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The Sabbath

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posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
LadyV, yes you have the right to believe what ever you wish to believe.
God gave you that choice,.............


Keeping the Sabbath is simple..........do no WORK. That is toil....labor related to your job.

The "Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". JC.......


As someone stated above..how do you know Sunday is the Sabbath? I thought it was common knowledge now that it would actually of been Saturday...and as also stated above...were there names of the week when god created the world?




posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by DrHoracid
LadyV, yes you have the right to believe what ever you wish to believe.
God gave you that choice,.............


Keeping the Sabbath is simple..........do no WORK. That is toil....labor related to your job.

The "Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". JC.......


As someone stated above..how do you know Sunday is the Sabbath? I thought it was common knowledge now that it would actually of been Saturday...and as also stated above...were there names of the week when god created the world?


The Sabbath is SATURDAY.

Israelites did keep track of the days of the week. After Moses, they understood very well which day was what. They keep Saturday, Christ kept Saturday even after his death. It is historical knowledge that Saturday is the 7th day. The Jews kept the Sabbath and still do unto this very day.

History meets the bible and meets the present day.

However, there are more Sabbaths than just the 7th day. There are "high" holy days.......Passover and others.

[edit on 25-1-2005 by DrHoracid]



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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By Hebrew tradition only the seventh day has a name. The other days are simply refered to by number.

Sunday: יום ראשון (Yom Rishon) = 1st day
Monday: יום שני (Yom Sheni) = 2nd day
Tuesday: יום שלישי (Yom Shlishi) = 3rd day
Wednesday: יום רביעי (Yom Revi’i) = 4th day
Thursday: יום חמישי (Yom Chamishi) = 5th day
Friday: יום שישי (Yom Shishi) = 6th day
Saturday: יום שבת (Yom Shabat) = rest day, sabbath



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Hello, Lady V:

I notice by your name it says Seeker of truth and knowledge, or something to that effect. I may have it backwards.

So you want to know how Sunday is the Sabbath? Well, it's not the Sabbath and even those who keep Sunday should know this.

First, the sabbath day cycle was established and blessed by Yahweh in the first week of this Adamic world-age. From that point this seven-day cycle started and has always continued. Several times in the Scirptures Yahweh confirms this same seven-day cycle. He confirms it in the flood in Genesis. Before the Israelites reached Mt. Sinai, Yahweh re-confirmed the same cycle to them again by the giving of the manna bread from heaven in Exod. 16:1-30. When a few of them disobyed Yahweh and broke the sabbath, he even asked them how long would they refuse to keep his commandments and laws, meaning that these previously existed. They had forgotten Yahweh's commandments, etc., while they were slaves in Egypt.

BTW, Abraham kept Yahweh's commandments, See Gen. 26:1-5, esp. v. 5. And when the Scriptures say commandments, they are talking about all 10 of them collectively.

Now, the Jews and all of those who have followed the Jewish religion had observed the sabbath day even though they keep a modified form in that they start the sabbath regulations early on Friday afternoon before sundown when the Sabbath begins. The messiah kept the same day as the Jewish religious leaders, but he didn't keep their manmade modified form. He kept the scriptural form. The followers of Yahushua, even after his death, also kept the same sabbath, meaning the 7th day.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Tiza
Hello, Lady V:



So you want to know how Sunday is the Sabbath? Tiza

Hello Tiza.....I do know that it is actually Saturday...I was trying to get it across, apparently unsuccessfully, to some others that it really is not on Sunday....



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by sntx
By Hebrew tradition only the seventh day has a name. The other days are simply refered to by number.

Sunday: יום ראשון (Yom Rishon) = 1st day
Monday: יום שני (Yom Sheni) = 2nd day
Tuesday: יום שלישי (Yom Shlishi) = 3rd day
Wednesday: יום רביעי (Yom Revi’i) = 4th day
Thursday: יום חמישי (Yom Chamishi) = 5th day
Friday: יום שישי (Yom Shishi) = 6th day
Saturday: יום שבת (Yom Shabat) = rest day, sabbath
That is nice that they applied numbers and names, but that is not the answer to the question I ask. So I will be more specific and provide information that should allow you to answer my question.

