should develop lung cancer?

What about if the woman is a lesbian with no intention of having a child (or heterosexual with no intention of having a child)?

What about if the man is a widower and in sole charge of children?

None of those should affect how much you get paid. They may or may not affect who you decide to offer the job to, but even then you are on less than solid ground.



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