The Sabbath day, every 7th day then, is to this day still celebrated from sunset to sunset, correct? The guide for which is given here as it speaks to the day of atonement:

Leviticus 23:32…even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.

Now then, let us apply the summer solstice, unless you want to say man was made in Uganda or some such equatorial country, and say that is the first sabbath, and let us for the sake of argument give it a day, of reference for ourselves, June 18, 2005, as observed by Jews in D.C

Sunset will begin at 8:36pm, representative of the 7th day, start over day 1 will begin precisely 24 hours after that on sunset at 8:36pm. We refer to this day as day no 8 since creation. Sunset beings exactly 24 hours later at 8:36pm, and know this day to be 9th day after creation. God’s time frame has not been adjusted at all. However, sunset on the 10th day begins at 8.37pm, one minute longer than the previous time frames. The Sabbath is still being celebrated on the 7th day, despite the one minute delay. By the 28th day into creation, sunset begins at 8:35, one minute before the day before Sabbath or 6th day actually ends, and you are celebrating Sabbath on the wrong day. By August 30, or the 80th day of creation, the sun sets at 7:41pm, and you are still beginning the Sabbath on the wrong day. By September 2nd, the sun sets at 7:37pm, The Sabbath is still started on the sixth day and ends before the actual time frame the 7th day expires..

How then can you tell me it has always been the 7th day, when in fact as you see above the last hour of the 6th day is then referred to the Sabbath? And what did Adam and Eve have to assist them with this keen observance?

You may find the times I provided here for reference
aa.usno.navy.mil...



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
That is nice that they applied numbers and names, but that is not the answer to the question I ask.


My post was not an answer to your question. I was responding to LadyV's post, the first one on this page.

I honestly don't understand your question, so I will leave it to someone who does. It seems to me that sundown to sunset is a better way to count a day than going by a set amount of time. It looks like you are just attempting to confuse the issue because a sunset to sunset cycle isn't hard to keep track of, but of course I could be completely misunderstanding you.



Steve



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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Somewhereinbetween,

In my honest opinion, you're making no sense at all. I don't really understand why you're trying to make it so hard. Obviously when it's sundown in Israel, it's not in the US. Is this what you're trying to say?

The reckoning of a day is from sundown to sundown no matter where you are on this earth. However, if you're in a place like Alaska where things are quite a bit different, you would use the nearest sundown place near you.

Again, it's sundown to sundown even if from one day to the next the sun goes down later each day. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever. There are reasons why Yahweh starts a day at sundown at this time anyway, but I will not go into it, especially on this message board.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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Tiza to you and Sntx.

Sorry if you are confused, it is very evident to me that the exact timing cannot be kept by that measurement, and therefore when a day ends and another begins is distorted. Unless solstices and the ensuing variation of the length of daylight did not exist in the ME at creation so that every day, day after day had exactly 12 hours of night and 12 of day, then you would be correct.

And it has nothing to do with where you are per se, I presumed that you would notice was the default on the link.

Perhaps someday a scientific mind will explain it to you.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 02:36 PM
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Hello, Somewhereinbetween:

First off, I'm not a scientist, astronomer, etc., even though the Scriptures are packed full of science. I do appreciate science, astronomy, history, archaeology, etc., and Yahweh is the master scientist. But what I'm saying is, I don't profess to be one.

Now, I can't think of anyplace in the Scriptures where it states that the day has to be an exact 24 hours except right off the top of my head, Yahushua the messiah asked: Are there not 12 hours in the day? But this was a prophetic question.

A day starts at sundown. The time of this is called ereb (twilight). It counts from one ereb to the next ereb. This does not mean it's exactly a 24-hour period of time at all. Doesn't even specify that. Now, if I even referred to that period of time as a 24-hour day, that's just my way of saying the full period from one ereb to the next ereb, which may not be an exact 24 hours.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Ashlar
many of us are forgeting that jesus and his apostles frequently broke the sabbath

MATT 12
1
At that time Jesus was going through a field of grain on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat them.
2
When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "See, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do on the sabbath."
3
He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry,
4
how he went into the house of God and ate the bread of offering, which neither he nor his companions but only the priests could lawfully eat?
5
Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests serving in the temple violate the sabbath and are innocent?
6
I say to you, something greater than the temple is here.
7
If you knew what this meant, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned these innocent men.
8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath."



They did no break the Sabbath. Jesus challenged the Pharisees and their man made rules concerning the Sabbath.


Deuteronomy 4:2


"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."



Romans 7:12


"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."



Matthew 5:18-19

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."




.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

The Sabbath day, every 7th day then, is to this day still celebrated from sunset to sunset, correct? The guide for which is given here as it speaks to the day of atonement:

Leviticus 23:32…even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.

Now then, [...], and you are still beginning the Sabbath on the wrong day. By September 2nd, the sun sets at 7:37pm



No.

The Jewish day for religious purposes begins in the evening on sunset or when three stars become visible.

For calendrical purposes the day begins at 6 p.m. Jerusalem time.

(The "days" of creation have not not necessarily been 24-hour days - a 24-hour day would be meaningless until the creation of the sun on the fourth "day")

The Jewish day also has 24 hours - but they are not equal. The hours are divided into two groups: the 12 day-hours and the 12 night-hours.

This means that the hours are not equal length:

Sometimes on a long summer day a Jewish hour can be 72 minutes long, whereas on a winter day, the hour can only be 48 minutes long.

The subdivisions of the hour are also different too. Each hour is divided into 1080 chelakim (singular: chelak), the minute has 18 chelakim.

And:

The Jewish year is never uniform. It can vary from 353, 354, 355, 383, 384, or 385 days.


Rebekka



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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What is a day, much less the sabbath? What I mean is that the continuing process of day and night is only termed as "Monday through Sunday" by humans, mostly for the institution of ceremony and, in modern day history, business practices. If you think about it, there is nothing to differentiate any given day aside from are conditioned actions.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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Riwka writes: The "days" of creation have not not necessarily been 24-hour days - a 24-hour day would be meaningless until the creation of the sun on the fourth "day"

Hi, Riwka:

I would agree that the days were not necessarily 24 hours; could have been a little less, a little more. And another thing is, the earth has changed many times since the creation WEEK. Let's just take a month, which was in the Scriptures 30 days, never more, never less, at one time. The earth has been through a tilt at various times in this world-age, meaning what we're in now, the adamic world-age. One time this happened in Joshua's long day, another time with Hezekiah, and this will go back to the original way it was in the future, meaning 30-day months. If an asteriod or meteor gets too close to this earth, it can definitely upset it even though it doesn't hit it. All it has to do is get close enough. And consider the previous great earthquake, which caused the earth to ring like a bell, so to speak. Imagine a couple of those earthquakes hitting the earth at the same time on opposite sides of the earth!!! It can happen too.

Now, from my various studies, I do not agree with the Judaism method of counting months, time and reckoning what time the sabbath starts. It's because of the fence that they built around the Torah where they start it early. Most of what people are taught in modern-day times is directly from Pharisaism and this is incorrect. Judaism and Pharisaism are the exact same thing, it's just that Judaism is the modern-day name. I do not agree that they have the correct method of keeping the sabbath nor the feast days. I do think that many people consider them the authority and simply do so because these people don't know any different and think that they're a very ancient group, which they're not.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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MemoryShock writes: What is a day, much less the sabbath? What I mean is that the continuing process of day and night is only termed as "Monday through Sunday...


Hi, MemoryShock:

What is a day? In Genesis, it tells us that a day is from ereb to ereb, meaning sundown to sundown. For one thing, the ancients were not ignorant as many people think of them as such. As a matter of fact, their brains were larger than ours and they were in excellent health. We are actually degrading as time goes on. Every generation is less.

Think of it this way. Adam, our first parent, was an original copy. Every time someone is born, he's/she's then a copy of the previous copy. If you are copying in a copy machine and only copying a copy each time, you'll see that the copies get less and less. This is what we are, basically.

Then you must consider our first parents, Adam & Eve. Even though they sinned and were banished from the Garden of Eden, they were still Yahwehists. Just study the wording and Genesis, Revelations, and you'll see that the Garden of Eden is a parable of New Jerusalem.

The Garden of Eden was a sacred place, which really had a holy of holies. The eloahim walked there, i.e., the angels of Yahweh. Adam was a priest in the Garden of Eden. If Adam was a priest, do you think that Adam would have forgotten the sabbath day, or any day for that matter, since Yahweh blessed the sabbath and made it sacred, which in itself was a priestly act? I mean, he talked to Yahweh (preexistent Yahushua the messiah) on a day-to-day basis. As a matter of fact, Adam would know every day since he kept the sabbath day. And as I said before, the sabbath cycle was started then.

People just somehow assume that this cycle has been forgotten by a bunch of idiots who couldn't count. Fact is, we are idiots today. We can't do half the stuff they did. We are lower, not higher on the mental level.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 09:16 PM
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Riwka writes: The "days" of creation have not not necessarily been 24-hour days - a 24-hour day would be meaningless until the creation of the sun on the fourth "day"

Hi, Riwka:

Forgot to say, the luminaries were not created on the fourth day. They were made to appear, i.e., they already existed. Study the Hebrew. The creation week is a remaking of what was here, except on the 6th day Adam was created, which makes this the adamic creation. Of course, the animals were created. So Adam & the animals were created, but the sun and moon and stars already existed. The first line of Genesis tells us that there was a previous time. Well, that's one place that tells us that anyway. Then the earth became tohu and bohu, wasted and wild (devastated) after a major castrophe before the adamic creation, possibly an asteriod/meteor and destroyed the previous creation. What world-age preceded the adamic creation? The dinosaur age, which adam-kind was not a part of.

Tiza



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by RiwkaNo.

The Jewish day for religious purposes begins in the evening on sunset or when three stars become visible.
Okay, if you wish to get technical about explaining when Shabbat starts and ends as per the custom. It starts at sunset, and concludes within 30-40 minutes after sunset the next day or when three stars are seen. Someone had eyes able to see through cloudy nights 5,764 years ago and always find three stars? That is not the issue however. My position in fact has never been adequately addressed, all I get is it starts at this time, ends at this time, and it is Friday/Saturday. Not a sole has told me how Adam and Eve knew to celebrate same.

Aside from no one absolutely knowing that Friday/Saturday was in fact the 7th day, the basis for a 7th day claim makes no sense. God created and worked on 6 days, and it said he rested on the 7th. Technically then as we are not told he created anything since, he is still resting and you are still in the 7th day. We know full well he created 7 days, don't we? In fact according to the Hebrew calendar, he has created over 2.1 million days and counting. So the idea he rested on the 7th is ludicrous.


(The "days" of creation have not not necessarily been 24-hour days - a 24-hour day would be meaningless until the creation of the sun on the fourth "day")
Exactly! His days of creation were something other than the sun rising and the moon setting, so to assume that a day came to be known with the creation of the sun is not only incorrect, but goes to also being meaningless as this was just a fractured attempt by man to create a sabbath day.


The Jewish day also has 24 hours - but they are not equal. The hours are divided into two groups: the 12 day-hours and the 12 night-hours.
We know this, but they did not supposedly know this before Abraham travelled to Egypt, since it was Egypt that brought us the two 12 hour periods, in fact the minutes of the hour we use. And this goes back to my point on the equinox, where you know full well that days have significantly varied hours of light and darkness, and therefore, no one can say they start Shabbat on Shabbat, or finish Shabbat on Shabbat. Since this is true, it has been violated, and it has been violated by hours on certain days by starting it on a day of work, or ending it on a day of work. then we have lunar and solar eclipses to contend with as well. But 5,000 years ago, no one knew this did they? This then also addresses your hourly reference which as you can see has meaning only to us, but nothing to man before Moses is given the order. In fact is it not so that the only way one can conclude that the day of rest might be equivalent to a Friday was because of Ex.16:27?

What you also fail to understand is that to say God created his works in days as measured by sunsets/moonrising/three stars in the sky, is also ludicrous, for that would mean that while he had already finished creating the earth as far as that measurement goes over in the ME, he would not have finished that part of the earth 9 hours behind.

But thank you for the lesson in the Hebrew calendar anyway, if you visit the thread entitled; Giza: what is the Egyptan government hiding, you will find I know a lot about it.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by Tiza

i.e., they already existed. Study the Hebrew.



This are the very first lines of the written Tora.

It begins with (of course): In the beginning. The hebrew word for in the beginnig is BERE# (and that's how we call the first parasha):



(1) bere# bara eholim et hashamajim ve'et ha'eretz:

(2) ve haaretz hayetah tohu vahou veshoshech al peney tehom ve ruach elohim merafechet al-peney hamayim

(3) ve ha omer elohim yehi-or wa yehi or. ......



I do not know how the words of the the tora are translated to your language - but parasha BERE# is how haShem created one after another thing that ever existed.


Rebekka

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Aside from no one absolutely knowing that Friday/Saturday was in fact the 7th day, the basis for a 7th day claim makes no sense. God created and worked on 6 days, and it said he rested on the 7th. Technically then as we are not told he created anything since, he is still resting and you are still in the 7th day.



Somewhereinbetween,

G'd said "Shamor we sachor" - I do not exactly know how you translate this to your language but it means "keep and think" of the shabbat.

This mitzwa is only for those who accepted the tora (jews) - and since he said "wa jehi erev wa jehi woker: jom echad" ( this means: it became evening, it became morning: a day) it is clear, how a "DAY" has to start and end.


Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

So the idea he rested on the 7th is ludicrous.


it is not an idea, but TORA. BERE# (Gen) 2,3.


Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

in fact the minutes of the hour we use.



But this is, what I tried to explain to you: The minutes YOU use are meaningless. The jewish hour is not absolute. It is NOT devided in minutes - the hour is relative.


Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

But 5,000 years ago, no one knew this did they?



Of course, at least one knew: the creator.

The Hebrew calendar ( which incorporates both the cycle of the sun and the moon into one useable calendar [the solar cycle retains the importance in regard to the measuring of the agricultural times and the lunar cycle is used for the marking of the festivals]) is NOT an invention of the Jews.


Rebekka


[edit on 31-1-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Riwka writes: (1) bere# bara eholim et hashamajim ve'et ha'eretz:

Hi, Riwka:

Things are not always as they first seem to be.

The first two words in Gen. 1:1: be-ra#h, in the beginning or starting time. This reveals a previous time before Gen. 1:2. How long a period, I do not know. But be-ra#h was not the creation of our present olam (world-age) which I called the adamic world-age. You have to put everything in the Scriptures together line upon line, precept upon precept, a little here, a little there to get the story.

One thing would be is to search what happened "be-ra#h," what was created then, and yes, the planet earth was created then. What existed before "the beginning" would be important, for example, father Yahweh existed in a time called perpetuity because he's just always existed, he existed before there was a beginning.

Gen. 1:2, And the earth (hitah; became) tohu and bohu (wasted and empty; ruined) and darkness was upon the face of the tahum (oceans). And the ruach of eloahim hovered over the face of the waters.

In Gen. 1:2, it talks about the earth had become tohu and bohu. In other words, the earlier heavens and the earth had been utterly destroyed by Yahweh himself which occurred sometime before the first day of our present adamic world-age. By saying "utterly destroyed," I mean the earth itself was still here, just it was devastated. Then Yahweh renewed the face of the earth and created (bara) the animals and Adam...

To find out what happened takes a large amount of time, which I do not have. But Scriptures do speak of the previous world-age. A lot is recorded in Job and in it he talks about what existed in the previous world-age.

Tiza



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